Transgender - Part 2

[Gethelred]

Please be aware that the tolerance of anti-trans language on BF is at an all-time low. Jokes and insults that are trans-related, as well as anti-trans and bigoted rhetoric will be met with infractions, threadbans etc as required. It's a sensitive (and important) topic, so behave like well-mannered adults when discussing it, PARTICULARLY when disagreeing. This equally applies across the whole site.

 

[the_interloper]

OK let us know what you believe the original claim to be.

I think kirsti said there have been studies that women in general punch as hard as men, don’t think said study was shared though (unless I missed it)

 

[ShanDog]

Your view is that one option which has NO supporting evidence is better than actual treatment which has some support in scientific studies.

So I can't take your "cold hard science" reference seriously.

What? You are seriously losing me. What treatment are you referring to?

 

[Chief]

I think kirsti said there have been studies that women in general punch as hard as men, don’t think said study was shared though (unless I missed it)

From what I remember there were a lot of allowances for different variables.

 

[SnakeMan86]

You going to explain your comments about non binary people suffering from endo being a stretch from yesterday or no?

Out of the 16 cases, how many are you saying we're non binary that suffered from Endo?

Andwhaen you say "there's also the fact that non binary people" can suffer? Are you talking born women who are non binary? Born males?

Corect me if im wrong, but burge13 discussion was around born males suffering from Endo.

Obviously, a woman Born female, who identifies as non binary can suffer from Endometriosis. So seems odd to throw that in.

 

[the_interloper]

From what I remember there were a lot of allowances for different variables.

So there was a relevant study linked?

 

[Chief]

So there was a relevant study linked?

Don't remember - I'll look later though.

 

[Gralin]

Out of the 16 cases, how many are you saying we're non binary that suffered from Endo?

Andwhaen you say "there's also the fact that non binary people" can suffer? Are you talking born women who are non binary? Born males?

Corect me if im wrong, but burge13 discussion was around born males suffering from Endo.

Obviously, a woman Born female, who identifies as non binary can suffer from Endometriosis. So seems odd to throw that in.

burge didnt have a discussion burge posted a couple of tweets from an article quoting a known bigot and commented lunacy

you keep trying to shift the goal posts back to the bigots framing of the discussion

im asking you if you understand the term non binary because your posting indicates you don't, but also that you haven't looked to fix that, just posted through it

which goes back to Geth's point about the level of knowledge people have vs their level of comfort with declaring what "reality" is

the tweet was from some random account screenshotting sections of a HUN article without a link to the article or anything else



Lets did into this from the article

what do you think the purpose of this is?

its arguing trans people should be exlcuded, not trans women, any trans people

this includes trans men and non binary people that were assigned female at birth who definitely can experience these issues

add to that the tweet itself said males cannot suffer from endo which clearly is incorrect

its just a bunch of misinfo and hate wrapped up as news because the source is a known bigot who is anti trans (and anti abortion incidentally, something very common among the people that get airtime like Deves, Deeming, KJK etc)

so we've got a tweet platforming both transphobia and incorrect information

it gets called out

and you're response is to argue in support of it because you want to narrow the focus to a few words in an article from a bigot instead of sit back and think hey maybe this isn't the hill to die on

so when you and burge and others keep moaning about being called bigots you should probably think about this kind of situation

when you moan about being told you aren't an expert, maybe you should acknowledge you're not

but nah, gotta keep arguing yeah

 

[SnakeMan86]

burge didnt have a discussion burge posted a couple of tweets from an article quoting a known bigot and commented lunacy

you keep trying to shift the goal posts back to the bigots framing of the discussion

im asking you if you understand the term non binary because your posting indicates you don't, but also that you haven't looked to fix that, just posted through it

which goes back to Geth's point about the level of knowledge people have vs their level of comfort with declaring what "reality" is

the tweet was from some random account screenshotting sections of a HUN article without a link to the article or anything else

View attachment 2056468

Lets did into this from the article

what do you think the purpose of this is?

its arguing trans people should be exlcuded, not trans women, any trans people

this includes trans men and non binary people that were assigned female at birth who definitely can experience these issues

add to that the tweet itself said males cannot suffer from endo which clearly is incorrect

its just a bunch of misinfo and hate wrapped up as news because the source is a known bigot who is anti trans (and anti abortion incidentally, something very common among the people that get airtime like Deves, Deeming, KJK etc)

so we've got a tweet platforming both transphobia and incorrect information

it gets called out

and you're response is to argue in support of it because you want to narrow the focus to a few words in an article from a bigot instead of sit back and think hey maybe this isn't the hill to die on

so when you and burge and others keep moaning about being called bigots you should probably think about this kind of situation

when you moan about being told you aren't an expert, maybe you should acknowledge you're not

but nah, gotta keep arguing yeah

Calm down mate. I simply asked questions. I asked questions regarding the content, the background. I didn't latch on guns blazing argue anything.

The only thing I "argued", was by questioning or saying "its a stretch" (which is still far from arguing), that non binary people suffer from endometriosis, based on the fact that there have only been 16 cases in total in all of humanity of males who have, and half of those were undergoing prolonged oestrogen therapy.

Your the one latching one to one aspect and using it as an excuse to throw your own labels.

If your telling me someone who was born a male, who identifies as "non binary" we are looking at what? Less than 8 cases in all of existence, to me, would classify as a "stretch" if we are going to make them the example.

