Mega Thread VICBias - Genuine Discussion

[sr36]

It's all relative though, yeah I could say Lions, Saints, North, Bulldogs, Suns, Giants because that is the order of the bottom six... but strictly speaking they aren't poor, it's that the rest are just that more wealthy. None of them are at risk of folding that's for sure - which underlines and reinforces my ultimate point, why do some of those clubs get help with on field assistance when the off-field risk is low? But others do not?

Then again I say all these things and then logically I'm asking for Carlton and Freo to get assistance who are 4th and 3rd for revenue respectively, which probably doesn't sound right. Actually think I've talked myself out why I'm slightly miffed and now no longer care lol

New rule - if you want to be talked about, get good it can happen.

The draft pick assistance packages apply solely to on-field performance. THey're there because the AFL want all clubs to be competitive on th field. Not sure why you're mixing it in with revenue raised. To get an assistance package, you first need to apply for one. Neither WCE or Freo have done so.

Why would Freo get one - they played finals in 2022 and probably will again this year - or at least get bloody close. Why would WCE have gotten one - their very long stretch in the top half only finished 3 seasons ago.

 

[Jez1974]

So you start with...."There is absolutely no reason why WCE should be talking about assistance"

Then go on with....I’m not sure what assistance you’re referring to.

Nothing like a whole proof argument lol

 

[doppleganger]

West Coast and Freo do, but due to their wealth receive on the lower end of the scale.

Reality is, the richer you are the less likely you are to get priority picks and onfield assistance. The two shouldn't be linked, but seemingly they are.

Why is it that West Coast haven't already received a priority pick?

West Coast have received priority picks in the past, they drafted Judd, Shuey and Darling using priority picks.

If comparing to North, who recieved priority pick assistance at the end of 2023. North were last in finals in 2015 and won less than 5 games in 2020, 2021, 2022 and 2023.

So if North is the comparison to now deserve a priority pick, WC have a fair way to go yet to deserve on-field assistance.

But yes, just VICBias

 

[Obeanie1]

I know exactly what it would be like without travel.

There would be a 10 team VFL competition.

Not for long.

The last time that almost went broke. Remember.

 

[Obeanie1]

West Coast have received priority picks in the past, they drafted Judd, Shuey and Darling using priority picks.

If comparing to North, who recieved priority pick assistance at the end of 2023. North were last in finals in 2015 and won less than 5 games in 2020, 2021, 2022 and 2023.

So if North is the comparison to now deserve a priority pick, WC have a fair way to go yet to deserve on-field assistance.

But yes, just VICBias

Wrong about Judd.

So Pies look like landing another gun father son in 2025. How many will that be in the current team?

 

[Walshawk]

Cochrane from GC just on SEn discussing this. His first point was that non- Vic teams need more games in their home state. Strange call given they play two in Darwin. There is a start.

 

[AstonSouffle]

West Coast have received priority picks in the past, they drafted Judd, Shuey and Darling using priority picks.

If comparing to North, who recieved priority pick assistance at the end of 2023. North were last in finals in 2015 and won less than 5 games in 2020, 2021, 2022 and 2023.

So if North is the comparison to now deserve a priority pick, WC have a fair way to go yet to deserve on-field assistance.

But yes, just VICBias

Champ I said it wasn't VicBias more that the system seems to reward poorer clubs, which happen to be in a certain place (a.k.a Victoria). Is it VicBias? No not really, but it's still annoying.

You would have been someone that said WA teams get it easy because of the 12 business class flights lol.

There's bigger fish to fry anyway, people selling the soul of the game to private schools. It's not the people's game, it's the game for the rich. Problem in WA just as much as Victoria. Ultimately I care about the health of the game because currently it is not strong, WA being strong helps the game, as does Victoria. Or how seemingly an 18 year old that didn't get drafted with an extra year of development would probably be good enough to get drafted, this would be in exceedance of 50 + people a year that would fit this category.

