Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 2

[Gethelred]

This is a sensitive area for some. With that in mind, I'm going to remind a few posters a few things:

• personal attacks are against forum rules. From this point, any attacks that are directed at another poster will be treated with a warning, then infractions and threadbans if it continues.
• the spread of misinformation is also against the rules. This is taken very seriously by moderation, and you will be asked to support your opinion from time to time. If you cannot satisfy this, you will be provided an opportunity to retract your post; if you do not, you will receive an infraction and a threadban on that basis.

This is a forum for adults, and I'd appreciate you all treating each other appropriately.

 

[Kwality]

No thanks to the EU who will continue to squabble amongst themselves, whilst seeking the high moral ground on which to tell the rest of the world what we should be doing.

Russia still making billions selling oil, gas to Europe​

Germany paid Russia more than euros 12 billion for fossil fuels and remained Moscow’s largest client for natural gas over the first hundred days of the war in Ukraine, an analysis has found.
Over the same period the European Union bought more than 60 per cent of Russia’s hydrocarbon exports, which in turn typically make up almost 50 per cent of the Kremlin’s state revenues.

While the EU has imposed a gradual embargo on most Russian oil imports and is trying to scale back its reliance on gas from Russia, high international energy prices and greater demand from China and India mean Moscow’s revenue is predicted to increase as much as euros 14 billion this year. In total they have amounted to about euros 93 billion since February 24.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/world/the-times/russia-still-making-billions-selling-oil-gas-to-europe/news-story/702b262f1645bf2647aaae0de946798e

As a result the income stream from these fossil fuel exports comfortably exceeds the euros 840 million President Putin is spending on his invasion of Ukraine each day, according to the Centre for Research on Energy and Clean Air (CREA), a think tank based in Helsinki.

Since the start of the war Russia has continued to supply the EU with 85 per cent of its pipeline gas, 75 per cent of its liquefied natural gas and 50 per cent of its crude oil, the researchers said.

Putin’s main customer in the bloc is Germany ....

At the same time France’s Russian energy imports grew ...

Lithuania’s imports fell 78 per cent from February to May, and Poland’s and Estonia’s both dropped by 51 per cent.....

The CREA study also drew attention to the way India is moving into the market for Russian oil, attracted by steep discounts.

While its euros 3.4 billion in payments to Moscow were relatively modest by the standards of Germany and China, it bought 18 per cent of Russia’s crude oil exports, which were overwhelmingly delivered by European-flagged tankers.

The Times

 

[Saint]

No thanks to the EU who will continue to squabble amongst themselves, whilst seeking the high moral ground on which to tell the rest of the world what we should be doing.

Russia still making billions selling oil, gas to Europe​

Germany paid Russia more than euros 12 billion for fossil fuels and remained Moscow’s largest client for natural gas over the first hundred days of the war in Ukraine, an analysis has found.
Over the same period the European Union bought more than 60 per cent of Russia’s hydrocarbon exports, which in turn typically make up almost 50 per cent of the Kremlin’s state revenues.

While the EU has imposed a gradual embargo on most Russian oil imports and is trying to scale back its reliance on gas from Russia, high international energy prices and greater demand from China and India mean Moscow’s revenue is predicted to increase as much as euros 14 billion this year. In total they have amounted to about euros 93 billion since February 24.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/world/the-times/russia-still-making-billions-selling-oil-gas-to-europe/news-story/702b262f1645bf2647aaae0de946798e

As a result the income stream from these fossil fuel exports comfortably exceeds the euros 840 million President Putin is spending on his invasion of Ukraine each day, according to the Centre for Research on Energy and Clean Air (CREA), a think tank based in Helsinki.

Since the start of the war Russia has continued to supply the EU with 85 per cent of its pipeline gas, 75 per cent of its liquefied natural gas and 50 per cent of its crude oil, the researchers said.

Putin’s main customer in the bloc is Germany ....

At the same time France’s Russian energy imports grew ...

Lithuania’s imports fell 78 per cent from February to May, and Poland’s and Estonia’s both dropped by 51 per cent.....

The CREA study also drew attention to the way India is moving into the market for Russian oil, attracted by steep discounts.

