2nds WAFL / Beagles Watch 2023

[Miguel Sanchez]

https://archive.is/WfaoC

Cheers. Sounds a little bit like an empty threat, but if the airfares are effectively covered it could work.

 

[Keys]

View attachment 1834843

Can someone (Keys) let us know what this says?

Not as much as the headline suggests tbh, but here it is

The spectre of an AFL reserves competition to take all AFL listed players out of traditional second tier competitions within three years is again looming over the WAFL.
West Coast chief executive Trevor Nisbett told WAFL club presidents on Tuesday that a national reserves competition or joining an expanded VFL was an option for West Coast if they did not believe they were getting the right conditions to develop young players in their stand alone WAFL team.

Nisbett was fronting the WAFL presidents to justify list concessions his club was unilaterally granted by the WAFC after a winless season and their third wooden spoon in a row.

He flagged the possibility the Eagles could follow South Australian counterparts Adelaide and Port Adelaide in looking to an expanded VFL and potentially an AFL reserves competition to develop young players in.

West Coast leaving the competition would cost the WAFL clubs $600,000 in annual licence fees, which would swell to more than $1 million lost if Fremantle followed and abandoned their alignment with Peel.

WAFL presidents reacted differently to the news.

Some viewed it as little more than the Eagles CEO listing it as one of a series of options available to his club. WAFL Council of Presidents spokesman Mark Stewart said he believed it would be too expensive for the Eagles to seriously consider. But others saw it as a threat because several other scenarios put by Nisbett were even more unlikely.

Nisbett listed aligning with a WAFL club or spreading players out across all clubs as had been the case in the 1990s as options.

Several WAFL presidents said the Eagles are unlikely to find a club to align with. Perth is the most likely candidate and the Demons would find it almost impossible to get past members after changes to the club’s constitution to protect its independence.

West Coast are clearly not in favour of spreading their players out because it would make them the only AFL club without some form of alignment.

Those presidents believed Nisbett’s message was clear: We need conditions for a competitive WAFL team or we need to look elsewhere.

Eagles chairman Paul Fitzpatrick confirmed to CODE Sports that joining a national AFL reserves competition was “an option and would always be an option” but said it was not one the Eagles board had discussed yet.

Adelaide and Port Adelaide are considered strong chances to be part of an expanded VFL competition potentially as soon as next season amid growing dissatisfaction with arrangements for their players in the SANFL.

Port believe that a full AFL reserves competition could be in place by 2027 provided arrangements with the league’s air carrier Virgin change so that all AFL team flights are chartered.

Once that happens the cost of a reserves team would drastically reduce because it would not matter if there were 25 extra players on a flight.

Under revised rules granted by the WAFC, the Eagles will be given an increase in their player points allocation from 65 to 70, will be allocated a TPP 60 per cent of the salary cap of other WAFL clubs ($245,000 this year) and will have a three-year ban on recruiting players originally from the WAFL lifted.

It is the final rule that causes most angst for WAFL clubs because of fears West Coast will use the lure of full time employment to retain its delisted players and potentially tempt players from other WAFL clubs.

This year Sandover Medallist Hamish Brayshaw worked at West Coast but played WAFL for East Perth.

Fremantle’s alignment with Peel has been a happier one but Peel have made no secret of their wish to eventually be a stand alone club.

The Thunder have won two flags, lost the grand final this year and were finalists last year under the arrangement but have also endured off field battles. They lost $145,000 in 2022, the third worst financial outcome in a WAFL competition where financial sustainability is an issue for almost every club.

“We have to work through all of that because it has got to be a business decision for us,” the club’s CEO Paul Lekias said earlier this year. “We would love to be stand alone but there is a fair bit that needs to occur for that to actually happen.

“Being an aligned club does have an anomaly. In a sense we are trying to serve two masters. We are trying to do the right thing by Fremantle and trying to showcase our own local talent at the same time.

“The agreement started in 2013 and was due to end in 2018 and it is sort of rolling over at the moment on a notice period, so there is not a fixed agreement.”

 

[amazingjoshy]

Yeah feels like its just being used as a bargaining tool/threat, but if the SANFL clubs join next year then its surely just a matter of time before it's a proper national ressies comp.

For the same reason we don't want to spread our players out amongst the WAFL clubs, do we really want to be the only club (with Freo) that isn't a part of a reserves comp?

 

[RookiePick]

I'd find the argument compelling if I didn't have way more faith in the WAFL sides developing youngsters than our in-house shittery

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Yeah feels like its just being used as a bargaining tool/threat, but if the SANFL clubs join next year then its surely just a matter of time before it's a proper national ressies comp.

For the same reason we don't want to spread our players out amongst the WAFL clubs, do we really want to be the only club (with Freo) that isn't a part of a reserves comp?

