Ukraine on verge of civil war?

[Zidane98]

you keep missing the point
on one hand you say that news service is propaganda and on the other you're using it as your evidence even if there's no evidence in that short lol

again we are asking for the evidence.. and you don't get what we are asking you lol

you need to show evidence not show a show you have been discrediting as your evidence when there's no evidence in the story it provides

lol

hilarious watching you

Hahaha so now you are discrediting Russian propaganda media sources as unreliable!

You do realise that could be potentially fatal to your career at the internet research agency over in St Petersburg comrade.

I think this a world first for a reality troll! Congratulations!

 

[smokingjacket]

EDIT:

Anti semitism claims by the Russians refuted by Jewish community in Ukraine:


http://khpg.org/index.php?id=1393978300



Don't let facts get in the way of a good story though.

That article pre-dates the piece I linked (I think) in this thread. It came from the Washington Post and was notable because it included quotes from powerful neoconservative Senators and Congressman who had been very pro-Ukraine but were urging the Ukrainian government to rein in the fascist groups. It also included direct quotes from Ukrainian politicians! Things have changed since 2014. Good resource on civil society in Ukraine though.

Direct & indirect responsibility is a grey area, I agree with you there.

Either way Russia are involved and should take responsibility.

Also no chance the separatists knew how to operate a SAM system. It was a Russian military crew taking orders from separatist commanders. A despicable act when it was known by the Russians / separstists that hundreds of flights every day traverse the region. They also could have simply downloaded flightradar24 which would have told them pretty quickly that a commercial flight was approaching the area.

You could teach someone how to use one of those SAM systems in a couple of days. The training is more around what you can and can't hit but that comes with intelligence, and as you say, knowing what is and isn't in a flight path.

 

[Procrastinator35]

The point that it was Kiev air-control who sent that plane both off-course & directly into that war zone flight path, still remains unaddressed & unanswered.

That alone remains the most crucial omission in this entire sad & sorrowful affair of U.S deception & intrigue.....What straight talkers would refer to as a swarm of lies & cover-ups right from the get-go.

 

[NTRabbit]

Yes, it certainly is a mystery why that commercial airliner was flying in a heavily trafficked commercial flight path that dozens of planes had already been through that day, and another dozen were on the way to go through afterwards.

Sometimes I wonder how broken a brain has to be to believe the vast trove of ever changing nonsense that the Kremlin rolls out, and why they're so willing to buy into the most fascist state we've seen since at least 1988, and perhaps longer.

 

[Zidane98]

That article pre-dates the piece I linked (I think) in this thread. It came from the Washington Post and was notable because it included quotes from powerful neoconservative Senators and Congressman who had been very pro-Ukraine but were urging the Ukrainian government to rein in the fascist groups. It also included direct quotes from Ukrainian politicians! Things have changed since 2014. Good resource on civil society in Ukraine though.



You could teach someone how to use one of those SAM systems in a couple of days. The training is more around what you can and can't hit but that comes with intelligence, and as you say, knowing what is and isn't in a flight path.

SAM systems have the ability to be connected to ATC with transpoder information fed directly to the missile operators. Safety interlocks then prevent firing upon a commracial aircraft.

That isn't possible when you send a SAM system into another countries territory without telling their ATC. It's a recipe for disaster and should never happen.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Yes, it certainly is a mystery why that commercial airliner was flying in a heavily trafficked commercial flight path that dozens of planes had already been through that day, and another dozen were on the way to go through afterwards.

Sometimes I wonder how broken a brain has to be to believe the vast trove of ever changing nonsense that the Kremlin rolls out, and why they're so willing to buy into the most fascist state we've seen since at least 1988, and perhaps longer.

It was sent off course by 13 kilometres & asked to drop another 2 kilometres in it's flight.....Your criticisms here are nothing more than uninformed empty postulation.

 

[Zidane98]

It was sent off course by 13 kilometres & asked to drop another 2 kilometres in it's flight.....Your criticisms here are nothing more than uninformed empty postulation.

That is an absolute lie not backed up by any factual information at all.

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

That is an absolute lie not backed up by any factual information at all.

you have a shocking record in this thread... sad!

https://www.malaymail.com/s/709529/ukraine-traffic-controllers-instructed-mh17-to-fly-lower-mas-says

it's like everything you say we must assume the opposite!

that's scary for anybody to be so off the mark so often!


you're just gaslighting non stop

 

[Procrastinator35]

you have a shocking record in this thread... sad!

https://www.malaymail.com/s/709529/ukraine-traffic-controllers-instructed-mh17-to-fly-lower-mas-says

it's like everything you say we must assume the opposite!

that's scary for anybody to be so off the mark so often!

you're just gaslighting non stop

It's bit like anything that comes out of Bibi Netanyahu's mouth......Anything he says, you can rest assured that the diametrically opposite is true.

