List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 4

[lumpinee]

Couldn’t see it happening , would be on a bit of coin , not the player we need to stretch us to pussys bow .

exactly,blokes a battler,not required,if he was any good hed be a starting mid and also u cant compare him to the 2-3 pure mids who dont start
at the dogs,Treloar,Dunkley & Smith,hes not in theyre class

 

[Philth]

Neale weighs 85kg
Serong weighs 85kg
Laird weighs 77kg
Prestia weighs 82kg
Harvey was 75kg and played majority of his career in an era when midfielders weren't as big

Baker weighs 72kg

Baker will get pummelled playing as an inside midfielder full time.

Great avatar.

 

[Rubber Hips]

Liam McBean or Jon Patton.

Who would you choose?

the bean always…100% tiger…the other …suss

 

[RobsJourney]

Baker proved in that GWS game he can play full time as a mid. He beat up a big bodied midfield with a heap of talent that night. No reason he can't play second banana to Prestia.

I really think we need Dusty to go back into the middle predominantly next year.

Look how good we were in 2017 when he played mostly midfield and got 30+ every week. FMD it's stupid this wasn't continued, although we can't really knock the result because we obviously won 2 more flags and made a prelim.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Here is our current midfield group:

Prestia 175cm 82kg
Martin 187cm 91kg
Cotchin 185cm 86kg
Edwards 182cm 78kg
Lambert 178cm 77kg
Bolton 175cm 77kg
McIntosh 191cm 92kg
Graham 181cm 83kg
Pickett 184cm 80kg

I've seen people suggesting that we add Baker into the mix to fix our issues. Baker is 173cm & 72kg.

Now compare that to the 2 midfields lining up on Saturday.

Dogs
Treloar 184cm 89kg
Bontempelli 193cm 93kg
Dunkley 191cm 91kg
Smith 185cm 86kg
Hunter 182cm 81kg
Macrae 192cm 88kg
Liberatore 184cm 85kg

Demons
Harmes 185cm 85kg
Petracca 186cm 97kg
Viney 178cm 86kg
Brayshaw 187cm 91kg
Oliver 187cm 88kg
Langdon 182cm 76kg
Jordan 187cm 82kg

The difference in the make up between the 3 groups stands out like dogs balls. Both the Dogs and Demons have midfielders that are big solidly built units, whereas the majority of our are undersized.

However we have the players on our list already that can change up our mix moving forward. For mine it's imperative that we get these 4 into the line up more often from the start of next season to change up our mix.

Ross 187cm 85kg
RCD 191cm 90kg
Dow 183cm 77kg
Martyn 186cm 82kg

As I believe they hold the key to how our midfield will go from 2022 onwards, hopefully we add another 2 similarly sized midfielder to the list in the draft as well, which will hold us in good stead.

All that says is Group A has proof in the pudding x3
Vs
Group 2 & 3 with a combined total of 2 after Sat

 

[richoatthedisco]

My concern is that current league leaders that have put some space on us have huge bustling mids , fighting back with a squad of 173-177 mids won’t cut it . We need to address this at the draft , baker could play that lambo role , but that’s not really a primary inside mid role

Addressing it at the draft will take 5+ years to pay off. You could argue we already have addressed it at the draft with RCD, Ross and Martyn. But they will all be 22 or under next year, which is why we're linked to mature big-bodied blokes like Dunstan.

Baker proved in that GWS game he can play full time as a mid. He beat up a big bodied midfield with a heap of talent that night. No reason he can't play second banana to Prestia.

He didn't beat them up at all. Hopper and Green dominated for three quarters before they ran out of legs.

Baker laid 6 tackles and got 7 clearances and attended 18 centre bounces. RCD attended 24. Graham attended 11.

I’m not suggesting Baker plays solely as an inside mid. I’m suggesting he becomes part of the midfield rotation and changes as a mid-fwd with Bolton and Martin. If Baker plays more midfield minutes it allows 2 of Bolton, Martin or Baker to be forward - we need to look past Castagna and Aarts … there’s no flag coming if they are both in the team.

We cannot win the flag in 2022 if we don’t inject something new into our midfield… and our youngsters are not ready to influence games to the level required for a flag… Baker is. Other than B Smith Dogs and Demons don’t have any 19-23yo as key midfielders in their GF teams. So no reason why we should expect anything but support roles from our young mids for another 1-2 seasons.

That’s IF we are planning for a flag - if we are out of contention come mid-season 2022 then I’m all for injecting more midfield youth immediately.


