UK UK general election, July 4
- Thread starter Johnny Bananas
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Chief
~ Shmalpha ~
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- #352
"Forcing citizens to freeze."
Means-testing a pensioner subsidy and taking it away from people who can well afford it is not forcing anyone to freeze.
Rampant resource and food markets capitalising on shortages to maximise profit is forcing people to freeze, or seek shelter at community venues like village halls.
www.theguardian.com
But Stalinist? To REDUCE government subsidies? That were needed due to free markets capitalising on shortages?
Ironically, global warming's effects on global climate systems will see UK temperatures drop.
Means-testing a pensioner subsidy and taking it away from people who can well afford it is not forcing anyone to freeze.
Rampant resource and food markets capitalising on shortages to maximise profit is forcing people to freeze, or seek shelter at community venues like village halls.
1.7m UK households won’t turn heating on this winter, research finds
More than half of households cite rising living costs as reason for not heating homes, while quarter of pensioners blame loss of winter fuel payments
If the means testing is badly done, this is a bad outcome, I agree.
But Stalinist? To REDUCE government subsidies? That were needed due to free markets capitalising on shortages?
Ironically, global warming's effects on global climate systems will see UK temperatures drop.
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Chief
~ Shmalpha ~
- Admin
- #353
"State corruption."
This isn't Stalinist and isn't limited to the Labour government. It reached its peak in the extended stay of the Tories in the UK.
Todman look up Baroness Mone - multi-level marketing spiv and failed PPE supplier. And member of the Aristocracy.
The English Aristocracy is Stalinist? OK.
Look up Capita and other government consultants.
Look up the Teeside Freeport.
This isn't Stalinist and isn't limited to the Labour government. It reached its peak in the extended stay of the Tories in the UK.
Todman look up Baroness Mone - multi-level marketing spiv and failed PPE supplier. And member of the Aristocracy.
The English Aristocracy is Stalinist? OK.
Look up Capita and other government consultants.
Look up the Teeside Freeport.
Chief
~ Shmalpha ~
- Admin
- #354
Biased state media - Yeah the Tories really sorted that out!
Creation of "thought crimes" - You can think what you like. Depending on how hateful and racist it is, you might not be able to publish those thoughts. I don't agree with most of that, but it's not a thought crime.
Cover up of murders - Whose murder was covered up? How is that Stalinist?
Forced migration - Who is being forced to migrate? How? The refugees that that Tory ministers were going to put on a plane to "safe" Rwanda?
Creation of "thought crimes" - You can think what you like. Depending on how hateful and racist it is, you might not be able to publish those thoughts. I don't agree with most of that, but it's not a thought crime.
Cover up of murders - Whose murder was covered up? How is that Stalinist?
Forced migration - Who is being forced to migrate? How? The refugees that that Tory ministers were going to put on a plane to "safe" Rwanda?
NSWCROW
Make me an Admin!
We all know who he meant
Chief
~ Shmalpha ~
- Admin
- #357
Anyway Todman - Why not have a go at Starmer over his support for Israel?
Silly petition going on at the moment, flooded with bots. "2 million signed!"
Crazy that many petition replies are on about Starmer having a "four year term". Bots that don't know that the UK terms are not 4 years - that's the US.
Similar to the Facebook bots that are shown to be based in Nigeria and ads and Twitter memberships paid for from Nigerian accounts.
It's a ****ing mess.
bylinetimes.com
The ABC had to take this up:
An analysis of “foreign interference in the UK election” by the Australian Broadcast Corporation found five apparently UK-based Facebook pages, supporting ‘Patriotic UK’ to ‘BeyondBorders UK’, – ‘Commonsense Britain’, ‘British Patriots’ and ‘BritBlend’ – were run by administrators mostly based in Nigeria and with Facebook ads paid for using Nigerian currency.
Following on from analysis by ITV and Cardiff University that suspicious accounts ‘with Nigerian following’ being used to push pro-Reform UK content on TikTok, ABC’s security experts concluded that the Facebook networks they had detected “had the hallmarks of a Russian influence operation”.
Silly petition going on at the moment, flooded with bots. "2 million signed!"
Crazy that many petition replies are on about Starmer having a "four year term". Bots that don't know that the UK terms are not 4 years - that's the US.
