Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 2

[Gethelred]

This is a sensitive area for some. With that in mind, I'm going to remind a few posters a few things:

• personal attacks are against forum rules. From this point, any attacks that are directed at another poster will be treated with a warning, then infractions and threadbans if it continues.
• the spread of misinformation is also against the rules. This is taken very seriously by moderation, and you will be asked to support your opinion from time to time. If you cannot satisfy this, you will be provided an opportunity to retract your post; if you do not, you will receive an infraction and a threadban on that basis.

This is a forum for adults, and I'd appreciate you all treating each other appropriately.

 

[wannabejack]

Putin removes Russian Colonel General Alexander Lapin from his command post in central Ukraine

Russian President Vladimir Putin has removed Russian Colonel General Alexander Lapin from his command post in central Ukraine

euroweeklynews.com

 

[wannabejack]

Odessa Journal | Main

odessa-journal.com

“We compared this drone with other drones of this company and found out that the drone contains 3/4 components from the United States, there are also components from Japan, China, Sweden, Austria, and even one element of Ukrainian production. Now the Defence intelligence specialists will figure out how they got there,”

 

[Spearman]

That second video of the drone boat makes it look like a video game, dodging helicopter fire and ship blasts

Yep, had some flashbacks watching it

This war is being thoroughly covered by video. Those vids of missile threads, especially with more that one launch vehicle, or the incendiary explosions over targets makes me remember the doomsday movies about nuke war. Movies like The Day After.

 

[Visions]

Wow. That footage of the Russian chopper firing bullets at the drone boat and missing shows how bad they are, and thats in daylight!

Also those guys on that boat that just swerved past the oncoming drone boat are very very lucky to still be alive.

 

[Visions]

Russia losing tens of thousands of men in the last few months for a paltry 16 square kms. Putin remains a strategic genius!

 

[wannabejack]

The rapists analogy reminded me of this clip on youtube.

"a regime that invades its neighbour in the name of its own security something new in Russian history?"
"does this not pre-date NATO expansion"

 

[BATTERY]

 

[Kwality]

I think you are underestimating how much some European countries are giving. As a proportion of defence spending, some European countries are giving many times what the US is giving.

As they should, its not the Yanks back yard.

 

[Andre]

I think you are underestimating how much some European countries are giving. As a proportion of defence spending, some European countries are giving many times what the US is giving.

Mostly smaller Eastern European countries who understood / understand Russia better, that make peace now and you are just giving them time to re-arm and try again. France and Germany are the two obvious countries who should have and should be doing more. Germany should have given Leopard 2 tanks for instance and had to be publicly shamed into finally delivering what they promised to give. If they'd given the same as the UK (comparable economies) on the same time scale, then Ukraine would have already have kicked Russia out of Kherson and rolled them back further in the Donbas. FFS, Australia has given military aid comparable to France (Infographic: Where Military Aid to Ukraine Comes From) and we have an economy half the size and are on the other side of the world!

 

[Visions]

This is the largest reported daily loss that Ukraine has stated so far in the war. According to them 950 Russian KIA in the last day.

13 tanks and 52 APV’s is a huge daily score too.

 

[jatz14]

As they should, its not the Yanks back yard.

It's not the 1700s in case you didn't notice, and everywhere is the USAs backyard, in case you also didn't notice. And you will also need to explain to me the significance of proximity in your imagination? In a modern world (it's not the 1700 hundreds remember), those things that affect you, and impact you, and those things that are close to you physically are not necessarily the same thing.

I mean, going, wow, this war is of great strategic significance to me, and impacts Europe, which is of great strategic and economic interest to me, and involves Russia, an expansionist nuclear power. On the other hand, it's waaàaay over there.



On SM-X200 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Mobbs]

I spotted this on a repost channel, meant to be panicked departure and a BTR overturning. It's not verified at all and there's quite a cut between two scenes, however each seem legit in their own right even if they don't follow on from each other.

Too big to embed so I yoiked it.


Caption was "ваньки так бегут с Херсонского направления, что даже с БТРов падают. Своих не бросаем "
Google translates this as "Vanki run from the Kherson direction so much that they even fall from {BTRs}. We don't leave ours " No idea what Vanki means tho sorry.

Edit: I've now seen it also on a second channel, with the caption: "An epic video of the Russian escape, which is worth watching to the end. The date and time of shooting is unknown, but soon there will be a repeat in the Kherson region."

 

[footyfan1978]

Krasiviya!!!

 

[Upstart Swan]

Mostly smaller Eastern European countries who understood / understand Russia better, that make peace now and you are just giving them time to re-arm and try again. France and Germany are the two obvious countries who should have and should be doing more. Germany should have given Leopard 2 tanks for instance and had to be publicly shamed into finally delivering what they promised to give. If they'd given the same as the UK (comparable economies) on the same time scale, then Ukraine would have already have kicked Russia out of Kherson and rolled them back further in the Donbas. FFS, Australia has given military aid comparable to France (Infographic: Where Military Aid to Ukraine Comes From) and we have an economy half the size and are on the other side of the world!

The IfW Kiel research paper on which the Infographic table is based notes that France's contribution can't be fully quantified. So for example they haven't quantified or fully quantified military assistance packages announced by the French at the end of April, in May and at the end of June. The same goes for Italy and Spain.
Also, the Eastern European countries have been sending older, Soviet-era equipment to Ukraine which will in turn be replaced by newer equipment from other NATO countries (so presumably including contributions from France and Germany).
Just saying some of these figures about how much each country is contributing aren't always accurate.

