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UK UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson - A loco recordarentur operum verborumque eius
- Thread starter The Warlord
- Start date
- Tagged users None
Johnson has employed morrisons tactics manager to prepare for an election
No doubt framing a tory vote as a protest vote despite them being in power for ages and a bunch of establishment campaigners
No doubt framing a tory vote as a protest vote despite them being in power for ages and a bunch of establishment campaigners
The Brits have repeatedly said they wont put a border up. Its a confected non issue and everyone knows it.
That is incorrect. If they sign up to the WA then they wont be able to sign a decent FTA as the backstop would be in place ie they would be stuck in a customs union.
Its perfectly possible that the current arrangements could stay in place under GATT rules pending negotiation of an FTA. Of course they EU wont do that as they have refused to negotiate in good faith added and abetted by the prancing perfumed poodle in Dublin.
Where the UK might run into trouble is under the WTO’s non-discrimination rules, particularly “most-favoured-nation” treatment (MFN), which means treating one’s trading partners equally. While WTO rules doesn't force countries to put borders up, UK has to set up customs and border check points. Stop peddling lies
No, they can it away from the border and comply. Who is peddling lies?
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ire...eu-or-uk-to-erect-hard-irish-border-1.3710136
The World Trade Organisation (WTO) has said that there is nothing in its rules that would force either the EU or UK to erect a hard Irish border after Brexit.
In circumstances where duties or customs are not enforced, a major beef producer such as the US or Argentina could lodge a complaint if the UK decided to import Irish beef duty free to avoid a customs border.
You either didnt read the article or just read the headlines and cherry picked parts of it. Let me help with your own link:
“I can’t see a tractable solution to the border issue if the UK wants to deviate sufficiently strongly from the status quo,” said the DCU academic.
Yet another nothing argument from a Brexiter.. I never said WTO rules state there must be a border i mentioned it above.. I actually said the MFN clause will prevent that from happening and many WTO members will veto UK's seat in the WTO, cause UK has no seat in the WTO as of now. And what you are suggestingThe differential treatment of trade on the island of Ireland, and other trade between the EU and the UK....yes EU will allow that to happen right? Not possible under present WTO rules. Please read the rules properly. If the UK chooses not impose any tariffs on goods coming across the border… that would mean that the UK is giving the EU (because Ireland is the EU in this context) complete open access. So its most favoured nation tariff is zero. That means it would have to give a zero tariff access to every single country in the WTO
UK agri-food products would either have to compete with heavily subsided EU produce on the global market… or target sales within the UK to avoid import duties. It is likely that suppliers will use the cheapest available option which, due to CAP subsidies, may very well still be EU products"
. Simple economics meds, which seems to be so hard for you
In other words, abolishing import tariffs could mean that UK producers are priced-out of UK and EU markets.
Brexit is not just about UK, it's about EU too, so stop with this "good faith" nonsense, in a free market you are totally entitled to look after your own interests and stuff the UK, i really hope EU stays firm on their policy and UK can shove their Brexit up their own arse. I shouldn't say UK, soon to be Union of England and Wales only LOL
If the UK signs a free-trade deal with the US after Brexit, then the UK will be awash with American chlorinated chicken and unmarked GM foods and other stuff that the EU wants to keep out.
But according to you, everything is about the UK and EU should just worry about UK showing good faith. Absolutely pathetic argument from a person who hasn't put forward one convincing LEAVE argument so far. You are a beaut meds, what a shame, as you are quite intelligent otherwise.
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So as long as none of the other 160 countries in the WTO doesn't take offence to the EU or the UK treating each other differently to other third countries then we will be fine hmmm don't we have several countries putting in complaints about UK schedule? Shouldn't be a problem LOL! back in the real world meds, 20 WTO members has already vetoed UK's porposals once in the past 12 months.
hmmm don't we have several countries putting in complaints about UK schedule? Shouldn't be a problem LOL! back in the real world meds, 20 WTO members has already vetoed UK's porposals once in the past 12 months.
Where? 10 miles down the road? Well wherever the checks are will be the de facto border. Even if it's half a mile down the road. you are not seriously trying to tell us that having a gate across a road and people looking into the back of your truck doesn’t raise the cost of trying to sneak a truck full of contraband from one country to the other compared to just requiring someone to fill in some forms on a website.
Surely it more comes down to how much of a regulatory difference there is across the two sides of the border. The profit to be made through smuggling goods across the border is proportional to the regulatory differences between the two.
If both sides of the border follow similar policies then you can easily turn a blind eye to the odd carton of milk crossing the border without paying duties.
But, to take an extreme example, suppose the UK wishes to legalize Heroin. Should the EU turn a blind eye to the UK-Ireland border being a major route for hard drugs entering the EU?