It will never be a real comp though. AFL lists are full of kids still learning the game. Many of them not even state league players that were drafted on potential only.
A reserves comp will not be a traditional reserves comp, it will be a colts team with a few 25 year olds basically just training but dressed up as real games. Winning the reserves comp will have zero importance and they will almost certainly be played on seperate days at different grounds.
Not sure it will effect the WAFL much to be honest.

 

[flamingEMBERS]

greatwhiteshark , you’re very opinionated on the eagles reserves/wafl team. What do you think is the solution?

 

[greatwhiteshark]

greatwhiteshark , you’re very opinionated on the eagles reserves/wafl team. What do you think is the solution?

The best solution in my opinion is to align with Perth. Unfortunately Perth don't want to do it because they are scared they will lose their identity.
The Eagles have to be the one to change, they want to be to dominant in the area of their previous working with a WAFL club and hence it falls over. What they need to do is simple say to Perth we would like our players to play for your club, we will ask if certain players can play in certain roles but we will agree that will be up to the Perth coach on game day.
The Eagles can have no staff that interfere with Perth running the WAFL club.

It works well for Freo and it seems the only club it never works for is us. Maybe the Eagles are the problem???

The Stand alone club can work but only if you don't get many injuries. Now we got the Eagles asking for more and more which is being based upon them getting injuries. Injuries kill all clubs and rightfully so it killed the Eagles WAFL club when the AFL club got decimated.

The sharing players throughout clubs historically says is the best system, it gives players the chance to play in teams who want to win and therefor if you don't put in you will be signalled out. It gives the players the most competitive devlopment they could get.

The Eagles however had said they don't want that system that works so it's not really on the cards now.

Which leaves heading East to play in the VFL which will be a huge cost and will not really solve anything still. It will be a training venue for 18 AFL clubs as it is now for the VFL clubs. It will be nothing at all like original reserves comps were where winning the comp was important.

So bottom line is my answer is sit down with Perth football club and tell them they can do it their way, we won't interfere, we won't tell you what to do we will simply work with you and not dictate to you.
Surely with Barich as President an adult conversation can take place and a deal can be made that works for both parties well.
But I am certain that the Eagles are the issue and until they change their attitude with an alignment it will never happen again.

 

[amazingjoshy]

It will never be a real comp though. AFL lists are full of kids still learning the game. Many of them not even state league players that were drafted on potential only.
A reserves comp will not be a traditional reserves comp, it will be a colts team with a few 25 year olds basically just training but dressed up as real games. Winning the reserves comp will have zero importance and they will almost certainly be played on seperate days at different grounds.
Not sure it will effect the WAFL much to be honest.

Anything else has to be better than the last few years

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Anything else has to be better than the last few years

That's on us at the Eagles though, it's all our own fault. No one else's fault just ours.
So changing comps or going elsewhere is just geography, problems are still there in the club.

 

[Keys]

Winder signs on with South Fremantle

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Winder signs on with South Fremantle

It’s bloody hard to keep them to play for a side that has no intent in winning the comp.

 

[DanWCE]

Winder signs on with South Fremantle

Got the tools. Hope he rips it up

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

The Eagles can have no staff that interfere with Perth running the WAFL club.

It works well for Freo and it seems the only club it never works for is us. Maybe the Eagles are the problem???

Valentine, Peel’s head coach, is employed by Freo as well as Peel, and Tendai Mzungu is on the coaching staff at both clubs.

Perth is so against the idea of being an alignment club that they changed their constitution to prevent it ever happening. I don’t see how any amount of conceding control will overcome that.

That basically leaves us without a dance partner.

 

[kane249]

Interesting from that article was the fact Peel wants to seek its independence at one point from Freo.

Are they forgetting just how bad they are as a stand alone side? They even make Perth look good

 

[flamingEMBERS]

The best solution in my opinion is to align with Perth. Unfortunately Perth don't want to do it because they are scared they will lose their identity.
The Eagles have to be the one to change, they want to be to dominant in the area of their previous working with a WAFL club and hence it falls over. What they need to do is simple say to Perth we would like our players to play for your club, we will ask if certain players can play in certain roles but we will agree that will be up to the Perth coach on game day.
The Eagles can have no staff that interfere with Perth running the WAFL club.

It works well for Freo and it seems the only club it never works for is us. Maybe the Eagles are the problem???

The Stand alone club can work but only if you don't get many injuries. Now we got the Eagles asking for more and more which is being based upon them getting injuries. Injuries kill all clubs and rightfully so it killed the Eagles WAFL club when the AFL club got decimated.

The sharing players throughout clubs historically says is the best system, it gives players the chance to play in teams who want to win and therefor if you don't put in you will be signalled out. It gives the players the most competitive devlopment they could get.

The Eagles however had said they don't want that system that works so it's not really on the cards now.

