Mega Thread VICBias - Genuine Discussion

[Walshawk]

Tweaks to reduce the travel burden on the expansion clubs.

She. We go to 19 teams there will be 19 more games (assuming 24 games season). Nine of these are gather round. Of the other 10, play three derbies (WC v Freo, Syd v GWS, BL v GC, no SA as they get GR). So, that reduces travel for all expansions clubs by a game. Maybe TAS v Hawks as well. That leaves six games to be shared between Darwin and Canberra so GC and GWS can stop selling home games which increases travel. So, including GR, that is expansions teams ravelling 14 times less without Vic clubs needed to play home games interstate.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

I'm not sure if it would work when you tried to pencil it in.

I think all Vic clubs currently play 9 or less home games at their home ground. If you wanted to get close to levelling the travel, you'd move the two home games they play away from their home ground out of the state to also help grow the game.

I don't think the MCG tenants would mind too much as they already either sell home games already or don't like going to Marvel. The Marvel tenants would hate it - as would the Cats - as they'd lose a couple of blockbusters at the G

I had a bit of a quick play but it would need more thrown at it than 10 minutes of my time with pen and paper but yes, youre on the right track in making Vic away games genuine out of Vic.

Obviously not your Pies V Blues blockbusters but Cats V Dogs where Geelong is the drawcard for Neutrals or Pies V Hawks at AO or Optus, heartland games where neutrals who once followed either in the VFL days will turn out.

Theres got to be a better balance but as with any problem, youve got to acknowledge it before you can fix it and then you have to be genuine in finding a fairer result.

 

[sr36]

Tweaks to reduce the travel burden on the expansion clubs.

She. We go to 19 teams there will be 19 more games (assuming 24 games season). Nine of these are gather round. Of the other 10, play three derbies (WC v Freo, Syd v GWS, BL v GC, no SA as they get GR). So, that reduces travel for all expansions clubs by a game. Maybe TAS v Hawks as well. That leaves six games to be shared between Darwin and Canberra so GC and GWS can stop selling home games which increases travel. So, including GR, that is expansions teams ravelling 14 times less without Vic clubs needed to play home games interstate.

There won't be 19 more games - we won't be able to play 23 games each - doesn't work. If we go back to 22 games, it'll only be 2 extra games for the year.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

Do we do also the same in reverse?
All non-Vic based clubs play only 4 or 5 home games against clubs travelling from another state?

Non Vics get 11 home games, take 1 for showdown, derby, Q clash cross town rivalry, split the other 10, 7 against Vic, 3 against non Vic rotated annually.
So Port play 7 Vics at home, 3 of the other 6 non Vics home and Crows, 11 home games.

 

[VicBased]

Why do they need airline backing if they are playing all their games in Victoria?

WA clubs should be trying to get something realistic such as no 5 day breaks if a team has travelled to or from WA. Something that advantages all teams but WA clubs more often. I think everyone would think that was fair enough.

Airline backing in sponsorship, if your not flying they won't want to give you any money.
I notice you did not mention the new stadiums you will need.?
Unless you plan on only going with three? How would Collingwood ever find Kardinia Park?

 

[Carringbush2010]

Theres nothing wrong with the current model, it just needs tweaking to give better balance for all.

Yet there's so much hand wringing in this thread, some to the point they believe it's a conspiracy.

Most non vics complain that there's 10 clubs in vic, that's obviously because it's the same comp just expanded.

Outline your tweaks.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

Airline backing in sponsorship, if your not flying they won't want to give you any money.
I notice you did not mention the new stadiums you will need.?
Unless you plan on only going with three? How would Collingwood ever find Kardinia Park?

Yes, on weeks where Geelong are away youre playing 5 games in 2 venues.
Then theres the melts of Geelong getting 9 genuine home games at the cattery whereas Pies play half their season at the G against co tennants.
And all that on top of dropping to an 18 round season with associated loss of gate earnings.