While its euros 3.4 billion in payments to Moscow were relatively modest by the standards of Germany and China, it bought 18 per cent of Russia’s crude oil exports, which were overwhelmingly delivered by European-flagged tankers.

The Times

Yes, that's what the spend on oil is, but don't forget the Russian Govt is already funded by that oil money. It's not new money. So spending all of it on the military when it's 50% of incomes isn't a windfall. It means there'll be no money to fund the rest of Russia's Government expenditure.

And don't forget it's the largesse the Russian Govt can spend on cronies and state apparatus which keeps it in power.

When the stipends and oil money flowing to criminal regional leaders in Dagestan and Chechnya starts to dry up, so does support/tolerance for Russia. The roads and railways deteriorate more. The health and school systems deteriorate more and the population just generally gets poorer as their funding is re-directed to be dropped onto Ukrainian schools and houses in the form of bombs and bullets, spent fuel and funerals. Even if they capture eastern Ukraine, who's going to fund the re-building of Azovstal? Otherwise it's just a great big industrial town with no industry.

India getting discounted oil from Russia just shows that Russia isn't making extra money out of this all. It's still running the Russian economy down.

 

[Kwality]

Yes, that's what the spend on oil is, but don't forget the Russian Govt is already funded by that oil money. It's not new money. So spending all of it on the military when it's 50% of incomes isn't a windfall. It means there'll be no money to fund the rest of Russia's Government expenditure.

And don't forget it's the largesse the Russian Govt can spend on cronies and state apparatus which keeps it in power.

When the stipends and oil money flowing to criminal regional leaders in Dagestan and Chechnya starts to dry up, so does support/tolerance for Russia. The roads and railways deteriorate more. The health and school systems deteriorate more and the population just generally gets poorer as their funding is re-directed to be dropped onto Ukrainian schools and houses in the form of bombs and bullets, spent fuel and funerals. Even if they capture eastern Ukraine, who's going to fund the re-building of Azovstal? Otherwise it's just a great big industrial town with no industry.

India getting discounted oil from Russia just shows that Russia isn't making extra money out of this all. It's still running the Russian economy down.

IF the Euros pulled their fingers out, Ukrainians would be the winners here.

 

[Visions]

Had to laugh today skimming through a video an Aussie living in Moscow shared of the somewhat new "Russian McChucks " started up there.
He went inside and seemed like a lot of the sauce packets were just old McDonald's ones where they used a texta to black out the McD logo on it, yet this is a big campaign for this new company start. What a way to launch a new company with black outs on your products to hide it just old stock you pretend is not from closed down McDonald's. Wonderful first impression. This company is going places....I swear it looked like a 100 staff on in the one store. Weird, wonder how many still have a job or shifts in two months time.

Maybe they are doing that because they cant do new packaging because there is an ink shortage in Russia due to sanctions.

Heres a before and after shot of one of the products sold there.

 

[Mobbs]

Maybe they are doing that because they cant do new packaging because there is an ink shortage in Russia due to sanctions.

Heres a before and after shot of one of the products sold there.

View attachment 1423712

Packaging (especially cardboard) has been a very big shortage issue. I've seen numerous examples in the feeds! I dunno for sure about ink, but perhaps the printing services overall?

The other thing is salt. Salt has apparently become a bigger deal than sugar, quite hard to find - and probably very expensive now, due to its scarcity.

This is not to say that everyone's starving, but the general comfort level of excess that most of us enjoy is dissipating in Russia, and it's time to think carefully about what goes into a trolley, because the prices are quite a bit higher (not insanely high, but definitely substantial increases eg 10% through to 30% up.