Which leaves heading East to play in the VFL which will be a huge cost and will not really solve anything still. It will be a training venue for 18 AFL clubs as it is now for the VFL clubs. It will be nothing at all like original reserves comps were where winning the comp was important.

So bottom line is my answer is sit down with Perth football club and tell them they can do it their way, we won't interfere, we won't tell you what to do we will simply work with you and not dictate to you.
Surely with Barich as President an adult conversation can take place and a deal can be made that works for both parties well.
But I am certain that the Eagles are the issue and until they change their attitude with an alignment it will never happen again.

I agree an alignment works best, players that should develop in the reserves can because let’s face it they’re still children when they’re drafted.
I’d be more inclined to expand the WAFL to 10 teams and go with the South West Eagles as Duffield has suggested previously.

 

[Keys]

It’s bloody hard to keep them to play for a side that has no intent in winning the comp.

Well that and the fact we just delisted him so perhaps we’re not his favourite club

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Valentine, Peel’s head coach, is employed by Freo as well as Peel, and Tendai Mzungu is on the coaching staff at both clubs.

Perth is so against the idea of being an alignment club that they changed their constitution to prevent it ever happening. I don’t see how any amount of conceding control will overcome that.

That basically leaves us without a dance partner.

Which is disappointing but I think we created this over the journey.

 

[amazingjoshy]

That's on us at the Eagles though, it's all our own fault. No one else's fault just ours.
So changing comps or going elsewhere is just geography, problems are still there in the club.

Don't disagree with the 1st part. I've been big on spreading the players around the Wafl clubs as I think it would've been far superior to what we've had the last last couple of years, but that just isn't going to happen for whatever reason the club insists on.

At least with a national reserves all teams are in the same boat. It isn't a bunch of underdeveloped AFL listed kids and a bunch of ammos playing against teams of men. Everyone should be in the same boat.

I have no idea where they're getting the players to make up full teams from though.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Don't disagree with the 1st part. I've been big on spreading the players around the Wafl clubs as I think it would've been far superior to what we've had the last last couple of years, but that just isn't going to happen for whatever reason the club insists on.

At least with a national reserves all teams are in the same boat. It isn't a bunch of underdeveloped AFL listed kids and a bunch of ammos playing against teams of men. Everyone should be in the same boat.

I have no idea where they're getting the players to make up full teams from though.

I would guess they will increase AFL lists to 60 odd players, how can it work otherwise?
The problem of who is going to want to play in a comp that is not a serious comp will still be there. They would all have to be full time players I guess.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Winder signs on with South Fremantle

If he gets his body right. He can be on an AFL list in 2025, if not sooner.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

I would guess they will increase AFL lists to 60 odd players, how can it work otherwise?
The problem of who is going to want to play in a comp that is not a serious comp will still be there. They would all have to be full time players I guess.

How do Essendon, Collingwood, Richmond, North Melbourne etc standalone VFL sides get players now? They were created and exist solely to develop players on the AFL list. None of them seem to have any trouble finding top up players.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

How do Essendon, Collingwood, Richmond, North Melbourne etc standalone VFL sides get players now? They were created and exist solely to develop players on the AFL list. None of them seem to have any trouble finding top up players.

Finding players is never the issue, its what level players that is the issue.
I have seem many comments on BF on the Main board that the Amatuers and some country comps are far stronger than the VFL and that the good players who once played in the VFA just took off when the AFL clubs started taking over.
The VFL is generally regarded now as below the WAFL and SANFL. They withdrew from state football as they were no longer winning all the time.
Mate I have already said that if the AFL want it then it will happen, the fans will be told to follow it and they will. It won't be the second tier of footy I don't think though. The WAFL and SANFL could actually thrive with a National reserves comp.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Finding players is never the issue, its what level players that is the issue.
I have seem many comments on BF on the Main board that the Amatuers and some country comps are far stronger than the VFL and that the good players who once played in the VFA just took off when the AFL clubs started taking over.
The VFL is generally regarded now as below the WAFL and SANFL. They withdrew from state football as they were no longer winning all the time.
Mate I have already said that if the AFL want it then it will happen, the fans will be told to follow it and they will. It won't be the second tier of footy I don't think though. The WAFL and SANFL could actually thrive with a National reserves comp.

Sounds like everyone wins. The WAFL gets stronger, our developing players get to play against other sides in the same position with the same goals.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Sounds like everyone wins. The WAFL gets stronger, our developing players get to play against other sides in the same position with the same goals.

Yep, it won't bother me. Removes a huge problem from the WAFL as far as I am concerned and puts it where it should be which is AFL house.

 

[Chris_6678]

I would have thought if we went into the VFL we can just poach players from the WAFL as our top up players. It would give them a chance to play in a national league.

Is that how the other AFL players are doing this? IE Lions, GWS, GC , Swans ect ?