List Mgmt. Trade & F/A - 2017/2018 - Refreshed (cont in part 2)

[MagpieJoel]

I didn’t watch the Cats v Demons last night, but I’ve always been a fan of Sam Frost. He’s not the worst player. Agile and big. Disposalthe issue. How did he go last night?

I wouldn’t mind him for a cheap 3rd rounder. We tend to do good with Melbourne players. He could take the big giant forwards. 194 cms.

Hawkins kicked 7 on him, didn't he?

 

[Scodog10]

Hawkins kicked 7 on him, didn't he?

O McDonald. Frost almost won the game back for them with his last 10 minutes when Geelong were isolating Hawkins.

 

[sr36]

What price are you willing to pay for that? As you’ve no doubt realised that is essentially Dunn so where do you draw the line on bringing in a 26yo clone of your current FB?

I’m open to it, but nowhere near as open as some it seems who are running with lines like “I’d prefer May over Lynch”! What I want to weigh up is whether investing a 1st round pick + into May is more beneficial than giving McLarty, Dunn and Moore a further 24 months?

I reckon Shaz is a couple of years of work in the gym away from being that player, so I'd probably hold off on paying a lot for May. I don't think our teens first rounder will get it done. It also depends on Lynch. If we get him, Mihocek may be able to do it whilst Shaz develops and Dunn recovers.

 

[Chrispiesssss]

Hawkins kicked 7 on him, didn't he?

O McDonald. Frost almost won the game back for them with his last 10 minutes when Geelong were isolating Hawkins.

Yea, I watched the “Game Changer” highlights package on the AFL website. Hawkins kicked 6 on McDonald. 1 on Frost.
Frost spoilt the ball in a marking contest. Hawkins managed to crumb it and kicked a goal. Not Frost is fault.

 

[MagpieJoel]

Yea, I watched the “Game Changer” highlights package on the AFL website. Hawkins kicked 6 on McDonald. 1 on Frost.
Frost spoilt the ball in a marking contest. Hawkins managed to crumb it and kicked a goal. Not Frost is fault.

I watched a lot of the game, but wasn't really paying attention to the match up until Hawkins won them the game in the last.

I noticed Frost being caught behind often, so assumed he'd been on him for a while and that's he had been well beaten.

 

[Scodog10]

I reckon Shaz is a couple of years of work in the gym away from being that player, so I'd probably hold off on paying a lot for May. I don't think our teens first rounder will get it done. It also depends on Lynch. If we get him, Mihocek may be able to do it whilst Shaz develops and Dunn recovers.

I’m not as optimistic on Shaz. Don’t get me wrong he gives off a Hurnesque vibe in one sense as a real rock back there, but I’m not holding out much hope on his bodyshape changing much from here.

Projecting into the future he feels like your atypical 3rd tall defender sitting on the likes of M McGovern, Silvagni, Stringer, Membrey etc. it’s just a shame we haven’t been able to get the small mix right. I think Quaynor will be super important to how we go long term. It’s tantalising to think of a mix of Shaz, Howe, Langdon, Moore, Maynard, Crisp, Quaynor and one of the guys we’re talking about is a back 8 group!

 

[sr36]

I’m not as optimistic on Shaz. Don’t get me wrong he gives off a Hurnesque vibe in one sense as a real rock back there, but I’m not holding out much hope on his bodyshape changing much from here.

Projecting into the future he feels like your atypical 3rd tall defender sitting on the likes of M McGovern, Silvagni, Stringer, Membrey etc. it’s just a shame we haven’t been able to get the small mix right. I think Quaynor will be super important to how we go long term. It’s tantalising to think of a mix of Shaz, Howe, Langdon, Moore, Maynard, Crisp, Quaynor and one of the guys we’re talking about is a back 8 group!

I reckon if Shaz doesn't make it as a Tall, his pace will see him struggle to get a match up. If he was playing against us, the only bloke you'd want him to man is Mihocek.

 

[Scodog10]

I reckon if Shaz doesn't make it as a Tall, his pace will see him struggle to get a match up. If he was playing against us, the only bloke you'd want him to man is Mihocek.

Now there’s an interesting discussion! Let’s put him in Richmond’s D50 given we’ve got them this week and I’d back Shaz in against any of our forwards except JDG. What he has over all of our defenders is generally good defensive instincts.

Before it comes he’d cover Cox comfortably unless our midfield decides to start delivering it to him properly which is highly unlikely with Richmond’s pressure on the ball carrier. Realistically they could go with Broad v Cox this week if they wanted and it wouldn’t matter because of how good their mids and fwds are defensively and how their back group works for each other. Heck we did it yesterday with Howe v Brown.

I mentioned Hurn specifically because he’s Shaz with bulk. You’d never put him on a small and you’d be reluctant to use him on a tall so his range of opponents is limited, but I’d have it between him and Rampe as the most reliable defender of the past 5 years (forget Rance he defends grass not players). Overall I don’t believe an AFL defender struggling to get a matchup exists anymore or is considered by AFL coaches.

 

[Apex36]

I reckon if Shaz doesn't make it as a Tall, his pace will see him struggle to get a match up. If he was playing against us, the only bloke you'd want him to man is Mihocek.

3rd tall is his go, playing the same role as Lever did last year at Adelaide. He’s defensive minded enough to look after a man, but knows when to peel off for the intercept. He’ll flourish if we can get some genuine KPD’s

 

[Schraderbrau]

scharenberg is only vulnerable if the ball coming from opposition mids is unpressured. If the opposition mids are under too much pressure to kick to advantage then he's fine because (a) he's very good at reading the ball in the air and (b) when the ball is in play he is one of our more reliable defenders when it comes to not ****ing it up in possession in the back 50.