 

[John H]

Exposing Emperor Vlad is lethal, in Syria or elsewhere.

Journalists & Filmmaker murdered while probing Russia’s Wagner ‘mercenaries’

http://khpg.org/en/index.php?id=1533090102

 

[Zidane98]

you have a shocking record in this thread... sad!

https://www.malaymail.com/s/709529/ukraine-traffic-controllers-instructed-mh17-to-fly-lower-mas-says

it's like everything you say we must assume the opposite!

that's scary for anybody to be so off the mark so often!


you're just gaslighting non stop

Once again you show your skills are very limited over at the "internet research agency" in St Petersburg (although you can be forgiven when your wage is only 45000 roubles per month).

Firstly, you've quoted a news report shortly after the tragedy where it is unclear what has happened. Malaysian news won't have access to any sources that could tell it what happened literally the next day at which stage your scumbag filthy fascist separatist mates were holding the bodies and flight recorders of MH17 hostage. So we can discount that.

Secondly, both Ukranian & Russian ATC both provided full access to audio tapes of ATC communications on that day. And just for your perusal those communication transcripts are published in the Dutch Safety Board report on Appendix G (page 38). And no claiming western conspiracy theories on this one - Dutch Safety board is not a criminal investigation - it is simply an investigation to establish the facts of the disaster. Below is a link for you comrade:

https://onderzoeksraad.nl/uploads/p...df?s=AD91F9F49F69CD7DDA39165A3C341DA4DE526466


I'll publish the last twenty minutes of communication for you leading up to the tragedy:

DNP = Dnipro ATC ROS = Rostov ATC MH17 = MH17


13:00:52 MH17 Malaysian one-seven, is level 340 non-standard available?
DNP Malaysian one-seven, stand by
13:01:20 DNP Malaysian one-seven, maintain flight level 330 for a while, 340 zero is not available
MH17 Roger, maintain 330, Malaysian one-seven
13:07:46 DNP Malaysian one-seven, contact Dnipro radar, 135.8 bye
MH17 135.8 Malaysian one-seven, good day
13:08:00 MH17 Dnipro Radar, Malaysian one-seven, flight level 330
DNP Malaysia one-seven, Dnipro radar, good day, radar contact
13:19:00 DNP places call to ROS: ROS So, Dneiper, Rostov one. Can you give a course for Malaysian to Rostov to the ROMEO NOVEMBER DELTA point, we have three converging traffic there.
DNP: To the Malaysian that is seventeen?
ROS: Yes, we will return it then to TIKNA
DNP: Great
ROS: To point RND
DNP: Ok
ROS: Yeah, thanks
13:19:49 DNP: Malaysian one-seven, due traffic proceed direct to ROMEA NOVEMBER DELTA
MH17: ROMEO NOVEMBER DELTA Malaysian one-seven
13:20:00 DNP: Malaysian one-seven, and after point ROMEO NOVEMBER DELTA expect direct to TIKNA
13:21:10 DNP: Malaysian one-seven, how do you read me (repeated 4 times)
13:22:05 DNP rings ROS: Rostov, do you observe the Malaysian seventeen, by the transeponder?
ROS: No, it seems that mark has started to break
DNP: Well, we have the same. And it's not responding to our calls too.


The aircraft was stuck by a missile at 13:20:03 for reference.



So any suggestions that the aircraft was deliberately sent there by Ukrainian ATC are 100% false. MH17 was on its assigned flight plan at its assigned altitude. You can also view flight plan information in the same factual report.

It really is shocking how much you are prepared to tell outright lies in order to further an argument for your masters and comrades in arms over at the "internet research agency" in St Petersburg.

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

Exposing Emperor Vlad is lethal, in Syria or elsewhere.

Journalists & Filmmaker murdered while probing Russia’s Wagner ‘mercenaries’

http://khpg.org/en/index.php?id=1533090102

yeah lol

as if...

it's not the first time journalsts have been murdered in Africa

and what were they exposing precisely?

 

[Zidane98]

Only just came across this but it really does show just how heinous the Russians and their separatist mates are:

https://m.dw.com/en/russia-blocks-u...3424?xtref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com.au%2F

Blocking a resolution to condemn the shelling and murder of 30 civilians is about as low as it gets for Russia.

I wish the brave souls of the few left in Donbass all the best in their struggle against the separatist / russian military hybrid forces.

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

keep digging buddy

we've seen your quality of material in this thread
way out of your depth

 

[Zidane98]

keep digging buddy

we've seen your quality of material in this thread
way out of your depth

Not a surprising response from yourself - empty rhetoric with no facts to back it up.

Is that the only response you could come up with over at the "internet research agency" in St Petersburg eh comrade?

Do you have no shame that your Russian mates blocked UN condemnation of your rebel mates shelling Maruiopol and murdering 30 civilians?

I guess it isn't surprising when you condone Russia's disgraceful actions over MH17.