Wish I had time to do the data because I have a hypothesis that per capita Victoria is not producing enough high quality draftees. Not VicBias lol, just something I've noticed over the journey that it makes little sense for the heartland to not have a bolted on cannot move Victorian top 10 draftees every year, so either the other states over perform (should be getting rewarded if this is the case) or Victoria regularly under perform on output. But I could do the data and be completely wrong!

All in all, I care about the game on a national scale - some of you talk as if it's a Victorian game first and everyone else is lucky to play it. So don't be surprised such an awful condescending attitude doesn't get a warm response.

 

[Obeanie1]

So now more Collingwood interstate travel is suddenly an advantage

So which is it. Is interstate travel an advantage or a disadvantage?

Methinks you just have a huge case of butt hǔrt from last year's GF.

What is the flight time from Melbourne to Gold Coast?

SFA.

Do it in the crap winter months it's a little holiday.

When the Pies play in Geelong v Geelong that's equalisation. Not playing Geelong at "home" at your home ground.

A trip to Northern Antartica? Go play a home game in Tasmania or Darwin and get cooked.

Not getting the last two months tucked up in bed at home instead of dealing with bleeding corks and bruised sore bodies on long haul flights post game. That's the killer disadvantage. Science has proved that. Common sense should as well.

But one eyed supporters dont look at science nor use common sense.

 

[doppleganger]

Wrong about Judd.

So Pies look like landing another gun father son in 2025. How many will that be in the current team?

2001 - Freo, StK and WC all received pre first round priority picks.

Freo traded theirs to Hawks, they took Hodge
StK took Ball
WC took Judd

Then the normal 1st round started.

Mick McGuane's kid....sure could be solid, or could be added to the Brown Bros, Will Kelly, Barham as kids who did nothing in recent seasons.

 

[doppleganger]

Champ I said it wasn't VicBias more that the system seems to reward poorer clubs, which happen to be in a certain place (a.k.a Victoria). Is it VicBias? No not really, but it's still annoying.

The draft concessions are their to balance out poor on-field performance.

It is Melbourne based teams who perform the worst during H&A.

IMHO a huge part of that is the AFL Policy that deliberately reduced home ground advantage just for those teams.

 

[sr36]

The draft concessions are their to balance out poor on-field performance.

It is Melbourne based teams who perform the worst during H&A.

IMHO a huge part of that is the AFL Policy that deliberately reduced home ground advantage just for those teams.

Plus North's assitance package was much smaller than Gold Coast's - so no idea why this is in a vicbias thread at all.

 

[LordLucifer]

What is the flight time from Melbourne to Gold Coast?

Flight duration
Melbourne, Australia (all airports) to Gold Coast, Australia (OOL)
2h 5m

 

[Back One Out]

Cochrane from GC just on SEn discussing this. His first point was that non- Vic teams need more games in their home state. Strange call given they play two in Darwin. There is a start.

Absolutely laughable to hear these suggestions that Victorian teams should play one or two of their "home games" away at the stadiums of their interstate opponents in order make the fixture "fairer" for non-Victorian teams. Good luck getting the Vic teams to go along with that.


What a joke!

It must be 'shroom season

 

[tombomb]

Cochrane from GC just on SEn discussing this. His first point was that non- Vic teams need more games in their home state. Strange call given they play two in Darwin. There is a start.

I switched off after about point 3, whatever that was - give everyone an academy I think.

If that is the level of shite ideas that the AFL are having to deal with, then I am not surprised that the AFL take forever to make decisions on these things.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Not for long.

The last time that almost went broke. Remember.

I'm going to fairly assume that you're alluding that a VFL comp now would also go broke, this assumes that vic clubs would go on a $ war in order to win flags or vic fans would abandon a 10 club VFL.

1/ The flag war using $ outside any clubs given means would not happen now, A/ because there's a cap on spending like there wasn't last time and B/ Clubs just wouldn't over spend to an existential point.

2/ If your allusion that vic fans would abandon their clubs purely because it's not a national comp (read expanded vfl), well that's just absurd.