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I'm not saying don't give Baker midfield time. I'm saying he's not ever going to be a dominant inside mid. He's like Cerra. But smaller.

As much as we all want Dusty to play perma fwd, reality is, thats probably atleast a year away maybe 2.

I don't want Dusty to play perma fwd.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Ralph is a Tiger supporter though.

Proof

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

100%....wegetpumped reminds me of my kid who spends their pocket money on lollies that they wanted, ate them and cried that they have no money left. We got the rewards and our window is slowly closing.... Its what happens.

Ahhhhh the good ol days where 20cents worth of lollies would make you a heap of friends at school for the day.

 

[_RT_]

All that says is Group A has proof in the pudding x3
Vs
Group 2 & 3 with a combined total of 2 after Sat

True they won 3 flags, but that was when the game was played in a way that suited that midfield group, where it's strengths were best utilised. Those other 2 groups have dominated this season, which has led to both us as supporters and the club understanding that they need to change things up quickly or risk getting left behind.

 

[All Aust]

I know Harmesy personally and he is a fantastic bloke .

Doesn't mind getting down dirty, and, and, and HITS THE SCOREBOARD!!! Not a space guarder, he's a hungry space closer.

 

[RobsJourney]

True they won 3 flags, but that was when the game was played in a way that suited that midfield group, where it's strengths were best utilised. Those other 2 groups have dominated this season, which has led to both us as supporters and the club understanding that they need to change things up quickly or risk getting left behind.

Curious what people think about this, I mean, how are Melbourne much different to us at our recent best? They play a similar sort of brand, defend back deep, pressure on the ball, surge forward. Essendon does the same and had a pretty good season.

We’ll only be left behind if our players are past it, I reckon, not cause we need to adapt to anything. We might be getting close or closer to past it, but we had a shit, tired, hungerless, injury ridden season, that’s the main thing I reckon. We played our best against the Dogs in the second half and the competition got worried again, but we couldn’t maintain it.

Sorta relevant. Do we think Melbourne is that good? I do reckon they’re looking very good, but in perspective who are their big challengers? I don’t see many real quality sides around at the moment.

In 2017 we had to get past Geelong who were probably at their strongest in recent seasons, outside maybe 2019 when we also beat them. Absolute peak GWS, that’s the best they’ve been aside from 2016. And then a crazy good Adelaide who destroyed everyone that year.

I don’t see any other sides near that mark right now. Geelong is nowhere near as good as 2017/19. Port is pretty decent but wouldn’t have them in that 2017 top 4. Brisbane good but again probably not in that 2017 top 4. The Dogs yes but they still have some issues.

I dunno, you can only play what you’re up against but I feel like the overall strength of the league isn’t what it was 2-4 years ago, so I reckon we can bounce back into serious contention.

 

[Bojangles17]

Addressing it at the draft will take 5+ years to pay off. You could argue we already have addressed it at the draft with RCD, Ross and Martyn. But they will all be 22 or under next year, which is why we're linked to mature big-bodied blokes like Dunstan.


He didn't beat them up at all. Hopper and Green dominated for three quarters before they ran out of legs.


I'm not saying don't give Baker midfield time. I'm saying he's not ever going to be a dominant inside mid. He's like Cerra. But smaller.


I don't want Dusty to play perma fwd.

r1 mids can generally impact well before 5y , if they're taking that long , ill give you the tip , they aint ever coming on , Refer serong and brayshaw as an example 1-2y in, swans had a few too . Higgins played well for us in his first year

 

[Bojangles17]

Baker proved in that GWS game he can play full time as a mid. He beat up a big bodied midfield with a heap of talent that night. No reason he can't play second banana to Prestia.

I really think we need Dusty to go back into the middle predominantly next year.

i think we did continue to trial bakes as a mid and it failed to have same impact

 

[Bojangles17]

Curious what people think about this, I mean, how are Melbourne much different to us at our recent best? They play a similar sort of brand, defend back deep, pressure on the ball, surge forward. Essendon does the same and had a pretty good season.

We’ll only be left behind if our players are past it, I reckon, not cause we need to adapt to anything. We might be getting close or closer to past it, but we had a sh*t, tired, hungerless, injury ridden season, that’s the main thing I reckon. We played our best against the Dogs in the second half and the competition got worried again, but we couldn’t maintain it.

Sorta relevant. Do we think Melbourne is that good? I do reckon they’re looking very good, but in perspective who are their big challengers? I don’t see many real quality sides around at the moment.