 

[Gralin]

Calm down mate. I simply asked questions. I asked questions regarding the content, the background. I didn't latch on guns blazing argue anything.

The only thing I "argued", was by questioning or saying "its a stretch" (which is still far from arguing), that non binary people suffer from endometriosis, based on the fact that there have only been 16 cases in total in all of humanity of males who have, and half of those were undergoing prolonged oestrogen therapy.

Your the one latching one to one aspect and using it as an excuse to throw your own labels.

If your telling me someone who was born a male, who identifies as "non binary" we are looking at what? Less than 8 cases in all of existence, to me, would classify as a "stretch" if we are going to make them the example.

is it 8 cases or 16 or another number

this is what you do

you're just asking questions while ignoring the answers

burge shared a tweet that said men can't get endo

men can get endo

you're response to that isn't to go, well clearly there is something wrong with that article

its to say well there aren't that many cases like that suddenly changes things

you've also not addressed the fact the article is quoting a known actual transphobe

you've decided non binary means man for some reason

you've not addressed the part of the article that was complaining about transgender people being included and you keep focusing on this idea that its all about men

why aren't you asking questions about why the **** burge is calling this undefensible lunacy or whether some screenshots of an article quoting a bigot should be taken on faith

why does the fact that info in that is wrong lead to you trying to defend that

 

[SnakeMan86]

is it 8 cases or 16 or another number

this is what you do

you're just asking questions while ignoring the answers

burge shared a tweet that said men can't get endo

men can get endo

you're response to that isn't to go, well clearly there is something wrong with that article

its to say well there aren't that many cases like that suddenly changes things

you've also not addressed the fact the article is quoting a known actual transphobe

you've decided non binary means man for some reason

you've not addressed the part of the article that was complaining about transgender people being included and you keep focusing on this idea that its all about men

why aren't you asking questions about why the **** burge is calling this undefensible lunacy or whether some screenshots of an article quoting a bigot should be taken on faith

why does the fact that info in that is wrong lead to you trying to defend that

I asked a question initially to gain more context.

You've then used that as an opportunity to try and play gotcha, again.

You really are insufferable, you are so out for blood it's impossible to have any form of discourse in here whatsoever.

 

[Chief]

I asked a question initially to gain more context.

You've then used that as an opportunity to try and play gotcha, again.

You really are insufferable, you are so out for blood it's impossible to have any form of discourse in here whatsoever.

So did you have an opinion on the article itself?

Any thoughts at all.

 

[Gralin]

The inquiry in question btw

Inquiry into Women's Pain submissions

The Inquiry seeks submissions from anyone with information or interest in the Inquiry into Women's Pain.

www.health.vic.gov.au

 

[Chief]

As usual it's all about the Culture Warriors having a spit about someone, somewhere, being inclusive in the tiniest way, ever.

 

[ShanDog]

Definitely have to change the readily understood, basic language that everyone can understand, and then add a whole lot of throat-clearing and additional caveats to 'clear things up' because something like 8 out of 190 MILLION endometriosis sufferers were males not subject to hormone therapy.

Pats on the back everywhere folkx, we're smashing the cisheteronormative patriarchy!

 

[Chief]

Definitely have to change the readily understood, basic language that everyone can understand,

Which language did they change?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Definitely have to change the readily understood, basic language that everyone can understand, and then add a whole lot of throat-clearing and additional caveats to 'clear things up' because something like 8 out of 190 MILLION endometriosis sufferers were males not subject to hormone therapy.

Pats on the back everywhere folkx, we're smashing the cisheteronormative patriarchy!

ShanPerson doesn't have the same ring to it.

 

[ShanDog]

Which language did they change?

Anywhere several words could have been replaced with "females".

 

[Chief]

Anywhere several words could have been replaced with "females".

"Inquiry into Women's Pain"

"Victorian girls and women from 12 years of age."

If you are the run of the mill cis gender woman, what change do you need to make?

 

[ShanDog]

ShanPerson doesn't have the same ring to it.

Might actually make that change... You just have to give it time. Similar to the way some celebrity names seem normal, but are actually super weird when you think about them.

Eg. Channing Tatum

 

[ShanDog]

"Inquiry into Women's Pain"

"Victorian girls and women from 12 years of age."

If you are the run of the mill cis gender woman, what change do you need to make?

This is what I'm referring to:
"This includes those assigned females at birth and anyone who identifies as a woman, though they may have a different sex at birth."

 

[Chief]

This is what I'm referring to:
"This includes those assigned females at birth and anyone who identifies as a woman, though they may have a different sex at birth."

So, the question doesn't change does it?

If you are the run of the mill cis gender woman, what change do you need to make?

 

[ShanDog]

So, the question doesn't change does it?

If you are the run of the mill cis gender woman, what change do you need to make?

No, your question doesn't change, but neither does it actually affect or relate to the point I made. So assume whatever answer you like from me.

 

[Chief]

No, your question doesn't change, but neither does it actually affect or relate to the point I made.

Of course it does.

 

[ShanDog]

Of course it does.

You must misunderstand what I said, then. Likely my fault.

 

[Chief]

because something like 8 out of 190 MILLION endometriosis sufferers were males not subject to hormone therapy.

Do you think this inquiry is entirely about endometriosis pain?