Voss in 2013 (aka 'the Voss megathread')

[Duritz]

I think we should go with an untried, ex champion of the club, and not bother interviewing anyone else.

 

[sonofabeams]

I see this written a bit and I don't agree with it. I think there is an obvious "style" that Voss wants us to play. It involves quick, accurate movement of the footy, using the corridor as much as possible and utilising run and carry out of defence to open up the opposition. When we play well, that style is quite obvious. When we play poorly, we look like an unorganised rabble.

Instead of questioning whether there is a plan, we should be asking these questions?

1. Is it a good game plan in modern footy?

2. Do we have the personnel to carry it out?

3. Are the players prepared to follow the plan?

4. Is the coach the right man to institute the plan on a weekly basis?

5. Is the plan flexible enough to allow for alternate styles of play when Plan A doesn't work?


And my answers:

1. Maybe. It is not dissimilar to what North utilise. I'd prefer a method that relies on winning the footy in the middle, than assuming it will end up in our defensive half and building from there.

2. I think our defensive group lacks quality rebounding players and I think our midfielders lack players with penetration - either by way of speed or kicking. You need these things if you are going to play the Voss style of footy. So, it is a no from me - I think we've recruited recently knowing these deficiencies (Mayes, Polec, Docherty, Yeo etc) but you can't expect 18-19yos to come in and replicate what Hawthorn get from Birchall, Smith etc or what Sydney get from Shaw, Malceski, Jetta etc. What the plan does do is hide the fact that we don't have key forwards. You are relying on speed of counter-attack to open up options - we've seen we play our best when guys like Bewick, Green, Zorko, McGrath get on the end of quick movement of the footy. So it is a potentially successful plan on the basis that we don't have a good tall forward structure. But there is still too much else missing from the side to make it work against quality sides, every week.

3. That has to be questioned because the way we performed in rounds 1 and 4 was deplorable.

4. ???

5. No.

Point 5 is the main point, there doesnt seem to be a plan b,c or d. you cant just go into matches with plan A and thats it.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Point 5 is the main point, there doesnt seem to be a plan b,c or d. you cant just go into matches with plan A and thats it.

I made the same observation to the mate I went with on Sunday night. Voss is far too one dimensional as a game day coach.

 

[lionbear]

I most probably am being harsh on Eade, but having watched him over 15 years I am not a fan of his coaching at all, (I Think he was a wonderful player, and yes I know he delivered the first only only Brisbane Bears Premiership prior to the merger), he reminds me a lot of Wallace, great with he Media and because of that avoids harsh assessment of his coaching that other coaches do receive, but did have the ability to finish higher on the ladder than what Wallace did.

If we were to go after Eade, I would want a quality assistant with him with a succession plan in place, he is 55, so 3 to 5 years with the number 2 ready to go would be the only way I would go down the path of Rodney Eade.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter what I think, and reality is, Collingwood are throwing so much coin at him, I can't see him leaving the Lexus Centre any time soon.

 

[TheBiz]

I think we should go with an untried, ex champion of the club, and not bother interviewing anyone else.

are you telling me that other clubs interview potential coaches before hiring? sounds silly

 

[POBT]

Point 5 is the main point, there doesnt seem to be a plan b,c or d. you cant just go into matches with plan A and thats it.

I made the same observation to the mate I went with on Sunday night. Voss is far too one dimensional as a game day coach.

Alternatively, if our players can't manage to implement plan A, are they simply not ready for plans B, C or D? I don't have a lot of faith in our ability to implement our first game plan, let alone the backup arrangements!

 

[chopperduck]

I think it's more important to push your game plan on the game rather than have to chop and change it. That's giving into the opposition a bit and letting them dictate for my liking. Upon saying that, there are times in a game where you need to adjust things, and i think we simply aren't good at doing it, more so than Voss not teaching it. Voss is constantly banging on about being able to absorb momentum when it's with the other team, and stopping them from slamming on 5 or 6 goals. Obviously when everything is going the oppositions way, you don't try run it wildly down the middle of the field and risk a turn over. It is this side of our game we can't get right. When we are under pressure, we aren't being smart enough with it or working hard enough when we have it to weather the storm and build some momentum back our way. It is a counter punching style we are playing, scoring from turn over with quick ball movement via the middle, but when we need to simply go coast to coast when the defensive is already set up, we aren't lowering the eyes or providing any leads or movement. There is no run and carry because no one is moving to allow it to happen. The more we move the ball, even if it is 20-30m at a time, it makes the defense move and re-position, and it is in this time that you can cut them up through the middle or find someone who has got away from their opponent.