In 2017 we had to get past Geelong who were probably at their strongest in recent seasons, outside maybe 2019 when we also beat them. Absolute peak GWS, that’s the best they’ve been aside from 2016. And then a crazy good Adelaide who destroyed everyone that year.

I don’t see any other sides near that mark right now. Geelong is nowhere near as good as 2017/19. Port is pretty decent but wouldn’t have them in that 2017 top 4. Brisbane good but again probably not in that 2017 top 4. The Dogs yes but they still have some issues.

I dunno, you can only play what you’re up against but I feel like the overall strength of the league isn’t what it was 2-4 years ago, so I reckon we can bounce back into serious contention.

i watched ESS closely and they weren't that similar to our original style, they loaded up in back half which negated their own scoring ability, MELB style prob closer , very aggressive use of handball , WB do to . leppa explains the nuances of both styles well

 

[All Aust]

We don't need to reinvent players in new positions, especially those that aren't physically able to match it in those positions. What we need to do is back in the likes of RCD Dow Ross & Martyn that we've recruited to play those roles and hit the draft and bring in a couple more draftees to continue to build that next group

Bring on Martyn please.

 

[_RT_]

Curious what people think about this, I mean, how are Melbourne much different to us at our recent best? They play a similar sort of brand, defend back deep, pressure on the ball, surge forward. Essendon does the same and had a pretty good season.

We’ll only be left behind if our players are past it, I reckon, not cause we need to adapt to anything. We might be getting close or closer to past it, but we had a sh*t, tired, hungerless, injury ridden season, that’s the main thing I reckon. We played our best against the Dogs in the second half and the competition got worried again, but we couldn’t maintain it.

Sorta relevant. Do we think Melbourne is that good? I do reckon they’re looking very good, but in perspective who are their big challengers? I don’t see many real quality sides around at the moment.

In 2017 we had to get past Geelong who were probably at their strongest in recent seasons, outside maybe 2019 when we also beat them. Absolute peak GWS, that’s the best they’ve been aside from 2016. And then a crazy good Adelaide who destroyed everyone that year.

I don’t see any other sides near that mark right now. Geelong is nowhere near as good as 2017/19. Port is pretty decent but wouldn’t have them in that 2017 top 4. Brisbane good but again probably not in that 2017 top 4. The Dogs yes but they still have some issues.

I dunno, you can only play what you’re up against but I feel like the overall strength of the league isn’t what it was 2-4 years ago, so I reckon we can bounce back into serious contention.

The game this year became very much a win it at the stoppage, either centre or around the ground, and then spread hard away from the stoppage and utilise the ability once in possession of the footy to be able to pick their way through opposition defensive set ups. Just like talls don't get any smaller, big bodied midfielders don't get any smaller as the game progresses. That is why the Dogs and Dees midfielders in particular look just as strong at the end of games as they do at the start.

I believe we knew we needed to make adjustments even before this year hence our drafting in recent years of players like Ross RCD Dow Martyn HRS & Cumberland who are all bigger bodied types, we chased Cerra another bigger bodied type, were linked with Hopper and Green and I fully expect that come the draft we'll also be adding a couple more bigger bodied types.

Are the Dogs and Dees as good as we were back in the 2017-2020 period, time will tell, but on current form I'd expect to see them rated at the top of the rankings again in 2022

 

[Grrr]

I’m not against that either , I just see FB being such a specialist role that this positively impacts our structure releasing others to play more attacking football . I don’t support acquiring fringe mids that stand in way of rcd Martyn Dow or early draftees . Opportunities will open up for miller and eventually Biggy and Ryan , time on their side

Yes the opportunity will open for Miller, if he is patient. 6 years is a long time to be backup, young players get impatient, and who can blame them. I would almost guarantee that if North came and said there is a spot for you and a 2 year contract, he would take it. Chol and CCJ did the same thing. That would leave us very bare down back.

 

[richoplzbreed]

Yes the opportunity will open for Miller, if he is patient. 6 years is a long time to be backup, young players get impatient, and who can blame them. I would almost guarantee that if North came and said there is a spot for you and a 2 year contract, he would take it. Chol and CCJ did the same thing. That would leave us very bare down back.

No one's banging down Miller's managers door. If we delist him he'd prob end up working in the mines in Kalgoorlie.

 

[Grrr]

Baker proved in that GWS game he can play full time as a mid. He beat up a big bodied midfield with a heap of talent that night. No reason he can't play second banana to Prestia.

I really think we need Dusty to go back into the middle predominantly next year.

And he played a few more games in there and gradually lost impact. He would be a makeshift mid, maybe wing which is a mid but not quite as physical.