 

[yebiga]

It is sad state of affairs.
I find myself having times when I cannot even stand to hear from Russian people, even what I consider good Russian people as it hard to listen or watch them go on as if life is good and they not be horrified and doing something to stop or influence the bullshit by their government next door. The apathy or seeming to not want to show any genuine disgust with Putin and his cronies is hard to let fly. The challenge is knowing if they just do not care deep down enough or they living in a reality that hard to imagine how you would mentally go about your day if it the very country you born in, doing this horrible s**t.
I've thought for sometimes, that for a number of generations most of Russian people still live with the consciousness of the ghost of Stalin in their reality. Which to me means, he taught Russian people to regress in terms of expressing individual independent thinking much and the people of that generation feared being dobbed into his regime for talking out of step.... so their children taught the next generation the same and grandparents massive influence on generation over 60 years later as a result. Basically you could not have individual thought and they taught themselves to police their own thoughts.
I think those that young and grew up in 2000's have far less of this but they still influenced by the authorities and fear of in trouble with them. So it seems either actual genuine apathy or buy into the propaganda runs deep.

I try to still listen to good people in Russia but it becomes hard to marry up what going in Ukraine and the destruction and horror and the alternative reality in Russia brainwashing the people living there subject to, day in day out. Unless living in their shoes it hard to not get pissed off with it as uncaring.

It just really hard to imagine. How did people in germany that did not embrace Hitler and his bullshit but see so many of their own nation did and still live day to day and not want to do something to change the world they were living in? Unless we live in these realities it a bit of a mind farrk watching on from afar in terms of distance or in terms of time and history.

Goodness Me! Don't you remember Iraq? You are concerned with how the Russian population may have lost their capacity for independent thought? Ave Maria!

Is this because the Ukrainians are white and Iraqis are just dumb muslim sand-******s?
Because the death and destruction of Ukraine is nowhere near - yet - to the scale of what occurred in Iraq and went on for 15+ years.

This is wilful staggering blindness - look around the world - who the hell do you think is running it all - Putin? Another Hitler to follow the Saddam Hitler, to follow the Gaddafi Hitler. How many countries have our overlords the US bombed, destroyed, pillaged, occupied since the 1945?

This is not to say that Russia is guiltless. But we do not live in this cartoon of all good v all evil. Stop this horse-shiite. Look around - our current crop of western leaders are by order of magnitude the dumbest, most privileged, most corrupt and totally incompetent maggots in history. Our news reports are 1 part tittilation and 2 parts fantasy.

As for those weapons being sent to the Ukraine - this gives you some idea - what is nt destroyed in transit, battle or captured is sold

Several dark web marketplaces are selling military weapons allegedly sourced from Western countries to support the Ukrainian military. It is likely that the weapons have been shelved from the main supplies and are now being sold to terrorists. In one of the markets called Thief, there are 9 ads from 3 suppliers associated with Ukraine.


A vendor called Weapons Ukraine sells rifles, grenades and body armor for prices ranging from $1,100 to $3,600, promising delivery within Ukraine. Despite the lack of reviews about the store, 32 people have already made a purchase.

Another supplier, Big Discounts on Weapons, offers an American Javelin anti-tank missile system for $30,000. The seller indicated the location of the goods in Kyiv.

In addition, the Black Market Guns store sells NLAW anti-tank missiles for $15,000 and the American Switchblade 600 Kamikaze UAV for $7,000.

 

[Lethality]

Goodness Me! Don't you remember Iraq? You are concerned with how the Russian population may have lost their capacity for independent thought?

Last time Iraq invaded their neighbour they were condemned as well, and then driven out.

 

[footyfan1978]

Goodness Me! Don't you remember Iraq? You are concerned with how the Russian population may have lost their capacity for independent thought? Ave Maria!

Is this because the Ukrainians are white and Iraqis are just dumb muslim sand-fellows?

Farkkk off back under the rock you crawled out from you absolute nufty.
This is a thread about Ukraine. Piss off back to your conspiracy thread nonsense if you want to make up crap that has nothing to do with this thread and particularly my comments.
Seriously, I could not give a flying heck for the brainwashed dribble that you fill your mind with.

 

[footyfan1978]

Packaging (especially cardboard) has been a very big shortage issue. I've seen numerous examples in the feeds! I dunno for sure about ink, but perhaps the printing services overall?

Think you might be on the money there.

 

[bourbons]

Do you legit think Putin is going to invade Poland? Like honestly.

About as silly as thinking NATO might invade Russia if they share a border.

Although Putin does seem far less rational than NATO currently.

