List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 4

[Grrr]

That's a horrible solution. Garth is not an AFL standard footballer. Miller might not be either but he deserves a go. Undefeated in his career in the seniors

Might have missed my rants over the last day or two, I was being sarcastic.

 

[_RT_]

Not so much that the Dees/Dogs aren't as good as we were, more that the overall strength of the league seems lower. Like I mentioned, do you think the Dogs and Dees have had to contend with teams as strong as Adelaide, GWS, and Geelong were in 2017, and even West Coast who were far stronger than they currently are?

As for the style, I dunno, despite STAND I reckon our old style works fine, we just couldn't bring it every game this year for the reasons I mentioned.

I think Brisbane Geelong & Port were as strong as the opposition (Crows Cats Pies Eagles GWS) that we played against through 2017-2020. The problem was that when they got to the end of the season, like us they eventually fell in a heap as last years efforts finally caught up with them, as they reached the finals.

Like us with a full and proper off season, I'd expect them, minus Geelong who I think will drop away a bit, to be back in the mix for the finals. The Dogs and Dees like us of 2017 are just entering their prime years with their groups, whereas we'll be trying to climb back up the mountain with a group that is on the other side of the journey.

 

[partycorolla]

Might have missed my rants over the last day or two, I was being sarcastic.

I think I definitely have! My apologies!

 

[Bojangles17]

Weren't ESS one of the higher scoring teams this season?

EDIT: Yeah, Ess was 4th for points for.

They didn’t play like that in the elim , could barely score

 

[richoatthedisco]

r1 mids can generally impact well before 5y , if they're taking that long , ill give you the tip , they aint ever coming on , Refer serong and brayshaw as an example 1-2y in, swans had a few too . Higgins played well for us in his first year

None of them lead a premiership midfield. Petracca (pick 2) and Oliver (pick 4) took years to reach their current level. So did Cotch and Dusty. We're not getting anyone of their quality in this draft.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

They didn’t play like that in the elim , could barely score

They had 6300 reasons why

 

[Marcel Proust]

Neale weighs 85kg
Serong weighs 85kg
Laird weighs 77kg
Prestia weighs 82kg
Harvey was 75kg and played majority of his career in an era when midfielders weren't as big

Baker weighs 72kg

Baker will get pummelled playing as an inside midfielder full time.

This is what I meant by too little

 

[Bojangles17]

Yes the opportunity will open for Miller, if he is patient. 6 years is a long time to be backup, young players get impatient, and who can blame them. I would almost guarantee that if North came and said there is a spot for you and a 2 year contract, he would take it. Chol and CCJ did the same thing. That would leave us very bare down back.

On face value that’s true , fact is our chiefs have only selected him for 1 game and there were plenty of ops for more and I realise he was injured at certain times but Garth was favoured , it tells me he is way down the pecking order . I’d like to see him get a 12m contract but they know better than me

 

[Bojangles17]

This is what I meant by too little

Yea Prestia is an absolute exception to the rule , generally speaking > 183cm \ 83kg is preferable for inside mids

 

[BKM78]

Curious what people think about this, I mean, how are Melbourne much different to us at our recent best? They play a similar sort of brand, defend back deep, pressure on the ball, surge forward. Essendon does the same and had a pretty good season.

We’ll only be left behind if our players are past it, I reckon, not cause we need to adapt to anything. We might be getting close or closer to past it, but we had a sh*t, tired, hungerless, injury ridden season, that’s the main thing I reckon. We played our best against the Dogs in the second half and the competition got worried again, but we couldn’t maintain it.

Sorta relevant. Do we think Melbourne is that good? I do reckon they’re looking very good, but in perspective who are their big challengers? I don’t see many real quality sides around at the moment.

In 2017 we had to get past Geelong who were probably at their strongest in recent seasons, outside maybe 2019 when we also beat them. Absolute peak GWS, that’s the best they’ve been aside from 2016. And then a crazy good Adelaide who destroyed everyone that year.

I don’t see any other sides near that mark right now. Geelong is nowhere near as good as 2017/19. Port is pretty decent but wouldn’t have them in that 2017 top 4. Brisbane good but again probably not in that 2017 top 4. The Dogs yes but they still have some issues.

I dunno, you can only play what you’re up against but I feel like the overall strength of the league isn’t what it was 2-4 years ago, so I reckon we can bounce back into serious contention.