IF we were to have a vfl again, with only vic clubs there's a snowflakes chance in hell it'd go broke.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

I'm going to fairly assume that you're alluding that a VFL comp now would also go broke, this assumes that vic clubs would go on a $ war in order to win flags or vic fans would abandon a 10 club VFL.

1/ The flag war using $ outside any clubs given means would not happen now, A/ because there's a cap on spending like there wasn't last time and B/ Clubs just wouldn't over spend to an existential point.

2/ If your allusion that vic fans would abandon their clubs purely because it's not a national comp (read expanded vfl), well that's just absurd.

IF we were to have a vfl again, with only vic clubs there's a snowflakes chance in hell it'd go broke.

Have you asked the players of the 10 Vic clubs if they'll take significant pay cuts to play in this VFL league?
Because theres no way 5 games per week will attract anywhere near the TV money that a national 9 game comp does.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Have you asked the players of the 10 Vic clubs if they'll take significant pay cuts to play in this VFL league?
Because theres no way 5 games per week will attract anywhere near the TV money that a national 9 game comp does.

No but would probably attract more tv attention than any other league because the largest market would be watching it.

There's no reason the tv numbers would drop off altogether, vic fans would still watch their clubs and non vic fans would still watch their clubs. If it's a conference model with a champions play off at the end of it, there'd be a body selling the product to broadcasters, like now, the AFL.

So if you're right, which is assuming that fans will just lose interest coz it's no longer an expanded vfl, then the players could either walk or take what they're offered.

So in short if you're right, they're gonna take a pay cut regardless, maybe more in a non vic because non vic doesn't have the population to bolster the tv numbers that vic does.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

No but would probably attract more tv attention than any other league because the largest market would be watching it.

There's no reason the tv numbers would drop off altogether, vic fans would still watch their clubs and non vic fans would still watch their clubs. If it's a conference model with a champions play off at the end of it, there'd be a body selling the product to broadcasters, like now, the AFL.

So if you're right, which is assuming that fans will just lose interest coz it's no longer an expanded vfl, then the players could either walk or take what they're offered.

So in short if you're right, they're gonna take a pay cut regardless, maybe more in a non vic because non vic doesn't have the population to bolster the tv numbers that vic does.

There will be no conference style system, its either 18+ national comp or a 10 team VFL with us all returning to state leagues.
Theres more chance of you playing home games at Optus than either of those as its the easiest option so lets cut the crap.

So again, there is no way 5 games in your league will attract enough TV revenue to pay what players want.
Furthermore, it would be a logistical nightmare to unwind all the current contracts to align with a reduced revenue base before the league went broke.
And youre dreaming if you think non Vic fans will pay to watch your mob play in any worthwhile numbers.

Now, get back to us when youve surveyed enough Vic club players to gauge how content they'll be with their contracts chopped.

 

[VicBased]

Have you asked the players of the 10 Vic clubs if they'll take significant pay cuts to play in this VFL league?
Because theres no way 5 games per week will attract anywhere near the TV money that a national 9 game comp does.

Also, the advertising money would fly out the window.
Let alone airline backing and the new stadium they would need.
Broke in the first decade I would say.

 

[Sector 7G]

Also, the advertising money would fly out the window.
Let alone airline backing and the new stadium they would need.
Broke in the first decade I would say.

Why do they need airline backing if they are playing all their games in Victoria?

WA clubs should be trying to get something realistic such as no 5 day breaks if a team has travelled to or from WA. Something that advantages all teams but WA clubs more often. I think everyone would think that was fair enough.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

The easiest way to blance travel is to have Vic clubs leave Victoria as many times as we travel or as near to as possible.
So when they draw up the schedule start by pencilling in 10 of 11 non Vic club home games against Vic clubs, straight away you have 10 vic clubs playing 80 interstate games compared to our 8 playing 60 and a better balance than currently.
Then schedule the big Vic blockbusters in their home games and have us play other non Vic clubs in our away games and then fill in any blanks.

 

[Carringbush2010]

There will be no conference style system,

Well there's 3 options.