Please do it Vics, the implosion would be delicious.

 

[jakson68]

Non Vics get 11 home games, take 1 for showdown, derby, Q clash cross town rivalry, split the other 10, 7 against Vic, 3 against non Vic rotated annually.
So Port play 7 Vics at home, 3 of the other 6 non Vics home and Crows, 11 home games.

So you get 11 home games, which is 11 home ground advantages.

This season, we get a home ground advantage on 4 occasions.
Vic teams may not travel as much but our actual home ground advantage is very minimal.

Swings and round abouts.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

Yet there's so much hand wringing in this thread, some to the point they believe it's a conspiracy.

Most non vics complain that there's 10 clubs in vic, that's obviously because it's the same comp just expanded.

Outline your tweaks.

I have, get ALL 10 Vic clubs out of Victoria against the 8 non Vics before any other matchups are considered in the draw.

 

[VicBased]

So you get 11 home games, which is 11 home ground advantages.

This season, we get a home ground advantage on 4 occasions.
Vic teams may not travel as much but our actual home ground advantage is very minimal.

Swings and round abouts.

The bullshit of real or not real HGA is garbage. Collingwood play 14 sometimes 15 games on the MCG.
That is advantage right there, especially leading into a GF.
You have been trying to explain that away for decades.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I have, get ALL 10 Vic clubs out of Victoria against the 8 non Vics before any other matchups are considered in the draw.

Ok, from a vic based vic club fan pov, that's ok so long as they can see their club play as often as they do now.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

So you get 11 home games, which is 11 home ground advantages.

This season, we get a home ground advantage on 4 occasions.
Vic teams may not travel as much but our actual home ground advantage is very minimal.

Swings and round abouts.

Then play us and Marvel tennants at more of your home games.
We'll gladly come to you, if you come to us.
Its a win, win, you get more genuine home games, we get more exposure to the G.
But then you'll have to trim co tennant blockbusters, which shouldnt be a problem if hga is a real concern..

 

[PenfoldsFan]

Ok, from a vic based vic club fan pov, that's ok so long as they can see their club play as often as they do now.

No way, why should you get to go to 15 games down the road when I only get 11

 

[Walshawk]

There won't be 19 more games - we won't be able to play 23 games each - doesn't work. If we go back to 22 games, it'll only be 2 extra games for the year.

They won’t cut gather round. It will be 24 rounds. I mean 19 neutral games. There will be 21 more games. 11 Tas home games and a further 10 neutral (currently 9 @ GR).

 

[jakson68]

The bullshit of real or not real HGA is garbage. Collingwood play 14 sometimes 15 games on the MCG.
That is advantage right there, especially leading into a GF.
You have been trying to explain that away for decades.

Yes and it is mostly against other tenants, so no advantage for 4 points.
Astated, we play 4 games against non tenants.
How many games do you play at home against non tenants?

It is an advantage for you and it is an advantage for us.
There are advantages and disadvantages for all.

But certain sides have chips on their shoulders and refuse to look at the bigger picture.

 

[Carringbush2010]

No way, why should you get to go to 15 games down the road when I only get 11

Because they always have, that's why it is the way it is now. Remember it's an expanded vfl, that's why it is vic centred.

Why should clubs who've been around for more than 120 years in a comp that's expanded just sh*t in their fans and members faces in the name of 'fair' for new clubs entering the league?

Less games the fans and members can go to, then less fans and members.

The clubs wouldn't go for it, let alone HQ

Remember when you said there's nothing wrong with the current model? And now you've come with an example of why it can't be truly equitable.

Anyway watching the crows hopefully slaughter the tiges.

 

[jakson68]

Then play us and Marvel tennants at more of your home games.
We'll gladly come to you, if you come to us.
Its a win, win, you get more genuine home games, we get more exposure to the G.
But then you'll have to trim co tennant blockbusters, which shouldnt be a problem if hga is a real concern..