Its always hard pitting sides against each other if they are not both at their peak powers, even if us and Melb only missed each other by a year or 2 (assuming Melb remain near the top the next few years and assuming we are not at our peak, the latter being safe to assume).
No, I dont think there is any reason to believe Melbourne is that different to us at our recent best. The difference between their best and worst this year was far smaller than ours and their worst showed up far less than ours did. I think their midfield pips ours every day of the week...but if one of either Gawn, Oliver or Petracca go down w/ injury then they will be a much lesser side, goes without saying, let alone other injuries all over the ground. They do play similar to us, high pressure, turn it over and go. They defend the ground real well. I think our best pressure trumps there's but I think they set the ground up defensively better than we did.
There will be huge interest in what we look like next year. I think we are one of the real fascinating unknown quantities of 2022. 2021 was shite but there was just so many factors that it is real hard to get a read on us. We should improve, injuries allowing, but by how much? Big question. How much do the Dees and Doggies improve, can we catch them? Yes....maybe? lol

 

[Bojangles17]

None of them lead a premiership midfield. Petracca (pick 2) and Oliver (pick 4) took years to reach their current level. So did Cotch and Dusty. We're not getting anyone of their quality in this draft.

To their current levels yea but still impacting at senior level well before that , Oliver did he win a bf in his first or second season ? Anyways my point is our best chance of rejuvenating our midfield is focus those 2 x r1 picks on best mids we can which I’m sure will be the plan in any case

 

[Maurice Mitchell]

Kane Cornes

Kane Cornes

Age

42

Ht

183cm

Wt

78kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.5

5star

K

12.5

5star

HB

11.0

5star

M

5.2

5star

T

3.3

5star

CL

2.6

4star

No current season stats available

D

13.0

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.2

3star

reckons Richmond would be best fit for Ladhams.

Do these guys think about these things before speaking?

CCJ and Chol won’t get a game but Ladhams will?

Western Bulldogs would appear the best match for me and that would make sense if Martin isn’t going on next year.

 

[Grrr]

I think I definitely have! My apologies!

Think yourself lucky.

 

[Marcel Proust]

When you're as good a forward as Naughton is you never play back again.

Maybe but they have two no.1 draft picks types, key forwards incoming.

Naughton could be a Rance type for them if he goes back down to chb.

That said JUM would be handy as a key defender with his skill set.

Doggies are stacked. Fancy Collingwood paying treloar to play for them

 

[Meteoric Rise]

True they won 3 flags, but that was when the game was played in a way that suited that midfield group, where it's strengths were best utilised. Those other 2 groups have dominated this season, which has led to both us as supporters and the club understanding that they need to change things up quickly or risk getting left behind.

I would think the reason those other two midfields have gone past ours in 2021 more to do with:

a) our injuries, especially versus Melbourne’s midfield who have had a dream run, and

b) age demographic of the respective midfields. I think of the main mids/rucks from Melbourne and Bulldogs only Bailey Smith is not in the 24-29yo window, and in finals he has been played forward to good effect. In comparison we had Nankervis, Prestia, Lambert, Martin, McIntosh, Pickett in that window, and that lot missed 32 games between them. It meant Bolton, Ralphsmith, Martyn, Ross, RCD, Dow, Cotchin, Edwards, Graham, Baker, CCJ and possibly others who are not in that peak window for midfielders spent more time in there, and I think it is fair to say the best of that lot currently, Cotchin, Edwards, Bolton missed loads of games and were hampered in several games they did play.

I just don’t think you can sheet it back to height and weight of the midfields the way you have done. It would be a factor but the Richmond mid section didn’t have so much trouble with the Bulldogs or Demons in recent years. I also don’t buy that is largely down to rule changes either. These things play a part, but never as big a part as getting fit, prime age, and/or your best players into your midfield.

 

[Grrr]

On face value that’s true , fact is our chiefs have only selected him for 1 game and there were plenty of ops for more and I realise he was injured at certain times but Garth was favoured , it tells me he is way down the pecking order . I’d like to see him get a 12m contract but they know better than me

Garth got the gig when Miller was injured, but yes they could have given him a go earlier, many were calling for it but they stuck with what they knew.

 

[beema limapep]

Cost his club 100k
Sprays his team mates for good play
Coleman Jones
Coleman Jones

Meet all of norths trade demands
to play in front of empty stands
Coleman Jones
Coleman Jones

 

[TigerTime88]

Addressing it at the draft will take 5+ years to pay off. You could argue we already have addressed it at the draft with RCD, Ross and Martyn. But they will all be 22 or under next year, which is why we're linked to mature big-bodied blokes like Dunstan.


He didn't beat them up at all. Hopper and Green dominated for three quarters before they ran out of legs.


