Transgender - Part 2

[Gethelred]

Please be aware that the tolerance of anti-trans language on BF is at an all-time low. Jokes and insults that are trans-related, as well as anti-trans and bigoted rhetoric will be met with infractions, threadbans etc as required. It's a sensitive (and important) topic, so behave like well-mannered adults when discussing it, PARTICULARLY when disagreeing. This equally applies across the whole site.

 

[ShanDog]

Thank you for your submission.

 

[Theseventhhamster]

I guess he didn't quite quintuple down on being a dill. That's a relative win for our righty cohort.

 

[ShanDog]

I guess he didn't quite quintuple down on being a dill. That's a relative win for our righty cohort.

A disagreement on one issue doesn't make someone a right winger.

 

[Chief]

Reeks of "Why are you getting so mad?" schoolyard tactics.


There's so much! The hill that people will die on over this is one thing. Also, the fact that people don't want to offend male-born people by appearing to not invite them to make submissions to a women's study.

This is where I started suspecting that you thought it was just about endometriosis.

Have a look at the site. The scope is there in black and white. Given that scope, it is valid for trans women and trans men and just people who identify as women to make submissions because it's not just about conditions experienced exclusively or almost exclusively by people born with a womb.

If you were born male and identify and present as a woman and your migraines are not taken seriously by a medical professional then your submission might be helpful to the inquiry.

They're being clear about it so that they get as much information as they can.

The expectation of changing language that is understood by everyone to accommodate the tiniest of minorities. The zealousness of people who champion these things.

Pick any of them plus the many other reasons it's worth making fun of.

Ironically, this "language understood by everyone" doesn't seem to be understood by everyone.

 

[Theseventhhamster]

A disagreement on one issue doesn't make someone a right winger.

A disagreement where you badly reacted to your ignorance and never recovered would be a good indicator but I didn't label you for that reason, we have both posted here a long time. You even seemed a rare righty who saw the Overton window shifting for a while there, but here we are back at reacting badly to culture war things.

 

[ShanDog]

A disagreement where you badly reacted to your ignorance and never recovered would be a good indicator but I didn't label you for that reason, we have both posted here a long time. You even seemed a rare righty who saw the Overton window shifting for a while there, but here we are back at reacting badly to culture war things.

My ignorance? I misunderstood your post, and then immediately retracted what I said when I realised.

If you want an example of actual ignorance about intersex people, try bringing up the fact that no DSD produces any form of third sex or blending of the two sexes at all, and check out the response.

I'm not right wing by anyone's definition. To even know that you'd have to ask me about literally dozens of issues to determine my position on them.

 

[Gralin]

 

[ShanDog]

Is this your way of expressing doubt?

Let me know if I'm right wing. I believe:

There shouldn't be billionaires
More money needs to be spent on welfare and social services
Reduce how much government subsidies dinosaur industries
Increase unemployment benefits substantially
Determine if a UBI is workable
Decriminalisation of the use and posession of hard drugs (but not the sale)
Legalise marijuana use
Abortions should be easy to access by all who want them
Complete separation of church and state
More investment in renewable energies and the industries that make them
Significant government subsidies for installing solar and batteries in homes
Limit investment properties to a certain threshold of value
Totally support same sex marriage
There should be an official treaty signed with the indigenous people of Australia
Australia Day should be moved to a day that actually reflects Australia and not the British

How much more do you want? Or am I still right wing because I don't like the idea of children receiving what amounts to experimental treatment for gender dysphoria and the apparent erasure of the category of womanhood that women spent so long trying to fight for?

 

[Gralin]

Is this your way of expressing doubt?

Let me know if I'm right wing. I believe:

There shouldn't be billionaires
More money needs to be spent on welfare and social services
Reduce how much government subsidies dinosaur industries
Increase unemployment benefits substantially
Determine if a UBI is workable
Decriminalisation of the use and posession of hard drugs (but not the sale)
Legalise marijuana use
Abortions should be easy to access by all who want them
Complete separation of church and state
More investment in renewable energies and the industries that make them
Significant government subsidies for installing solar and batteries in homes
Limit investment properties to a certain threshold of value
Totally support same sex marriage
There should be an official treaty signed with the indigenous people of Australia
Australia Day should be moved to a day that actually reflects Australia and not the British

How much more do you want? Or am I still right wing because I don't like the idea of children receiving what amounts to experimental treatment for gender dysphoria and the apparent erasure of the category of womanhood that women spent so long trying to fight for?

No it was about this

If you want an example of actual ignorance about intersex people, try bringing up the fact that no DSD produces any form of third sex or blending of the two sexes at all, and check out the response.

 

[ShanDog]

No it was about this

Ah. What can I say? It's true and people either don't know or don't like it.