 

[Andre]

The IfW Kiel research paper on which the Infographic table is based notes that France's contribution can't be fully quantified. So for example they haven't quantified or fully quantified military assistance packages announced by the French at the end of April, in May and at the end of June. The same goes for Italy and Spain.
Also, the Eastern European countries have been sending older, Soviet-era equipment to Ukraine which will in turn be replaced by newer equipment from other NATO countries (so presumably including contributions from France and Germany).
Just saying some of these figures about how much each country is contributing aren't always accurate.

Yeah, they are estimates. The exact amounts don't matter though. It's clear, both from the figures and just what's in the news, that France and Germany have been contributing much less than the UK and Eastern European nations. Not just in aid, but in calling out Putin and Russia. Their less than strong condemnation has contributed to Putin thinking he can wait this out. If France and Germany had been as strong from the start, then not only militarily, but politically, then Putin would have been forced to re-think he can divide Europe still and find a win out of this.

 

[Upstart Swan]

Caption was "ваньки так бегут с Херсонского направления, что даже с БТРов падают. Своих не бросаем "
Google translates this as "Vanki run from the Kherson direction so much that they even fall from {BTRs}. We don't leave ours " No idea what Vanki means tho sorry.

Hey Mobbs, I think it's slang for clowns/jerks/idiots. Ва́нька is like a diminutive of Ivan, but in a derogatory way.

 

[wannabejack]

Yeah, they are estimates. The exact amounts don't matter though. It's clear, both from the figures and just what's in the news, that France and Germany have been contributing much less than the UK and Eastern European nations. Not just in aid, but in calling out Putin and Russia. Their less than strong condemnation has contributed to Putin thinking he can wait this out. If France and Germany had been as strong from the start, then not only militarily, but politically Putin would have been forced to re-think he can divide Europe still and find a win out of this.

President Emmanuel Macron - 'It was important not to "humiliate" Russia'.

 

[HirdyLannister]

President Emmanuel Macron - 'It was important not to "humiliate" Russia'.

Russia is doing a good job of humiliating themselves.

 

[wannabejack]

Main discussion on Ukraine starts at 4:55

 

[CD Xbow]

Russia is doing a good job of humiliating themselves.

Yes, on so many fronts.
The Conversation had an article about the potential for Russia's collapse

Could Russia collapse?

There are 3 reasons why we shouldn’t discount the possibility that defeat in Ukraine might make the Kremlin’s edifice crumble.

theconversation.com

I suppose I'm a bit more certain, because to my eyes Russia already is in a state of collapse, it started when the Soviet Empire fell, but hasn't yet completed. Russia is in the 'historical narrative' of transition from Empire to Nation State but hasn't made it yet. In some ways, the RF was a rebranding of the old Soviet regime rather than a fundamentally new system.

 

[wannabejack]

Yes, on so many fronts.
The Conversation had an article about the potential for Russia's collapse

Could Russia collapse?

There are 3 reasons why we shouldn’t discount the possibility that defeat in Ukraine might make the Kremlin’s edifice crumble.

theconversation.com

I suppose I'm a bit more certain, because to my eyes Russia already is in a state of collapse, it started when the Soviet Empire fell, but hasn't yet completed. Russia is in the 'historical narrative' of transition from Empire to Nation State but hasn't made it yet. In some ways, the RF was a rebranding of the old Soviet regime rather than a fundamentally new system.

A second historical fact is that the end of the USSR saw the creation of four new nuclear-armed states: Belarus, Kazakhstan, Russia and Ukraine. But the lesson of Ukraine in 2022 – which in 1991 was the most reluctant of the three non-Russian countries to hand control of the nuclear weapons on its territory back to Moscow – is that it’s vital to retain every instrument of power as potential insurance.

 

[Upstart Swan]

The IfW Kiel research paper on which the Infographic table is based notes that France's contribution can't be fully quantified. So for example they haven't quantified or fully quantified military assistance packages announced by the French at the end of April, in May and at the end of June. The same goes for Italy and Spain.
Also, the Eastern European countries have been sending older, Soviet-era equipment to Ukraine which will in turn be replaced by newer equipment from other NATO countries (so presumably including contributions from France and Germany).
Just saying some of these figures about how much each country is contributing aren't always accurate.

Also, according to this Wikipedia entry, France was the largest arms exporter to Ukraine between 2014 and 2020.

 

[CD Xbow]

Allegedly Ukraine, Turkey & the UN have told Russia that they are organizing a convoy of grain ships for tomorrow.

If true, this will be very interesting.

 

[ibd77]

Allegedly Ukraine, Turkey & the UN have told Russia that they are organizing a convoy of grain ships for tomorrow.

If true, this will be very interesting.

Reminds me of the movie Thirteen Days but I dont think Russia will use starburst rounds to warn ships of encroaching blockade lines.

 

[Chief]

Allegedly Ukraine, Turkey & the UN have told Russia that they are organizing a convoy of grain ships for tomorrow.

Russia have a full strength fleet to stop them. Apart from a couple of ships that got some damaged paintwork after Yuri dropped his cigarette.