Similar to the Facebook bots that are shown to be based in Nigeria and ads and Twitter memberships paid for from Nigerian accounts.
It's a ****ing mess.
From Russia With Likes: Nigel Farage Dominates Social Media During General Election – Boosted by Bots Stoking Racism
The Reform Party is hovering around 18% of the vote, yet Farage's and his party's Facebook posts generated six times more reactions and shares than either Labour or the Conservatives and their leaders
bylinetimes.com
The ABC had to take this up:
An analysis of “foreign interference in the UK election” by the Australian Broadcast Corporation found five apparently UK-based Facebook pages, supporting ‘Patriotic UK’ to ‘BeyondBorders UK’, – ‘Commonsense Britain’, ‘British Patriots’ and ‘BritBlend’ – were run by administrators mostly based in Nigeria and with Facebook ads paid for using Nigerian currency.
Following on from analysis by ITV and Cardiff University that suspicious accounts ‘with Nigerian following’ being used to push pro-Reform UK content on TikTok, ABC’s security experts concluded that the Facebook networks they had detected “had the hallmarks of a Russian influence operation”.
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- Thread starter
- #358
This petition should be a major wake up call to Starmer that governing like a conservative is not going to win him popularity amongst the people. He needs to invest in the people and address the cost of living or he'll suffer the same fate as Biden. A good start would be embracing the agenda he advocated when standing for the Labour leadership, before he quickly abandoned it on achieving the position.
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This angle is appearing online so much now it must be deliberately promulgated
NSWCROW
Make me an Admin!
Pretty much the same that happened in the states.
Just say " things are shit " over and over again
Just say " things are shit " over and over again
Anyway Todman - Why not have a go at Starmer over his support for Israel?
Silly petition going on at the moment, flooded with bots. "2 million signed!"
Crazy that many petition replies are on about Starmer having a "four year term". Bots that don't know that the UK terms are not 4 years - that's the US.
Similar to the Facebook bots that are shown to be based in Nigeria and ads and Twitter memberships paid for from Nigerian accounts.
It's a ****ing mess.
From Russia With Likes: Nigel Farage Dominates Social Media During General Election – Boosted by Bots Stoking Racism
The Reform Party is hovering around 18% of the vote, yet Farage's and his party's Facebook posts generated six times more reactions and shares than either Labour or the Conservatives and their leaders
The ABC had to take this up:
An analysis of “foreign interference in the UK election” by the Australian Broadcast Corporation found five apparently UK-based Facebook pages, supporting ‘Patriotic UK’ to ‘BeyondBorders UK’, – ‘Commonsense Britain’, ‘British Patriots’ and ‘BritBlend’ – were run by administrators mostly based in Nigeria and with Facebook ads paid for using Nigerian currency.
Following on from analysis by ITV and Cardiff University that suspicious accounts ‘with Nigerian following’ being used to push pro-Reform UK content on TikTok, ABC’s security experts concluded that the Facebook networks they had detected “had the hallmarks of a Russian influence operation”.
Who are the 2 million demanding a general election? Crunching viral petition numbers
Starmer insists he’s ‘not surprised’ by election petition with two million signatures as he rules out another vote
www.independent.co.uk
Petition: Call a General Election
I would like there to be another General Election. I believe the current Labour Government have gone back on the promises they laid out in the lead up to the last election.
petition.parliament.uk
Over 2.8 Million now. Even if full of Russian bots there is still many legitimate signatures.
The government must respond to all petitions with over 10,000 signatures, and petitions reaching 100,000 signatures are considered before parliament.
Chief
~ Shmalpha ~
- Admin
- #363
I am sure the billionaires you are touting for will reward you for your service.Who are the 2 million demanding a general election? Crunching viral petition numbers
Starmer insists he’s ‘not surprised’ by election petition with two million signatures as he rules out another vote
Petition: Call a General Election
I would like there to be another General Election. I believe the current Labour Government have gone back on the promises they laid out in the lead up to the last election.
Over 2.8 Million now. Even if full of Russian bots there is still many legitimate signatures.
The government must respond to all petitions with over 10,000 signatures, and petitions reaching 100,000 signatures are considered before parliament.
