List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 3

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_RT_ said:
Quite easy to make Chol look good when you use the criteria that you did...
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It is easy, which is why you chose to change the criteria completely and start comparing apples with oranges instead of simply acknowledging the fact.


_RT_ said:
...most sides aren't fortunate to have a player who is their 3rd string ruck/forward with 20+ games to their name sitting behind a couple of premiership ruckmen.
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We are fortunate, especially given the fact that one of our first two rucks is really injury prone and the other is coming off a major career threatening knee injury. We have one injury prone KPF entering the final years of his career and the other even closer to the end. When you look around at the kind of ruck and KPF depth other clubs have to deal with a worst case scenario (not to mention the retirements we'll have to cope with over the next few years) we're very well off.


_RT_ said:
But when you look at his performances on the field as a 2nd ruck/3rd KPF he isn't that great at all.
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Only if you choose to take the apples and oranges scenario to the ridiculous extremes of comparing him to very seasoned players who aren't their sides' no.1 ruckman because they're such valuable forwards - like Marshall and English.
 
I don’t understand why so many people on here suddenly think we have cash to spend just because houli and Astbury have retired? Houli was forced out which makes me think he was on a bit more then astbury because we were trying to convince Dave to keep going. The claim we got Bolton for “unders” doesn’t mean we have money either, it most likely means we couldn’t afford the extra 200k or so he was being offered by a rival club. Hence he signed for 2 years, wait for free agency (if he’s available for it, I haven’t looked into that) and probably had explained to him, stay at the tigers for now where they’ve done well by you and then if they don’t have the money again by next time we’ll have a good look around to sort the rest of your life out with a large long term deal.
Plus lynch is on a back ended deal, just played his 3rd year of a 7 year deal! That money is going to start to go up and go up high!
All I can see us doing is maybe doing a few pick swaps/upgrades and possibly getting talia on not a lot of coin, lose one or both of cj and chol and potentially lose caddy if he thinks there is more opportunities elsewhere and then delist Garth and/or Miller and egg giving us anywhere between 4-7 picks in the draft
 
Rayzorwire said:
It is easy, which is why you chose to change the criteria completely and start comparing apples with oranges instead of simply acknowledging the fact.

We are fortunate, especially given the fact that one of our first two rucks is really injury prone and the other is coming off a major career threatening knee injury. We have one injury prone KPF entering the final years of his career and the other even closer to the end. When you look around at the kind of ruck and KPF depth other clubs have to deal with a worst case scenario (not to mention the retirements we'll have to cope with over the next few years) we're very well off.

Only if you choose to take the apples and oranges scenario to the ridiculous extremes of comparing him to very seasoned players who aren't their sides' no.1 ruckman because they're such valuable forwards - like Marshall and English.
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Didn't chose to change anything, I looked at it as most would and base it off of the position Chol plays on the ground, not the spot he occupies on a depth chart. As I said if you base it off his position on a depth chart then he is much better than pretty much every other clubs 3rd choice option, because he has had more exposure than most teams 3rd choice options, who are usually kids in their first couple of years and still developing their bodies. Chol has been on the list since 2015, that's 6 seasons and he isn't some skinny inexperienced kid either. He's 200cm & 94kg with 31 games under his belt and he still struggles to run out games even at VFL level.

If Chol leaves our position barely changes, Nankervis Soldo CCJ Ryan and Colina still give us 5 ruckmen on our list, while Lynch Riewoldt CCJ & Ryan provide our KPF depth plus any kid/s we take in the draft.

Right now using your criteria Chol would be 4th in line at a ruck and KPF option behind Nankervis Soldo & CCJ in the ruck and Lynch Riewoldt & CCJ as KPF because unlike them he simply doesn't compete hard enough when he needs to.
 

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_RT_ said:
Right now using your criteria Chol would be 4th in line at a ruck and KPF option behind Nankervis Soldo & CCJ in the ruck and Lynch Riewoldt & CCJ as KPF because unlike them he simply doesn't compete hard enough when he needs to.
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Your statement has zero to do with any criteria I set and the fact is, when finals were on the line Chol was picked and positioned (when both played) ahead of CCJ 100% of the time, so I think it's fair to say that at this stage of their respective careers, the coaching staff/match committee don't share your above assessment. CCJ was played ahead of Chol once all season and it's telling that it occurred in the dead rubber last game of the season after finals were zero possibility.

Given the fact that you've agreed that Chol is at the top of the list when it comes to ruck and KPF 2nd tier depth across the competition (my original and only point) and I was never arguing that he is currently as valuable as the likes of Marshall and English, I can't see there's much else to discuss. :thumbsu:
 
Rayzorwire said:
Your statement has zero to do with any criteria I set and the fact is, when finals were on the line Chol was picked and positioned (when both played) ahead of CCJ 100% of the time, so I think it's fair to say that at this stage of their respective careers, the coaching staff/match committee don't share your above assessment. CCJ was played ahead of Chol once all season and it's telling that it occurred in the dead rubber last game of the season after finals were zero possibility.

Given the fact that you've agreed that Chol is at the top of the list when it comes to ruck and KPF 2nd tier depth across the competition (my original and only point) and I was never arguing that he is currently as valuable as the likes of Marshall and English, I can't see there's much else to discuss. :thumbsu:
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Fact - CCJ & Chol both came into the team against Adelaide in round 11 and played together until CCJ got injured against the Suns in round 16.

Fact - CCJ replaced Chol in the line up in round 21 against North when finals were still in the frame and it was Chol who was brought back in the dead rubber final game once Nankervis was sent for surgery. And in that dead rubber game CCJ outperformed Chol

Based on that I'd suggest it is fair to say that the coaching staff/match committee rate CCJ ahead of Chol.
 
NZ_Tiger said:
I’d disagree. Clubs should be discouraged from sitting I’m at the bottom of the ladder for long rebuilds. If anything the AFL needs to lower free agency and warn clubs to get competitive or get a lesser distribution.

As it stands. Successful clubs have to subsidise rebuilds, through lower gates and reduced viewership.


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Wow you think Clubs need to be discouraged from sitting low on the Ladder? My mouth is agape - I guess the Tiges should have been discouraged a bloody lot of times through 32 years.

Lower Free Agency? I'm gobsmacked mate! But I took some time to think about it. It did my head in - so I went looking for someone else who has done it far better than ever could:

www.statsinsider.com.au

The Stats And Facts: Just How Unfair Is AFL Free Agency?

Every footy fan and their dog has an opinion on free agency – we all agree it’s not working but few if any agree on the best way to fix it. Let’s dive into the numbers and see if we can’t answer a few of the most common questions about free agency.
www.statsinsider.com.au www.statsinsider.com.au

You might atually be right on this one - though the loyal fan in me suspects it going to make me ore unhappy than happy - we shall see. But you make a good point.

That last bit has more history to it than we both probably want to think about.
 
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