 

[yebiga]

Farkkk off back under the rock you crawled out from you absolute nufty.
This is a thread about Ukraine. Piss off back to your conspiracy thread nonsense if you want to make up crap that has nothing to do with this thread and particularly my comments.
Seriously, I could not give a flying **** for the brainwashed dribble that you fill your mind with.

You sound a little emotional

 

[footyfan1978]

You sound a little emotional

A little, I am a lot.
Would never want to be brain dead and emotionally stunted like the nufty you are.
Now farrk off to your conspiracy thread where you can knock yourself with all the dribble off topic stuff you like.

 

[Chief]

This is not to say that everyone's starving, but the general comfort level of excess that most of us enjoy is dissipating in Russia, and it's time to think carefully about what goes into a trolley, because the prices are quite a bit higher (not insanely high, but definitely substantial increases eg 10% through to 30% up.

So they're living like... regional Queenslanders????

 

[hebog]

About as silly as thinking NATO might invade Russia if they share a border.

Although Putin does seem far less rational than NATO currently.

They didn’t think that Hitler would invade Poland either, but he did then Belgium and France. He also had allies in Franco and Mussolini. The more Putin gets the more he will want.

 

[Saint]

Goodness Me! Don't you remember Iraq? You are concerned with how the Russian population may have lost their capacity for independent thought? Ave Maria!

Is this because the Ukrainians are white and Iraqis are just dumb muslim sand-fellows?
Because the death and destruction of Ukraine is nowhere near - yet - to the scale of what occurred in Iraq and went on for 15+ years.

This is wilful staggering blindness - look around the world - who the hell do you think is running it all - Putin? Another Hitler to follow the Saddam Hitler, to follow the Gaddafi Hitler. How many countries have our overlords the US bombed, destroyed, pillaged, occupied since the 1945?

This is not to say that Russia is guiltless. But we do not live in this cartoon of all good v all evil. Stop this horse-shiite. Look around - our current crop of western leaders are by order of magnitude the dumbest, most privileged, most corrupt and totally incompetent maggots in history. Our news reports are 1 part tittilation and 2 parts fantasy.

As for those weapons being sent to the Ukraine - this gives you some idea - what is nt destroyed in transit, battle or captured is sold

Several dark web marketplaces are selling military weapons allegedly sourced from Western countries to support the Ukrainian military. It is likely that the weapons have been shelved from the main supplies and are now being sold to terrorists. In one of the markets called Thief, there are 9 ads from 3 suppliers associated with Ukraine.


A vendor called Weapons Ukraine sells rifles, grenades and body armor for prices ranging from $1,100 to $3,600, promising delivery within Ukraine. Despite the lack of reviews about the store, 32 people have already made a purchase.

Another supplier, Big Discounts on Weapons, offers an American Javelin anti-tank missile system for $30,000. The seller indicated the location of the goods in Kyiv.

In addition, the Black Market Guns store sells NLAW anti-tank missiles for $15,000 and the American Switchblade 600 Kamikaze UAV for $7,000.

So you just made up a bunch of stuff about the dark web and pass it off as information?

How many countries did Ukraine invade =0. How many countries did Saddam Hussein invade = 2. Hussein was a real and ongoing present threat even deliberately making countries think that he might have chemical weapons so that they were afraid of him. Plus he gassed lots of Kurds for giggles.

The way the US, UK and Australia went about it based on lies was wrong, but it's still not as bad as Putin invading Ukraine because he wants to make Russia bigger. There's simply no reasonable justification.

Anybody trying to justify Putin's murder of civilians and beginning a war because "the US is bad too" is having mental problems.

If news reports are all false, where do you get your information? (This is rhetorical, it's clear you get your information direct from a Russian bot farm). You should review all your sources, but rejecting legit news orgs such as BBC in favour of "doing your own research" on Youtube and the Darkweb is also a mental problem.

Where exactly did you get the bolded text you just shared as if you think it's legit? And if you think it's more legit than other news sources, you should say why you think that.

 

[bourbons]

Goodness Me! Don't you remember Iraq? You are concerned with how the Russian population may have lost their capacity for independent thought? Ave Maria!