We some big bodied mids in RCD, Ross and Graham, perhaps Martyn to go with Dusty, Prestia and Cotchin. I would like to see Dusty spend more time as a full time mid these days, not just a mid that doesn't go past the centre circle. Reckon we need him more there and as a quasi captain if not the real one, he would set the tone and be a good challenge for him.

 

[Grrr]

No one's banging down Miller's managers door. If we delist him he'd prob end up working in the mines in Kalgoorlie.

And that would leave us with Garth, good solution all round. Miller can go home and Garth can stay on the list. Sounds like a good solution.

 

[Grrr]

Curious what people think about this, I mean, how are Melbourne much different to us at our recent best? They play a similar sort of brand, defend back deep, pressure on the ball, surge forward. Essendon does the same and had a pretty good season.

We’ll only be left behind if our players are past it, I reckon, not cause we need to adapt to anything. We might be getting close or closer to past it, but we had a sh*t, tired, hungerless, injury ridden season, that’s the main thing I reckon. We played our best against the Dogs in the second half and the competition got worried again, but we couldn’t maintain it.

Sorta relevant. Do we think Melbourne is that good? I do reckon they’re looking very good, but in perspective who are their big challengers? I don’t see many real quality sides around at the moment.

In 2017 we had to get past Geelong who were probably at their strongest in recent seasons, outside maybe 2019 when we also beat them. Absolute peak GWS, that’s the best they’ve been aside from 2016. And then a crazy good Adelaide who destroyed everyone that year.

I don’t see any other sides near that mark right now. Geelong is nowhere near as good as 2017/19. Port is pretty decent but wouldn’t have them in that 2017 top 4. Brisbane good but again probably not in that 2017 top 4. The Dogs yes but they still have some issues.

I dunno, you can only play what you’re up against but I feel like the overall strength of the league isn’t what it was 2-4 years ago, so I reckon we can bounce back into serious contention.

That's the excuse they have used about us on the main board for years. That and we are cheats, home grounders and umpires pets.

Melbourne's midfield is pretty exciting and play very hungry, much like us in our peak. I would back us in our prime, but we are not in our prime anymore.
Doggies are workman like, will see how good either are on the weekend.

 

[RobsJourney]

The game this year became very much a win it at the stoppage, either centre or around the ground, and then spread hard away from the stoppage and utilise the ability once in possession of the footy to be able to pick their way through opposition defensive set ups. Just like talls don't get any smaller, big bodied midfielders don't get any smaller as the game progresses. That is why the Dogs and Dees midfielders in particular look just as strong at the end of games as they do at the start.

I believe we knew we needed to make adjustments even before this year hence our drafting in recent years of players like Ross RCD Dow Martyn HRS & Cumberland who are all bigger bodied types, we chased Cerra another bigger bodied type, were linked with Hopper and Green and I fully expect that come the draft we'll also be adding a couple more bigger bodied types.

Are the Dogs and Dees as good as we were back in the 2017-2020 period, time will tell, but on current form I'd expect to see them rated at the top of the rankings again in 2022

Not so much that the Dees/Dogs aren't as good as we were, more that the overall strength of the league seems lower. Like I mentioned, do you think the Dogs and Dees have had to contend with teams as strong as Adelaide, GWS, and Geelong were in 2017, and even West Coast who were far stronger than they currently are?

As for the style, I dunno, despite STAND I reckon our old style works fine, we just couldn't bring it every game this year for the reasons I mentioned.

 

[RobsJourney]

i watched ESS closely and they weren't that similar to our original style, they loaded up in back half which negated their own scoring ability, MELB style prob closer , very aggressive use of handball , WB do to . leppa explains the nuances of both styles well

Weren't ESS one of the higher scoring teams this season?

EDIT: Yeah, Ess was 4th for points for.

 

[partycorolla]

My concern is that current league leaders that have put some space on us have huge bustling mids , fighting back with a squad of 173-177 mids won’t cut it . We need to address this at the draft , baker could play that lambo role , but that’s not really a primary inside mid role

Don't necessarily need to copy them. We won 2017 by being different - 1 key forward, forward handball and surge footy. They couldn't beat it, so the rules changed.

Trying to build the 2021 version of Dees/Dogs midfield will take years. Play to our strengths - that will be our go. Draft best available early and then needs later.

 

[partycorolla]

And that would leave us with Garth, good solution all round. Miller can go home and Garth can stay on the list. Sounds like a good solution.

That's a horrible solution. Garth is not an AFL standard footballer. Miller might not be either but he deserves a go. Undefeated in his career in the seniors