 

[Gralin]

Ah. What can I say? It's true and people either don't know or don't like it.

You'll have to point me to where this was part of the conversation where you shit the bed in your rush to make fun of someone

 

[ShanDog]

You'll have to point me to where this was part of the conversation where you shit the bed in your rush to make fun of someone

Was my purported ignorance about intersex people not mentioned at least twice now?

 

[Gralin]

Was my purported ignorance about intersex people not mentioned at least twice now?

your rush to be a dick because of the thread you are in was pointed out

your response was oh i didnt mean that but other people say dumb shit all the time

so yeah bit of look over here about it

 

[ShanDog]

your rush to be a dick because of the thread you are in was pointed out

your response was oh i didnt mean that but other people say dumb shit all the time

so yeah bit of look over here about it

You can keep needling me about the **** up and that's fine - I've owned it. But it would mean a lot more if I'd ever seen you walk back some of the absolute dross you've posted.

 

[Gralin]

You can keep needling me about the **** up and that's fine - I've owned it. But it would mean a lot more if I'd ever seen you walk back some of the absolute dross you've posted.

but that's just it

I'm not making fun of you making a mistake

I'm saying the issue was you rushing to make fun of what was being posted

and then I made fun you you posting about other people being ignorant because you'd been caught being a dick

 

[ShanDog]

but that's just it

I'm not making fun of you making a mistake

I'm saying the issue was you rushing to make fun of what was being posted

and then I made fun you you posting about other people being ignorant because you'd been caught being a dick

At what point does this become you derailing the thread?

 

[_Mike_]

The whole endometriosis in males thing has been around for decades now and historically in some cases was related to men who have undergone estrogen therapy for prostate related conditions.


Here is a case from 1980 : https://doi.org/10.1016/S0022-5347(17)55627-X


Tissue histologically indistinguishable from endometrium was removed from the bladder of a 73-year-old man. The lesionai tissue involved the right ureterovesical junction, producing hydronephrosis on the right side. The patient had an adenocarcinoma of the prostate and had been on estrogen therapy for 5 years before diagnosis of endometriosis. Two previous reports of endometriosis in male subjects, who were also on estrogen therapy, are reviewed briefly.

 

[Carringbush2010]

You can keep needling me about the **** up and that's fine - I've owned it. But it would mean a lot more if I'd ever seen you walk back some of the absolute dross you've posted.

 

[Carringbush2010]

At what point does this become you derailing the thread?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Stop derailing the thread CB

 

[Gralin]

This article has some good points around the Cass review and what the government has done instead

I treat transgender children – banning puberty blockers is not a decision for politicians to make | Aidan Kelly

Decisions around the tiny minority for whom the option could be helpful should be made by clinicians, not Wes Streeting, says clinical psychologist Aidan Kelly

www.theguardian.com

also about the targeting of trans kids

how puberty blockers are used with other adolescent kids who are intersex and patients with pancreatic cancer

apparently its fine for many uses other than supporting trans kids

its also only used in specific cases with them and after a lot of consultation

a blanket ban also wasn't what the rather flawed Cass Review was even calling for to begin with

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Not sure why you didn't just say that instead of saying that the post had a point?

Would have saved you a LOT of time.

So, a satirical and hyperbolic post can’t have a point?

Well that’s three millenia of political satire going back to classical Greece that’s been a complete waste of everyone’s time.

 

[Chief]

So, a satirical and hyperbolic post can’t have a point?

Not when it's based on an incorrect understanding of the object of the satire. Then it just looks kinda snarky and ignorant.

Yes I could have gone over to the site and grabbed the actual text he'd missed, but it seemed quite obvious to me and Shan's answers seemed to indicate that clarifications like this were always pointless so I didn't bother.

Hopefully we're all wiser now.

 

[ShanDog]

This article has some good points around the Cass review and what the government has done instead

I treat transgender children – banning puberty blockers is not a decision for politicians to make | Aidan Kelly

Decisions around the tiny minority for whom the option could be helpful should be made by clinicians, not Wes Streeting, says clinical psychologist Aidan Kelly

www.theguardian.com

also about the targeting of trans kids

how puberty blockers are used with other adolescent kids who are intersex and patients with pancreatic cancer

apparently its fine for many uses other than supporting trans kids

its also only used in specific cases with them and after a lot of consultation

a blanket ban also wasn't what the rather flawed Cass Review was even calling for to begin with

Children with DSD appears to be a pretty easy example of where a ban is inappropriate

 

[Gralin]

Children with DSD appears to be a pretty easy example of where a ban is inappropriate

Why is it appropriate for trans kids though

Why is this treatment safe for everyone but trans kids