Chief
~ Shmalpha ~
- Admin
- #364
You missed the lines before that quote:
People who didn't vote for Labour want to re-do the election. Add names to a petition promoted by Leon and other bot-corrals.
The only problem is how little they know about the UK system.
It's just Trumpy crap warmed over for a few UK dweebs to do their performative outrage because they felt left out when they couldn't get in on the January 6 insurrection in the US.
People who didn't vote for Labour want to re-do the election. Add names to a petition promoted by Leon and other bot-corrals.
The only problem is how little they know about the UK system.
It's just Trumpy crap warmed over for a few UK dweebs to do their performative outrage because they felt left out when they couldn't get in on the January 6 insurrection in the US.
"Forcing citizens to freeze."
Means-testing a pensioner subsidy and taking it away from people who can well afford it is not forcing anyone to freeze.
Rampant resource and food markets capitalising on shortages to maximise profit is forcing people to freeze, or seek shelter at community venues like village halls.
1.7m UK households won’t turn heating on this winter, research finds
More than half of households cite rising living costs as reason for not heating homes, while quarter of pensioners blame loss of winter fuel payments
If the means testing is badly done, this is a bad outcome, I agree.
But Stalinist? To REDUCE government subsidies? That were needed due to free markets capitalising on shortages?
Ironically, global warming's effects on global climate systems will see UK temperatures drop.
It’s obviously not “Stalinist” but it is outrageous, saw a major split in the party (that Starmer exacerbated) as it hurt ordinary people. People didn’t elect Starmer to double down on austerity, and whatever issues you may have with the petition, every poll says that no government has been so unpopular so quickly, with most now putting the Tories ahead or even and that they preferred Sunak to Starmer.
Obviously I don’t think people should switch to the conservatives - I really don’t know why the various suspended Labour MPs and progressive independents don’t start their own party to do to Labour what Reform did to the Conservatives. But he’s a shocker.
Chief
~ Shmalpha ~
- Admin
- #366
Means testing a subsidy isn't a big deal IMO.
The very idea of means testing a subsidy is so people who can well afford to pay their bills aren't subsidised. If it has been mis-targeted and people in need have lost out, that's bad. It needs review.
But of course it was never going to work either way. Nobs at News etc would just accuse Starmer of waste if he DIDN'T means test it.
- Thread starter
- #367
Are the opinion polls full of bot votes? They're pretty poor for Starmer. The US election was also not kind to a "centre-left" party attempting to be moderate conservatives. Nor are the Australian polls.
- Thread starter
- #369
The problem with means-testing a program is that many who miss out see it as being something they're okay with cutting because they have no skin in the game. Programs that are open to all may benefit some people who don't need it, but sometimes that's a price worth paying to ensure a program is popular among the public, making it harder for anyone to cut in future. This is why programs like Steven Miles' 50c public transport fares were political gold in electorates with high public transport use.
This part is true, but centre-left leaders need to show courage and be willing to use their political capital on progressive policies, regardless of the inevitable media criticism. Otherwise, what's the point of electing the centre-left, other than the conservatives being worse? I don't want society to be less worse, I want it to be better.
You're missing the point, which is that Starmer has squandered his popularity and political capital in record time. This should tell him to do something different.
I did conflate a little in my comment the winter fuel payment and the two child cap, which caused the more damaging split (and is undoubtedly the more egregious issue, though unsurprising our Conservative friend didn’t mention that one).
Nonetheless, I’ll say nothing is ever strengthened by means testing, and the winter fuel allowance only exists because of the inadequate pension that exists and that Labour has done nothing to fix. As The Guardian outlined recently, the cut will force an enormous amount of people into poverty.
He got in because he was the lucky person there at the right time when the Tories collapsed. He chose to be a cowardly friend of capital and declared war on the previous leadership group of the party with the support of the rabid right who nonetheless won’t support him anyway. In the process he’s allowed the Tories to come back into the prime position to govern when they should by all rights be out for generations.
- Thread starter
- #373
He absolutely pissed it in on the back of the Conservatives being incompetent. And I'd have much more sympathy for this argument if the parts of the party who backed Starmer hadn't white-anted Jeremy Corbyn instead of defending him against the rabid right wing backed by billionaires.
- Thread starter
- #375
The bots are irrelevant, Starmer is in a nosedive regardless.
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