Keeping a transparent border does require that both sides keep regulations more or less in line with each other. So that is a loss of sovereignty.
If you worked patrolling a border you presumably thought that being physically present was an important part of that job. One that couldn’t be substituted by sitting in an office somewhere. Seriously meds Brexit is not about UK only, stop with the lies. UK needs to have a border for their own sake and Ireland needs to have it by law, as i explained above.
Another meds argument smashed in a few seconds.
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Crankyhawk
Hall of Famer
How do they distinguish between an Irish EU citizen (for whom the border at NI would be soft as per GFA) and all the other EU citizens who could cross the border?
Crankyhawk
Hall of Famer
Tbf there’s no longer a need to provide an argument as to why the UK should or should not leave, they have decided to leave so it is all about the mechanics of leavingYou either didnt read the article or just read the headlines and cherry picked parts of it. Let me help with your own link:
View attachment 723026
“I can’t see a tractable solution to the border issue if the UK wants to deviate sufficiently strongly from the status quo,” said the DCU academic.
Yet another nothing argument from a Brexiter.. I never said WTO rules state there must be a border i mentioned it above.. I actually said the MFN clause will prevent that from happening and many WTO members will veto UK's seat in the WTO, cause UK has no seat in the WTO as of now. And what you are suggestingThe differential treatment of trade on the island of Ireland, and other trade between the EU and the UK....yes EU will allow that to happen right? Not possible under present WTO rules. Please read the rules properly. If the UK chooses not impose any tariffs on goods coming across the border… that would mean that the UK is giving the EU (because Ireland is the EU in this context) complete open access. So its most favoured nation tariff is zero. That means it would have to give a zero tariff access to every single country in the WTO
UK agri-food products would either have to compete with heavily subsided EU produce on the global market… or target sales within the UK to avoid import duties. It is likely that suppliers will use the cheapest available option which, due to CAP subsidies, may very well still be EU products"
. Simple economics meds, which seems to be so hard for you
In other words, abolishing import tariffs could mean that UK producers are priced-out of UK and EU markets.
Brexit is not just about UK, it's about EU too, so stop with this "good faith" nonsense, in a free market you are totally entitled to look after your own interests and stuff the UK, i really hope EU stays firm on their policy and UK can shove their Brexit up their own arse. I shouldn't say UK, soon to be Union of England and Wales only LOL
If the UK signs a free-trade deal with the US after Brexit, then the UK will be awash with American chlorinated chicken and unmarked GM foods and other stuff that the EU wants to keep out.
But according to you, everything is about the UK and EU should just worry about UK showing good faith. Absolutely pathetic argument from a person who hasn't put forward one convincing LEAVE argument so far. You are a beaut meds, what a shame, as you are quite intelligent otherwise.
As I said before it will be a no deal.
No the UK doesnt need to have a border. Thats an utter load of cobblers. Intra Ireland trade is stuff all in any event.
You dont even have a semblance of an argument. Time and again you have been told but you still stick with your nonsense.
The only ones insisting on something resembling a hard border is the EU
NOT the UK or Ireland
So stop with your BS about it somehow being the UKs fault.
lol. Car crash of a thread for you.
You are the Black Knight of figbooty
Goes troppo over several years to keep out ‘foreigners’
Ends up not manning the irish border
Only in britain
Ends up not manning the irish border
Only in britain
The TP slow motion car crash continues.
www.irishtimes.com
No-deal Brexit will see checks on UK imports but not at border, says Goverment
Some checks on products imported from the UK, including Northern Ireland, would be necessary in the event of a crash-out Brexit if Ireland wished to maintain its full participation in the EU single market and customs union, the Government has said.
In a Brexit planning document published this afternoon the Government says the checks required would disrupt trade between the UK and Ireland but says these checks would not take place at the border.
No-deal Brexit will see checks on UK imports but not at border, says Goverment
Crash-out would see firms close and jobs lost in agri-food, fisheries and tourism sectors
No-deal Brexit will see checks on UK imports but not at border, says Goverment
Some checks on products imported from the UK, including Northern Ireland, would be necessary in the event of a crash-out Brexit if Ireland wished to maintain its full participation in the EU single market and customs union, the Government has said.
In a Brexit planning document published this afternoon the Government says the checks required would disrupt trade between the UK and Ireland but says these checks would not take place at the border.
You can't or you don't read, i swear..i just explained this to you in dummies terms, i can't do it any longer. UK DOES need to have a border (not by WTO rules) UNLESS they are dropping all their tariffs to do zero due to MFN clause). READ WHAT I WROTE ABOVE, I explained why and provided links why it will be devastating for the domestic producers and manufacturers by allowing other countries to flood the UK market with cheap produce. .You are just stunningly wrong and living in the same warped world as Rees Mogg and Farage! No deal with the EU *explicitly* means that UK have no legal agreement with the EU and with Ireland. As such it means THEY HAVE to have a border with them. Separate states without agreements *have borders*. This seriously cannot be that hard to understand, seriously.