I'm not saying don't give Baker midfield time. I'm saying he's not ever going to be a dominant inside mid. He's like Cerra. But smaller.


I don't want Dusty to play perma fwd.

He was BOG that night so call it what you like. I think he can play in the middle.

Would love to see Jack Graham attend every centre bounce to be honest.

 

[DoItForCaptBlood]

Proof

Been mentioned quite a few times on prematch and he never denies it.

 

[sregit]

I cannot work out why people are freaking out about picking up Tarrant. By the time Tarrant finishes in two years wetering will be a free agent and will just pick him up. Tarrant will be a great fill in. Cost us nothing in draft picks and we can draft many midfielders into the club to address our real weakness.

 

[Rubber Hips]

Cost his club 100k
Sprays his team mates for good play
Coleman Jones
Coleman Jones

Meet all of norths trade demands
to play in front of empty stands
Coleman Jones
Coleman Jones

dont forget his actions caused the club to unwillingly ‘sack’ a dedicated club staff member

 

[richoatthedisco]

To their current levels yea but still impacting at senior level well before that , Oliver did he win a bf in his first or second season ? Anyways my point is our best chance of rejuvenating our midfield is focus those 2 x r1 picks on best mids we can which I’m sure will be the plan in any case

To quote Homer Simpson, if we agree then what are we arguing for?

Maybe but they have two no.1 draft picks types, key forwards incoming.

Naughton could be a Rance type for them if he goes back down to chb.

That said JUM would be handy as a key defender with his skill set.

Doggies are stacked. Fancy Collingwood paying treloar to play for them

I'm going to go out on a limb and say neither Darcy nor JUH will be as good as Naughton. Especially at contested marking.

He was BOG that night

No he wasn't. And the 'call' was in the context of inside ball. Which Hopper and Green dominated and RCD did best for us.

As others have pointed out, he did play more midfield after that but that was his best game there. Brisbane, for one, clobbered him (the dirty, diving, whinging, cheapshot bitches).

 

[RobsJourney]

Its always hard pitting sides against each other if they are not both at their peak powers, even if us and Melb only missed each other by a year or 2 (assuming Melb remain near the top the next few years and assuming we are not at our peak, the latter being safe to assume).
No, I dont think there is any reason to believe Melbourne is that different to us at our recent best. The difference between their best and worst this year was far smaller than ours and their worst showed up far less than ours did. I think their midfield pips ours every day of the week...but if one of either Gawn, Oliver or Petracca go down w/ injury then they will be a much lesser side, goes without saying, let alone other injuries all over the ground. They do play similar to us, high pressure, turn it over and go. They defend the ground real well. I think our best pressure trumps there's but I think they set the ground up defensively better than we did.
There will be huge interest in what we look like next year. I think we are one of the real fascinating unknown quantities of 2022. 2021 was sh*te but there was just so many factors that it is real hard to get a read on us. We should improve, injuries allowing, but by how much? Big question. How much do the Dees and Doggies improve, can we catch them? Yes....maybe? lol

I dunno if their midfield beats ours at its best, as good as the Dees are currently playing...

Petracca, Oliver and Gawn are fantastic, but would you have Petracca over 2017 Dusty? A resounding no way. Would you have Oliver over 2017 Cotchin? Maybe for sheer number of possessions but otherwise no way, Cotchin was in everything, willed himself and what he lost in possessions he made up for in everything else in absolute spades, he is kinda paying for it now really given his body is starting to go. Gawn over Nank, yes, but different players anyway, Nank was/is huge for us. Then there's Viney, we have Prestia. Harmes, we had Edwards, pretty sure I know who I'd prefer. Langdon? I'll have Lambert thanks, how often he got away from contests into space was amazing. We'll always rate our own more highly but you can't deny how good our players are/were. I'd take our 2017 midfield over their current midfield for sure. Well, in the end at least we have the runs on the board with 3 flags and a prelim, let's see how they go.

But anyway it wasn't necessarily about comparing them to us, although yes, their best and worst does indeed seem smaller/less frequent, but that's why I brought up the quality of the league in general. Did Melbourne have as tough a group of teams to overcome compared to us? I'd argue not. They have some of the same teams up and about (Cats, Giants) who are now lesser versions of their 2017 selves I'd argue.

Anyway, hard to ever really know, was more just food for thought

 

[French Tiger]

Been mentioned quite a few times on prematch and he never denies it.

Yes he certainly doesn’t hide that he is a tiger supporter


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

That's the new 'middle aged'

In GFC terms yes