Is this because the Ukrainians are white and Iraqis are just dumb muslim sand-fellows?
Because the death and destruction of Ukraine is nowhere near - yet - to the scale of what occurred in Iraq and went on for 15+ years.

This is wilful staggering blindness - look around the world - who the hell do you think is running it all - Putin? Another Hitler to follow the Saddam Hitler, to follow the Gaddafi Hitler. How many countries have our overlords the US bombed, destroyed, pillaged, occupied since the 1945?

This is not to say that Russia is guiltless. But we do not live in this cartoon of all good v all evil. Stop this horse-shiite. Look around - our current crop of western leaders are by order of magnitude the dumbest, most privileged, most corrupt and totally incompetent maggots in history. Our news reports are 1 part tittilation and 2 parts fantasy.

As for those weapons being sent to the Ukraine - this gives you some idea - what is nt destroyed in transit, battle or captured is sold

Several dark web marketplaces are selling military weapons allegedly sourced from Western countries to support the Ukrainian military. It is likely that the weapons have been shelved from the main supplies and are now being sold to terrorists. In one of the markets called Thief, there are 9 ads from 3 suppliers associated with Ukraine.


A vendor called Weapons Ukraine sells rifles, grenades and body armor for prices ranging from $1,100 to $3,600, promising delivery within Ukraine. Despite the lack of reviews about the store, 32 people have already made a purchase.

Another supplier, Big Discounts on Weapons, offers an American Javelin anti-tank missile system for $30,000. The seller indicated the location of the goods in Kyiv.

In addition, the Black Market Guns store sells NLAW anti-tank missiles for $15,000 and the American Switchblade 600 Kamikaze UAV for $7,000.

lol. Like clockwork

yebiga doesn't do straight answers to questions or respond to posts calling out his bullshit.

We'll have to make do with his next pseudo-intellectual drive by in a week or 2 explaining why Putin isn't that bad really and blaming the west for the war still going.

Why didn't you post or link the whole article yebs? Wouldn't be because of these parts would it?

While the listings appear genuine and the offered weapons are priced realistically, the chances of them being created by pro-Russian actors for propaganda purposes are high.
...
KELA has confirmed that many of these listings are posted on pro-Russian Telegram channels and even Russian media outlets shortly after publication on the darknet markets.

In some cases, the claims made on these channels are that the weapons are smuggled through Moldova by trucks carrying "classified" cargo, implying that the state of Ukraine has knowledge of the matter.

However, the coordinated publication on multiple platforms increases the likelihood of this being part of a disinformation campaign aiming to present Ukrainians as unethical and untrustworthy.

Finally, there's always the possibility these listings are added by scammers wanting to take advantage of the situation and make a profit out of thin air.

If that is the case, pro-Russian outlets could be simply picking them up, assuming they're real, or using them to promote their narrative.

At this stage, the authenticity of weapon listings from Ukraine on the dark web cannot be verified, but judging from available information and accompanying clues, most seem to be fake.

Dark web sites selling alleged Western weapons sent to Ukraine

Several weapon marketplaces on the dark web have listed military-grade firearms allegedly coming from Western countries that sent them to support the Ukrainian army in its fight against the Russian invaders.

www.bleepingcomputer.com

 

[bourbons]

Where exactly did you get the bolded text you just shared as if you think it's legit? And if you think it's more legit than other news sources, you should say why you think that.

See my post above.

He picks and chooses the parts that suit his narrative and ignores the rest. Or he gets it direct from some of the most deadshit infested, unreliable sources on the internet imaginable, who have already weeded the real story - so he can dribble straight in here and regurgitate the preferred version while telling everyone else how brainwashed they are.

Which one is it by the way yebiga? Were you just being flat out dishonest or has ZeroHedge stitched you up again?

 

[Marcel Proust]

So you just made up a bunch of stuff about the dark web and pass it off as information?

How many countries did Ukraine invade =0. How many countries did Saddam Hussein invade = 2. Hussein was a real and ongoing present threat even deliberately making countries think that he might have chemical weapons so that they were afraid of him. Plus he gassed lots of Kurds for giggles.

