UK UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson - A loco recordarentur operum verborumque eius

[Crankyhawk]

So to stop,Brexit you want the Provisional IRA to start terror attacks?

I think he is saying that terror attacks could be an indirect result of hard border brexit.
I don’t know if they have the level of hate and vengeance with the duration of ceasefire though

 

[Crankyhawk]

Please read up on the Irish diaspora and its influence on US politics before you make remarks like that one. It is one of the few lobbies that embraces left, right, east, west, north, south, GOP, and Democrats. Trump will not propose any treaty that causes a closed border and even if he did, it will never, ever get through Congress.

As long as the Dems control the US House of Representatives and Pelosi remains Speaker, the House alone can scuttle any trade deal Trump comes up with regarding the UK post-Brexit. All trade deals must be approved by Congress and that approval process starts in the House of Representatives. Pelosi is already on record, months ago, stating no trade deal if UK crashes out of the EU with a no-deal that harms the GFA. She won’t allow it a vote on the House floor.

Peter King, a Republican, agrees with Pelosi on this, as do several other Republican congressmen who are either of Irish extraction or represent areas that have a large Irish-American population, including several swing states.

You are seriously underestimating the Irish lobby in the US politics

and it's not just them...Trump's administration have stated as well..

As i said you Brexiters are in lala land..creating your own fantasies.Remember that the UK-wide backstop is there at the insistence of the UK government, which in turn was acting under pressure from the DUP.

That is the same DUP which subsequently voted against the Withdrawal Agreement. The current head of the British Government, who now proclaims that the Withdrawal Agreement is dead and that the backstop must be removed, voted for it on the most recent occasion it was debated in the HoC.

According to the Withdrawal Agreement, the backstop is temporary, to be replaced by alternative arrangements when these become available. The UK Government claims that such alternatives to the backstop already exist, but so far has declined to specify what these are and how they would work in practice.

If they do exist, and can be shown to be effective,then the UK government has nothing to fear from the backstop. If they are not effective as alternative arrangements to the backstop, then the UK government is being DUPlicitous...

Trump doesn’t need to endorse or otherwise what happens re brexit and or hard border. A trade negotiation could focus only on US vs whatever is left of UK and disregard inconvenient “political matters”

 

[WA ROO]

I think he is saying that terror attacks could be an indirect result of hard border brexit.
I don’t know if they have the level of hate and vengeance with the duration of ceasefire though

He couldn't say that without a rant?
To me it read like he didn't want to answer the question
Hopefully Gough will clarify his quote

 

[Total Power]

Trump doesn’t need to endorse or otherwise what happens re brexit and or hard border. A trade negotiation could focus only on US vs whatever is left of UK and disregard inconvenient “political matters”

A trade agreement will need both houses and the executive. The democrats control one. Plus the irish lobby in the US is strong. Again in Brexiters fantasy land, the deal is happening if GFA is scrapped.

 

[Gough]

He couldn't say that without a rant?
To me it read like he didn't want to answer the question
Hopefully Gough will clarify his quote

I've always been on the side of the six counties and always supported the GFA. As long as the Brits keep up their end of the bargain I hope there's no trouble.

 

[Crankyhawk]

A trade agreement will need both houses and the executive. The democrats control one. Plus the irish lobby in the US is strong. Again in Brexiters fantasy land, the deal is happening if GFA is scrapped.

I think that the USA could also sideline the Irish question as “internal British” matter and “we don’t want to interfere, just like we wouldn’t want them interfering with us and Mexico”. I’m saying that’s an argument they could put forth.
In the end it will come down to whether there is a significant benefit to have a FTA with what is left of Britain (it may not be, idk)

 

[Total Power]

I think that the USA could also sideline the Irish question as “internal British” matter and “we don’t want to interfere, just like we wouldn’t want them interfering with us and Mexico”. I’m saying that’s an argument they could put forth.
In the end it will come down to whether there is a significant benefit to have a FTA with what is left of Britain (it may not be, idk)

They cant just say we don't care after stating in public about the GFA. Its not an internal issue, lots of Irish Americans are involved in the Congress. Why do you think the Israeli lobby is also strong in the US? Similar reasons. There is no way this is passing through all the houses. Nancy Pelosi is very powerful and influential, trade deals are very difficult to get through the American Government and they require significant support. The Democrats would not have to exert too much political effort into stopping a trade-deal from being negotiated.