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

what you're missing is the western Kiev Nazi project for Ukraine is over
lots of offended in the West and the Nazi supporters

not long now..

by the way Crimea was is and will always be Russian

get over it!

In the meantime economic collapse

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

let's go over Ukraine and what happened happening once more
unusual

West media gives the other side

The bit that makes more sense

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.../2014/apr/30/russia-ukraine-war-kiev-conflict

Nazi cheerleaders can't shrug this off

what's amazing is how do many Nazis from WW2 are still around in West Ukraine

weird considering the time elapsed and the Soviet era

what is your response to the extreme Nazi element in West Ukraine my friend?
thoughts?

 

[Zidane98]

Every country has extreme right thugs. We've got Neo Nazis here in Australia. It would be silly to say the country is extreme right in general.

Ukraine like Australia & Russia has far right neo Nazi thugs. It is only a very small amount though and Jewish leaders are on record in Ukraine saying Russian claims are ridiculous.

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

but every country uses extreme right thugs as their shock troops

listen up my friend

are you saying Russians are not being murdered in East Ukraine by the ukienazis and hard core Kiev military personnel?
is this what you're saying?
most is the Ukranian military won't even go fight the Russian side of Ukraine
they know that going to war against the kievrus brothers serves nobody any good

which is why the western Ukraine puppet regime can't do anything against Russian farmers and miners from the east
but if you're seriously suggesting Kiev isn't targeting the Russian Ukrainians and have killed thousands we can delve into the too!



The thing is my friend... it's over!
The West can't do much more in Ukraine
it's up to President porky and some Ukrainian oligarchs and the fascists plus their supporters

unsustainable

plus do you ever see a day kiev will wrestle crimea back from its rightful owners?

seriously?

I think everybody understands what's going on in Ukraine now
Kiev is getting less and less support because it's never going to swing and the West is realising what an expensive exercise this western backed coup is!

nobody has the stomach to keep this foolhardy neo-con exercise going!

though some won't stop because they're in too deep!

but they don't have long to go! lol

when the dust is settled they will run like rats!

I don't see Russia attack Kiev
I do see Kiev attacking the Russian side of Ukraine

anyway.. good luck!

unfortunately for the West they don't have an Isis like boots on the ground mercenary army

only the Nazis!
not enough!

if Russia wanted to invade Ukraine it would be in Kiev for lunch

 

[Procrastinator35]

What is your response to the extreme Nazi element in West Ukraine my friend?
thoughts?

No different to those in the Pentagon, I'd of thought.

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

No different to those in the Pentagon, I'd of thought.

yeah Israel and USA don't have a problem going into bed with anybody as long as they're their useful idiots lol

The thing is most Ukrainians are waking up to all this

 

[awaremind]

5th anniversary of the burning alive of 40 Ukrainian pro Russians in trade union building in odessa by actual Nazis, backed by Obama regime. If anyone is wondering what ledto theloss of crimea and donbass for Ukraine, this is it.

 

[Zidane98]

5th anniversary of the burning alive of 40 Ukrainian pro Russians in trade union building in odessa by actual Nazis, backed by Obama regime. If anyone is wondering what ledto theloss of crimea and donbass for Ukraine, this is it.

It is shocking that you continue to peddle blatant Russian propaganda.

https://informnapalm.org/en/more-evidence-against-incendiary-lies-about-odessa-2-may/

Russia has lost Ukraine for good, it can no longer rape and pillage its neighbour for its own personal gain. Donbass is not lost, Russia wants nothing to do with it apart from undermining Ukraine by engaging it in a frozen conflict.

 

[awaremind]

So are youdenying nazis who were never brought to justice burned men and women alive? This is a shocking act that very well illustrates the media and democrats and the rest of the swamps hypocritical attack on trump, Russia and all the deplorables who are being called nazis for not swallowing the tripe the media spponfeeds the masses like swine. Real nazis running riot! Still part of the defence forces... and they were the good guys ! Too much doublethink for me. If we are just playing real politic just admit it, and stop being pussies at home too.

 

[Zidane98]

So are youdenying nazis who were never brought to justice burned men and women alive? This is a shocking act that very well illustrates the media and democrats and the rest of the swamps hypocritical attack on trump, Russia and all the deplorables who are being called nazis for not swallowing the tripe the media spponfeeds the masses like swine. Real nazis running riot! Still part of the defence forces... and they were the good guys ! Too much doublethink for me. If we are just playing real politic just admit it, and stop being pussies at home too.

Because that's not what happened.

As for actual Nazis in Ukraine here's one strongly supported by your Russian mates:

http://khpg.org/en/index.php?id=1394442656

Why is it not surprising that you've never had an issue with him or mentioned him. It also isn't surprising that you have no interest in bringing the Russians to justice for shooting 298 innocent lives out of the sky in Donbass with zero justification.

You don't give a shit about justice and what is right, you only care for promoting Russian propaganda.