Work rate and smarter ball usage will see us have a massive improvement. It isn't even skill level, we aren't picking the right option in the first place. If the other team is smashing you, hot tip, don't kick the ball to them.

 

[Eons]

Alternatively, if our players can't manage to implement plan A, are they simply not ready for plans B, C or D? I don't have a lot of faith in our ability to implement our first game plan, let alone the backup arrangements!

Malthouse said some interesting things a couple of weeks about Carlton/how he coaches. If they're not ready to play plan A, then you have to have b,c,d etc. They may not be ready/up to playing game plan A for many reasons. They don't have the right players that can play the style that's suited to plan A etc. At that point, you find a suitable game plan, whatever that may be for the team based on the cattle you have at your disposal. Voss wants us to play a fast running, free flowing game but we are one of the slower teams in the comp.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

DO NOT CALL EADE, sorry but he is good at finishing fourth, he realised the Bulldogs needed a key forward once the ship had sailed and you look at the mess the Bulldogs are now after he left, no thank you.

If we have to replace Voss, Mark Williams is the main one I would call out of those three.

Roos would be great, but is a pipe dream.

choco would get some enthusiasm into the boys which is much needed

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I think we should go with an untried, ex champion of the club, and not bother interviewing anyone else.

yes, recent success shows that would be the best option

 

[MacMum]

I think we should go with an untried, ex champion of the club, and not bother interviewing anyone else.

The only one I would consider is Browny.......have also thought of an ex coach who I think could do a good job still, one I would also be sort of happy with........Robert Walls. He also has a connection to us.... No others are good enough in my opinion.

..now having said that......I DO NOT want to get rid of Vossy, I want him to come through with our boys all the way ....but I do wonder about the assistants and whether Vossy should go it alone...is that still possible in this day and age?....if not, why not?

p.s...def not Eade from me.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Roos, Eade, Williams and Harvey stand out as the experienced coaches who I'd personally consider as having a bit to offer. Ordered by preference. Not as down on Harvey as some but I'd be looking for close to a full reboot of our football department and that puts him at a disadvantage.

As for the assistants looking to step up, Nathan Bassett and Scott Burns seem to be well credentialed. The latter bumping Voss out of the job would not be without irony.

First preference by a mile would be for Voss to right this ship and have us stick it to a few top 8 teams in rounds 6-14.

Edit: BTW MacMum, Wallsy announced on On the Couch last week that he's retiring from footy altogether this year and moving overseas.

 

[POBT]

Malthouse said some interesting things a couple of weeks about Carlton/how he coaches. If they're not ready to play plan A, then you have to have b,c,d etc. They may not be ready/up to playing game plan A for many reasons. They don't have the right players that can play the style that's suited to plan A etc. At that point, you find a suitable game plan, whatever that may be for the team based on the cattle you have at your disposal.

Interesting Eons. Don't suppose you can point to where Malthouse made those comments? It makes some sense.

Voss wants us to play a fast running, free flowing game but we are one of the slower teams in the comp.

Agree with this. I also think that it is a game plan which would have worked well with Drummond, McGrath, Hanley and Adcock all playing their best footy down back. Right now, our defenders are all either stodgy types or lack experience. The only exception to that is the co-captain who I have not been impressed with this season.

 

[MacMum]

Roos, Eade, Williams and Harvey stand out as the experienced coaches who I'd personally consider as having a bit to offer. Ordered by preference. Not as down on Harvey as some but I'd be looking for close to a full reboot of our football department and that puts him at a disadvantage.

As for the assistants looking to step up, Nathan Bassett and Scott Burns seem to be well credentialed. The latter bumping Voss out of the job would not be without irony.