I have read your post three times and still have no idea what you are waffling on about.
You say come to you - Happy to do so, as out Adelaide Oval record is great.
You say you will come to us - We would rather play you at the G than Marvel.
Not sure what you mean about the co tennant blockbuster - Though remember it is those blockbusters that pay your way.

 

[sr36]

They won’t cut gather round. It will be 24 rounds. I mean 19 neutral games. There will be 21 more games. 11 Tas home games and a further 10 neutral (currently 9 @ GR).

If they move to 24 games each - it'll be 21 more games - it'd give them some scope to play around - as they'd need to effectively have another round like gather round that isn't home and away.

 

[doppleganger]

No way, why should you get to go to 15 games down the road when I only get 11

The key tenant of any home and away competition is the ground.

The premier league has a perfect balanced home and away competition. All teams have a single preferred home ground.

All teams play all other 19 teams on their home deck, and then also play all 19 teams away on their deck.

As their are 7 London based teams in the EPL, a London based team plays 26 games in London and 12 outside London. This is different to a one team city like Newcastle, who only get to play 19 games in Neecastle and 19 games outside of Newcastle.

Their is no campaign for London teams to have to give up London based games to make it fair.

As they adopt the perfect home and away fixture. No competition anywhere in the world attempts to address geography. Remote based teams ALWAYS travel further for away games than teams based in population hubs.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

I have read your post three times and still have no idea what you are waffling on about.
You say come to you - Happy to do so, as out Adelaide Oval record is great.
You say you will come to us - We would rather play you at the G than Marvel.
Not sure what you mean about the co tennant blockbuster - Though remember it is those blockbusters that pay your way.

Youre whinging that many of your home games give you no advantage as theyre against co tennants ie. Richmond, Melbourne.
You cant cry no advantage then say those matchups pay the bills so they have to stay.

 

[VicBased]

Yes and it is mostly against other tenants, so no advantage for 4 points.
Astated, we play 4 games against non tenants.
How many games do you play at home against non tenants?

It is an advantage for you and it is an advantage for us.
There are advantages and disadvantages for all.

But certain sides have chips on their shoulders and refuse to look at the bigger picture.

Collingwood carry the chip and you fans believe it .
You beat up on the lower based tenants and believe you have no advantage?
Deluded.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

The key tenant of any home and away competition is the ground.

The premier league has a perfect balanced home and away competition. All teams have a single preferred home ground.

All teams play all other 19 teams on their home deck, and then also play all 19 teams away on their deck.

As their are 7 London based teams in the EPL, a London based team plays 26 games in London and 12 outside London. This is different to a one team city like Newcastle, whoonly get to play 19 games in Neecastle and 19 games outside of Newcastle.

Their is no campaign for London teams to have to give up London based games to make it fair.

As they adopt the perfect home and away fixture. No competition anywhere in the world attempts to address geography. Remote based teams ALWAYS travel further for away games than teams based in population hubs.

Probably because they all identify as English, you mob think youre a breed of your own with the rest of us below you.

 

[jakson68]

Collingwood carry the chip and you fans believe it .
You beat up on the lower based tenants and believe you have no advantage?
Deluded.

Well obviously when you are reining premiers everyone is lower based tenants.

If we beat other tenants, it is because we are a better team, not any ground advantage.

What crap you guys feed yourselves.

 

[doppleganger]

Probably because they all identify as English, you mob think youre a breed of your own with the rest of us below you.

More likely they actually understand the only real important factor is getting ALL your home games on your own home ground.

Newcastle and Arsenal are both disadvantaged when playing Chelsea at Stamford Bridge.

Only an idiot would try to claim it as a London based game, thus it is an advantage to Arsenal.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

Well obviously when you are reining premiers everyone is lower based tenants.

If we beat other tenants, it is because we are a better team, not any ground advantage.

What crap you guys feed yourselves.

Reigning 9th you mean, 2023 is so last year.