 

[Bradesmaen]

He couldn't say that without a rant?
To me it read like he didn't want to answer the question
Hopefully Gough will clarify his quote

Stick to bogan things and abusing people roo shooter and we'll discuss the issues with Brexit

 

[WA ROO]

Stick to bogan things and abusing people roo shooter and we'll discuss the issues with Brexit

Like all bogans I don't care what you think

 

[donkeypunchd]

Well,well, well. Boris has moved the needle it would seem.

Eoghan Harris: 'Boris Johnson has called Leo and Simon's backstop bluff'

Last Thursday, Leo Varadkar rhetorically dug up Famine graves in a last desperate attempt to distract from the following frightening truth.

www.independent.ie

“Unless we bin out fraudulent backstop, Boris Johnson will crash out of the EU, leaving our economy in ruins and our relations with England, our nearest neighbour, in rag order”.

Insisting on backstop got us Johnson

Ireland’s intransigence on the issue of the border has brought us to the verge of the worst-case scenario. But there may still be time to salvage a soft Brexit from this mess

www.businesspost.ie

It should now be clear that the backstop has been a disaster for Ireland.

Eoghan Harris? Seriously? He’s the most discredited political writer in Irish journalism. In addition to defending corruption in high office, he’s had multiple complaints upheld against him for historical inaccuracy in programmes he’s made and presented as ‘documentaries’. Certainly not someone to be considered at all representative of mainstream Irish political or cultural society.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

Any source is valid when medusala likes what's he hearing. When he doesn't, The Guardian, Ny Times, whatever is hilariously dismissive bullshit.

 

[Elroo]

Boris's majority reduced to one.

Lib Dems win Brecon and Radnorshire byelection, cutting Johnson majority to one

Jane Dodds beats outgoing Tory member Chris Davies, and says her first act will be to tell prime minister to rule out no-deal Brexit

www.theguardian.com

 

[Crankyhawk]

They cant just say we don't care after stating in public about the GFA. Its not an internal issue, lots of Irish Americans are involved in the Congress. Why do you think the Israeli lobby is also strong in the US? Similar reasons. There is no way this is passing through all the houses. Nancy Pelosi is very powerful and influential, trade deals are very difficult to get through the American Government and they require significant support. The Democrats would not have to exert too much political effort into stopping a trade-deal from being negotiated.

I would bet standard politics come into play. Ie bribe and boondoggle to get votes in Congress. Of course will only happen if the USA have anything to gain from FTA. I don’t think that the Irish lobby is as strong as say the “give us jobs and export markets “ lobby.

 

[Total Power]

I would bet standard politics come into play. Ie bribe and boondoggle to get votes in Congress. Of course will only happen if the USA have anything to gain from FTA. I don’t think that the Irish lobby is as strong as say the “give us jobs and export markets “ lobby.

You are right but the agreement is guaranteed by the US. US simply can't break it even if they want to.

 

[FredLeDeux]

You are right but the agreement is guaranteed by the US. US simply can't break it even if they want to.

Meds has been moonlighting.

 

[Crankyhawk]

You are right but the agreement is guaranteed by the US. US simply can't break it even if they want to.

But if it is broken by other parties what can the USA do?

 

[Total Power]

But if it is broken by other parties what can the USA do?

US cannot officially support that, it will be a diplomatic disaster, specially with the EU the largest trading bloc in the world. Not to mention Democrats will never allow the motion to pass regardless. 18.8 trillion market vs 3 trillion, simple math really.

 

[Crankyhawk]

US cannot officially support that, it will be a diplomatic disaster, specially with the EU the largest trading bloc in the world. Not to mention Democrats will never allow the motion to pass regardless. 18.8 trillion market vs 3 trillion, simple math really.

I see it as brexit and the consequent hard border (my opinion of where this is headed, not a statement of good or not good) isn’t something that the US can control. So then it becomes a question of whether adding an agreement between US and UK would breach the existing trade agreement between US and EU.