If our mids are playing poorly then he can't compete because physically he can't match almost any opponent he plays on.

It's all about gameplay though and relying on combination of our midfields ability to put pressure on ball carriers and our defenders ability to zone off and destroy 1v1 contests

 

[sr36]

Overall I don’t believe an AFL defender struggling to get a matchup exists anymore or is considered by AFL coaches.

The Pies have successfully exploited this a few times this year. When there is a medium defender with a defensive weakness, whoever he is manning - WHE, Stephenson or JDG, drags him to the square and he gets done like a dinner when we get it in quick. We'd target Shazs pace if he manned up on one of our mediums.

 

[sr36]

3rd tall is his go, playing the same role as Lever did last year at Adelaide. He’s defensive minded enough to look after a man, but knows when to peel off for the intercept. He’ll flourish if we can get some genuine KPD’s

Most agree with you, but I think Lever and Shaz need to be the plus one or be positioned on an ordinary forward to play '3rd tall' defender, because most teams aren't playing a 3rd tall forward.

 

[Apex36]

Most agree with you, but I think Lever and Shaz need to be the plus one or be positioned on an ordinary forward to play '3rd tall' defender, because most teams aren't playing a 3rd tall forward.

Depends on what you’d regard as a third tall I guess. I’m talking about your medium/talls like Membrey or average tall like Stewart. Guys that don’t pose a massive threat and aren’t the primary target inside 50 who can be peeled off of at the right time to intercept.

 

[Quicky]

If we get Lynch who makes way in our forward 50? Will it be Cox or Mihocek?

 

[Quicky]

With Dunn down for the start of next season what do we do about full back? Do we need to target someone? Or can we fix it from within our list?

 

[ThePhantom777]

Even before Dunn's knee he wasn't going to last forever. I'm sure the club have plans on place. Sounds like we're sniffing around May for this reason. If we can get Lynch this year and May next that would be ideal.

 

[Apex36]

If we get Lynch who makes way in our forward 50? Will it be Cox or Mihocek?

You’d think that Mihocek might go to full back given Dunn will be unavailable at the start of the season.

 

[sr36]

Depends on what you’d regard as a third tall I guess. I’m talking about your medium/talls like Membrey or average tall like Stewart. Guys that don’t pose a massive threat and aren’t the primary target inside 50 who can be peeled off of at the right time to intercept.

The problem is that not many teams are playing 2 talls and a player like this. So often your 'third tall defender' is going to have to man up on someone like Stringer, Stephenson, JDG, someone with genuine pace and elusiveness. Howe and Langdon have the athleticsm. I don't think Shaz can compensate for his lack of athleticism. I think he's far more suited to 2nd tall and using his flight reading ability in marking contests to compensate for his lack of size. His strength will improve and he'll get better in aerial one on one's. His pace on the other hand won't.

 

[Quicky]

You’d think that Mihocek might go to full back given Dunn will be unavailable at the start of the season.

If we look to address it from within the list I think we have four options. We use Moore, we use Mihocek, we use both or we go with mediums. I tend to like the idea of using both Mihocek and Moore. It gives me confidence we don't need to rush out and target a full back and we can fix the problem with our existing list. Mihocek shares a lot of characteristics with Dunn. They're both competitive beasts and both penetrating field kicks. I like the option!

 

[pugsville]

Defense we have a good unit working well together, it's better than just the sum of it's parts. Smart defending, positioning, support from others can make up for perceived physical disadvantage.

regular consistent performers

Howe, Scharenberg, Langdon
Maynard, Crisp

playing right now but ?

Murray, Greenwood

out injured?

Dunn, Moore, Goldsack, Appleby

Developing.

McLarty, Madgen, T Brown, Murphy,

possible NGA/ F/S recuits
Quaynor, Kelly

possible cheap(ish) KPD
Collins, Butts

Hopefully Moore can cover the start of next year. Goldsack could pinch hit, we have McLarty and Madgen in the development, if we need to some insurance we could look at Collins or Butts in the draft late.

I don't think there is much reason to panic and an overly critical need to get a KPD.

 

[jackcass]

What a silly argument. I'm talking about his current footy.

Wow, so a kid with an extra 3 years in the system is better.... Go figure.

 

[jackcass]

Defense we have a good unit working well together, it's better than just the sum of it's parts. Smart defending, positioning, support from others can make up for perceived physical disadvantage.

regular consistent performers

Howe, Scharenberg, Langdon
Maynard, Crisp

playing right now but ?

Murray, Greenwood

out injured?

Dunn, Moore, Goldsack, Appleby

Developing.

McLarty, Madgen, T Brown, Murphy,

possible NGA/ F/S recuits
Quaynor, Kelly

possible cheap(ish) KPD
Collins, Butts

Hopefully Moore can cover the start of next year. Goldsack could pinch hit, we have McLarty and Madgen in the development, if we need to some insurance we could look at Collins or Butts in the draft late.

I don't think there is much reason to panic and an overly critical need to get a KPD.

Midfield and F50 pressure make or break our defence.

 

[jackcass]

If we get Lynch who makes way in our forward 50? Will it be Cox or Mihocek?

Alternatively, why would either lose their spots? Cox is that KPF/ruck option you need. Mihocek has the mobility to slide across to a 3rd tall role freeing up JDG for more midfield time. Either way, it'll be an interesting period watching how it evolves.

 

[Bored_Pie]

Wow, so a kid with an extra 3 years in the system is better.... Go figure.

Wasn't the discussion Champ. Go back and read em.

 

[Apex36]

Wow, so a kid with an extra 3 years in the system is better.... Go figure.

Shhhh, I was hoping he’d work it out himself one day.