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The TP slow motion car crash continues.
No-deal Brexit will see checks on UK imports but not at border, says Goverment
Crash-out would see firms close and jobs lost in agri-food, fisheries and tourism sectors
No-deal Brexit will see checks on UK imports but not at border, says Goverment
Some checks on products imported from the UK, including Northern Ireland, would be necessary in the event of a crash-out Brexit if Ireland wished to maintain its full participation in the EU single market and customs union, the Government has said.
In a Brexit planning document published this afternoon the Government says the checks required would disrupt trade between the UK and Ireland but says these checks would not take place at the border.
Awesome, so where will this take place? in an office? how do you prevent smuggling then? your IQ is worse than Farage's and how will Ireland preserve the integrity of the Single Market? did you read the article you quoted? it says Ireland BY LAW needs to have a border. READ, BY LAW.
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Am I missing something here?
If Ireland is going to do its required border checks not at the border, but at another line inside Ireland;
and if England is going to do ditto not at the border, but somewhere inside NI;
then don't they all end up with 3 borders instead of one
- the legal border, and
- an extra two de facto borders?
In their warped world. There is already a lot of smuggling through that route, it will get worse. Ireland will never accept this. Perhaps if meds is right and its impossible to put restrictions on a land border then what follows?
That having different customs regimes on different sides of a land border is impossible?
That the UK must accept the EU customs regime? Or that the EU must accept de facto whatever the UK now goes for? Or that whichever has the laxest regulations and restrictions for agricultural produce and goods will necessarily puncture the border and overwhelm the other?
The EU does have land borders with non-EU countries. And it deals with it by border posts. Eg. between Norway and Sweden and between Switzerland and the countries it borders. It will certainly put border posts in Ireland to try to stop or at least reduce the amount of stuff coming across from a UK that starts having lower standards. Norway and Switzerland have exceptionally close trading relationships with the EU, following EU rules in many areas. Yet they have border posts with the EU, where freight should pass in case checks are required. This shows the difficulty of removing such checks
Meds thinks Brexit is all about UK, nothing else counts as "good faith" t0 not let them have Brexit their way. I am now convinced Brexiters are delusional.
Crankyhawk
Hall of Famer
What if (what follows may sound totally dumb)
- they choose to have no border and a zero tariff?
My limited understanding was that tariffs exist to protect local industry. Now there doesn’t seem to be much of that to protect. So going to a zero tariff on goods and having UK citizens have jobs in service industries/ trades ...
Potential benefits- cheap imports
- they choose to have no border and a zero tariff?
My limited understanding was that tariffs exist to protect local industry. Now there doesn’t seem to be much of that to protect. So going to a zero tariff on goods and having UK citizens have jobs in service industries/ trades ...
Potential benefits- cheap imports
Many issues but 2 main ones.
You will get flooded with cheap imports killing all your domestic industries. UK is not competitive (specially in food production). Second if they have no tariffs then they don't need to sign any FTAs. If they're hoping others will reciprocate they're crazy (I am talking mostly about China and India). When negotiating FTAs you offer reducing tariffs in exchange for the other party opening markets you care about. This is just them throwing away their whole bargaining position.
Crankyhawk
Hall of Famer
What domestic industry though? Thought they all left post the referendum
Agro for example...employs half a million people and is a 10 billion pound industry. Food and drinks combined adds 25 billion. Car industry will be deeply affected with their supply chain deeply integrated in the EU. Aerospace will be affected, N.I is huge in airline engineering etc etc. Only is Brexiters fantasy land lowering tariffs to zero is the solution to everything. It's a solution to everything if the partner reciprocates, then there is no need for any FTA as there are no barriers to trade...again in their fantasy world.
Crankyhawk
Hall of Famer
Australia seem to have bugger all tariffs and we have adjusted (so it seems)
Australia produces 90 percent of it's own food..has an agro industry which is self sustaining without subsidies, you must factor the weather into it as well, which plays a major post in farming. Australia has a FTA with both US and the entire Asia/Pacific bloc. Both Australia and EU are neogitating a FTA right now, expected to be agreed and signed in the next 6 months. The the EU the biggest our of Foreign Direct investment in Australia.
The EU under MFN have stuff all tariffs on Aussie meat and fish, unlike what Brexiters whinge about all the time. Check it out yourself.
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Crankyhawk
Hall of Famer
perhaps UK will claim to not recognise EU as EU but only as individual countries to apply different rules?