First preference by a mile would be for Voss to right this ship and have us stick it to a few top 8 teams in rounds 6-14.

Edit: BTW MacMum, Wallsy announced on On the Couch last week that he's retiring from footy altogether this year and moving overseas.

Oh really?...I missed that, damn!...ok then...what about Leppa, Chris Johnson or dare I say it.....as I prepare to run away.....AKER!...last I heard, he was going very well with his club up yonder....bearing in mind, this is not all going to happen tomorrow..

..and still In Voss I trust!!

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Oh really?...I missed that, damn!...ok then...what about Leppa, Chris Johnson or dare I say it.....as I prepare to run away.....AKER!...last I heard, he was going very well with his club up yonder....bearing in mind, this is not all going to happen tomorrow..

..and still In Voss I trust!!

wouldn't mind seeing lappin coming back up north, has a good head on his shoulders in regards to not just football but all things it seems

 

[Hollow Knight]

Just don't know if Nigel has the desire to be a leading man.

 

[POBT]

I don't want to choose a coach based on this but it is worth remembering that we need someone up here who can sell the club and the code. Voss was a ready made, marketable name. Before that we had a legend of the game. While I don't think we need someone of Sheeds' ilk as a showman, whoever gets the job (assuming we replace Voss) has to be someone who is good with the media.

 

[Eons]

Interesting Eons. Don't suppose you can point to where Malthouse made those comments? It makes some sense.



Agree with this. I also think that it is a game plan which would have worked well with Drummond, McGrath, Hanley and Adcock all playing their best footy down back. Right now, our defenders are all either stodgy types or lack experience. The only exception to that is the co-captain who I have not been impressed with this season.

It was an interview I saw a week or two ago, can't remember what is was from sorry.

 

[Tas]

I think people should not get too worked up about giving Voss the shiv. Brisbane made the mistake of putting him into the job without a proper apprenticeship and he had to learn on the job which hurt Brisbane on and off the field.

I have read a lot of finger pointing but I am not sure what a lot of people expect of a replacement coach will do.

Your starting midfield was Mayes, Rockliff, Raines, Leuenberger, Rich and Moloney.

Mayes is 18 and has played 2 games.
Rockliff is 23 and has played 66 games.
Raines is 27 and has played 104 games.
Leuenberger is 24 and has played 72 games.
Rich is 22 and has played 86 games.
Moloney is 29 and has played 149 games.

We have one of the youngest lists in the competition and even our midfield isn't that inexperienced.

Your only two experienced players in the middle are players from other clubs, Moloney barely played last year, Raines did a reasonable job on Wells. The side is just too young and too inexperienced across the board. You need to forget about the first couple of years with Voss, he shouldn't have been coaching. You need to look at what there is to work with and what are the expectations, what could someone else do better.

Brisbane has been recruiting fairly well, but I just don't think it is going to magically happen overnight, there is no substitute for maturity and experience and I don't know what a new coach will bring other than to have the time for the kids to mature.

That performance was very poor this week and you guys haven't been playing great footy since the NAB cup but when the players do play well is it all Voss? No. When they play bad it is not all Voss either. There is too much variance between the good and bad football of inexperienced players and that can be amplified on the road.

 

[kylegee28]

Does anyone else feel think Shane Woewodin should be feeling a bit more of the heat?

 

[Bert Man]

Does anyone else feel think Shane Woewodin should be feeling a bit more of the heat?

They all should be, what's the point in blaming someone when every position is under performing.

 

[Lionwest]

Harvey shouldn't ever be in the frame for the Lions top job, reasonable assistant coach but as a head coach a strong NO way! Not just my opinion either, first hand from those that have played under him.

 

[Ceebee]

If we do go for a new coach we want someone as far removed from the Lions as possible.
A completely new outlook.
I have no idea who ,but Eade or Williams are not one of them.
We do not want anyone who was pushed or sacked either.

 

[jackess]

Nathan Bassett.

 

[Bucking Beads]

Not keen on an unproven coach at all. If we do end replacing Vossy it has to be with an experienced seasoned coach IMO.