Idk answer

 

[Total Power]

I see it as brexit and the consequent hard border (my opinion of where this is headed, not a statement of good or not good) isn’t something that the US can control. So then it becomes a question of whether adding an agreement between US and UK would breach the existing trade agreement between US and EU.

Idk answer

Leaving US out of the equation, for UK this will be difficult under so many levels. While WTO said it will not force UK to erect a hard border but in order to trade under WTO rules there must be a level playing pitch.So, if there is NO physical border in N Ireland, there can be none at Dover, Portsmouth, Gibraltar, etc. The WTO rule says you have to treat every trade partner equally unless you have a negotiated deal.So, no, you don’t need a hard border unless you don’t want every other country dumping in Little England, un-tariffed and uninspected. Most Brexiters (if not all) are not aware of this.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Leaving US out of the equation, for UK this will be difficult under so many levels. While WTO said it will not force UK to erect a hard border but in order to trade under WTO rules there must be a level playing pitch.So, if there is NO physical border in N Ireland, there can be none at Dover, Portsmouth, Gibraltar, etc. The WTO rule says you have to treat every trade partner equally unless you have a negotiated deal.So, no, you don’t need a hard border unless you don’t want every other country dumping in Little England, un-tariffed and uninspected. Most Brexiters (if not all) are not aware of this.

I thought they know this hence Boris talking about hard Irish borders?

 

[Total Power]

I thought they know this hence Boris talking about hard Irish borders?

How long it takes for some people like Boris to forget how hard it was to bring relative peace to Northern Ireland? It only takes twenty one years and these forgetful people already take peace for granted and call everyone cautioning them as starting Project Fear Mark 2.

The UK changes the situation. Therefore it is not on the EU or the ROI to make sacrifices to let the UK fulfill its obligations.They want to **** an international treaty and they want to change.

It may be a minor issue in Brexiters (and the UK's) eyes, it is a mayor problem for both Irish communities and above that it needs to be signed off by all EU member states and also US. This is not happening despite people in Brexiter fantasy world claiming otherwise.

 

[Crankyhawk]

How long it takes for some people like Boris to forget how hard it was to bring relative peace to Northern Ireland? It only takes twenty one years and these forgetful people already take peace for granted and call everyone cautioning them as starting Project Fear Mark 2.

The UK changes the situation. Therefore it is not on the EU or the ROI to make sacrifices to let the UK fulfill its obligations.They want to fu** an international treaty and they want to change.

It may be a minor issue in Brexiters (and the UK's) eyes, it is a mayor problem for both Irish communities and above that it needs to be signed off by all EU member states and also US. This is not happening despite people in Brexiter fantasy world claiming otherwise.

So even in a no deal situation the EU still get to veto or reject what Britain wants to do?
Well if that is the case I cannot see any brexit at all.

 

[Total Power]

So even in a no deal situation the EU still get to veto or reject what Britain wants to do?
Well if that is the case I cannot see any brexit at all.

This won't break the EU but this will break the UK. They wanted it and they will get it... Karma. Although lets not pretend than those *****s in England actually care about the rest of the UK, but still...

 

[The Warlord]

I think that the USA could also sideline the Irish question as “internal British” matter and “we don’t want to interfere, just like we wouldn’t want them interfering with us and Mexico”. I’m saying that’s an argument they could put forth.
In the end it will come down to whether there is a significant benefit to have a FTA with what is left of Britain (it may not be, idk)

Yeah, maybe 180 years ago. Not now.

 

[donkeypunchd]

So even in a no deal situation the EU still get to veto or reject what Britain wants to do?
Well if that is the case I cannot see any brexit at all.

The EU can set the backstop, divorce bill & citizen’s rights as preconditions to negotiating a FTA. What some people (most of them Brexiteers, admittedly) continually overlook is the fact that the WA is intended to put a ‘pause’ on relations while such an agreement is negotiated. Trashing the WA, actively undermining the stability of an EU member state (Ireland), reneging on the divorce bill and wasting the time & resources of the bloc is highly unlikely to result in the UK being offered a generous fully comprehensive trade deal covering both goods and services.