1/ The status quo, which you don't like
2/ Your option, which would mean that all leagues suffer financially, less the vic one coz it has the largest market.
3/ A state conference system overseen by a governing body, like the AFL do now. In which case the vic clubs would lose zero public interest, don't know how it would be for the non vic clubs. Up to their fan bases, I'm guessing no losses of fan base either.

So if it's not the status quo it's sure as sh*t won't be your option

its either 18+ national comp or a 10 team VFL with us all returning to state leagues.

Which as you've pointed out would lose tv money, coz it's not part of a conference, so let's cut the crap your option won't be happening

Theres more chance of you playing home games at Optus than either of those as its the easiest option so lets cut the crap.

Lol.

So again, there is no way 5 games in your league will attract enough TV revenue to pay what players want.

You realize that this would be the same for all leagues yeah? Vic league would garner more tv watchers than the others, coz there's more vics than non vics that follow footy.

In fact, vic outnumber all other footy states and territories combined by more than a million people.

And youre dreaming if you think non Vic fans will pay to watch your mob play in any worthwhile numbers.

Never said they would, we don't need you, you go watch your sanfl. See how many tv numbers they get compared to vic, you're dreamin if you think it'll compare.

Now, get back to us when youve surveyed enough Vic club players to gauge how content they'll be with their contracts chopped.

Don't need to.

It's either accept the status quo or don't.

Like I said earlier, if the 'national' comp were to split into to state leagues, every player loses, less so the ones playing for vic clubs.

So get back to us when you decide to accept what you don't like or don't accept it.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

Well there's 3 options.

1/ The status quo, which you don't like
2/ Your option, which would mean that all leagues suffer financially, less the vic one coz it has the largest market.
3/ A state conference system overseen by a governing body, like the AFL do now. In which case the vic clubs would lose zero public interest, don't know how it would be for the non vic clubs. Up to their fan bases, I'm guessing no losses of fan base either.

So if it's not the status quo it's sure as sh*t won't be your option

Which as you've pointed out would lose tv money, coz it's not part of a conference, so let's cut the crap your option won't be happening

Lol.

You realize that this would be the same for all leagues yeah? Vic league would garner more tv watchers than the others, coz there's more vics than non vics that follow footy.

In fact, vic outnumber all other footy states and territories combined by more than a million people.

Never said they would, we don't need you, you go watch your sanfl. See how many tv numbers they get compared to vic, you're dreamin if you think it'll compare.

Don't need to.

It's either accept the status quo or don't.

Like I said earlier, if the 'national' comp were to split into to state leagues, every player loses, less so the ones playing for vic clubs.

So get back to us when you decide to accept what you don't like or don't accept it.

Theres nothing wrong with the current model, it just needs tweaking to give better balance for all.

 

[Grin]

The easiest way to blance travel is to have Vic clubs leave Victoria as many times as we travel or as near to as possible.
So when they draw up the schedule start by pencilling in 10 of 11 non Vic club home games against Vic clubs, straight away you have 10 vic clubs playing 80 interstate games compared to our 8 playing 60 and a better balance than currently.
Then schedule the big Vic blockbusters in their home games and have us play other non Vic clubs in our away games and then fill in any blanks.

Do we do also the same in reverse?
All non-Vic based clubs play only 4 or 5 home games against clubs travelling from another state?

 

[sr36]

The easiest way to blance travel is to have Vic clubs leave Victoria as many times as we travel or as near to as possible.
So when they draw up the schedule start by pencilling in 10 of 11 non Vic club home games against Vic clubs, straight away you have 10 vic clubs playing 80 interstate games compared to our 8 playing 60 and a better balance than currently.
Then schedule the big Vic blockbusters in their home games and have us play other non Vic clubs in our away games and then fill in any blanks.

I'm not sure if it would work when you tried to pencil it in.

I think all Vic clubs currently play 9 or less home games at their home ground. If you wanted to get close to levelling the travel, you'd move the two home games they play away from their home ground out of the state to also help grow the game.

I don't think the MCG tenants would mind too much as they already either sell home games already or don't like going to Marvel. The Marvel tenants would hate it - as would the Cats - as they'd lose a couple of blockbusters at the G