The way the US, UK and Australia went about it based on lies was wrong, but it's still not as bad as Putin invading Ukraine because he wants to make Russia bigger. There's simply no reasonable justification.

Anybody trying to justify Putin's murder of civilians and beginning a war because "the US is bad too" is having mental problems.

If news reports are all false, where do you get your information? (This is rhetorical, it's clear you get your information direct from a Russian bot farm). You should review all your sources, but rejecting legit news orgs such as BBC in favour of "doing your own research" on Youtube and the Darkweb is also a mental problem.

Where exactly did you get the bolded text you just shared as if you think it's legit? And if you think it's more legit than other news sources, you should say why you think that.

200,000 documented dead civilians from violence

 

[faible]

200,000 documented dead civilians from violence

Putin's a pretty shit bloke hey? Forcing Ukrainians to die in defence of their homes or become refugees in another country, or worse.

 

[yebiga]

So you just made up a bunch of stuff about the dark web and pass it off as information?

How many countries did Ukraine invade =0. How many countries did Saddam Hussein invade = 2. Hussein was a real and ongoing present threat even deliberately making countries think that he might have chemical weapons so that they were afraid of him. Plus he gassed lots of Kurds for giggles.

The way the US, UK and Australia went about it based on lies was wrong, but it's still not as bad as Putin invading Ukraine because he wants to make Russia bigger. There's simply no reasonable justification.

Anybody trying to justify Putin's murder of civilians and beginning a war because "the US is bad too" is having mental problems.

If news reports are all false, where do you get your information? (This is rhetorical, it's clear you get your information direct from a Russian bot farm). You should review all your sources, but rejecting legit news orgs such as BBC in favour of "doing your own research" on Youtube and the Darkweb is also a mental problem.

Where exactly did you get the bolded text you just shared as if you think it's legit? And if you think it's more legit than other news sources, you should say why you think that.

And Libya, And how about Syria
How about Vietnam and bombing of Serbia
Goodness me - it must be over 50 countries the USA has bombed since the second world war.

The only country to have detonated ATOM bombs on Civilians
40+ US bio-labs in the Ukraine

You would think with all the media in Western Hands they would do a better job of this whole geo-political narrative
Everyone understands they want to be the hegemony - but it's one failure after another

Spare me all the fake Ukraine compassion - even our media has given up on that
Fact is the US thought they could pressure Russia into a crisis and regime change to enable it to then pressure China

US intelligence, pentagon, every Washington think tank admits it! Ukraine is merely the pawn in the bigger game - the game of staying top dog.

They've stuffed it up! they've give Russia and China no alternative but to work together as a countervailing force - so we move from a uni-polar to multi-polar world.

China may still stumble - but barring an unforced error by the Chinese the world Axis has just shifted. Might be the best thing, ever since the fall of the USSR the USA led Western Culture has inexorably become insane.

 

[faible]

Fact

You should stop using words you don't understand.

the USA led Western Culture has inexorably become insane.

Yes, listening to the USA led QAnon cult is insane. You should stop that too.

 

[footyfan1978]

Honestly, do not feed the brain dead trolls. Funnel the nufties in conspiracies threads where they belong.
If I wanted to discuss braindead conspiracies would post them in the conspiracy threads.
We here to talk about the reality of this war Russia started on Ukraine in this thread. Take the off topic conspiracy crap to conspiracy threads.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Honestly, do not feed the brain dead trolls. Funnel the nufties in conspiracies threads where they belong.
If I wanted to discuss braindead conspiracies would post them in the conspiracy threads.
We here to talk about the reality of this war Russia started on Ukraine in this thread. Take the off topic conspiracy crap to conspiracy threads.

I'm not sure if you have used the c word enough recently?

 

[faible]

Yes but those 200k Iraq civilians we killed is quite sad as well.

Australia killed 200,000 Iraqi civilians? We deployed 2,000 troops which means ~ 100 civilian kills per trooper.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Australia killed 200,000 Iraqi civilians? We deployed 2,000 troops which means ~ 100 civilian kills per trooper.

We as in the west.