Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 3

[ferball]

How is it racist

Are you serious?

 

[Smeg Head]

Are people really referring to Russians as orcs?

WTF is that racist s**t.

The military, not the people as a whole.

 

[wannabejack]

Racist : If you describe people as racist, you mean that they are influenced by the belief that some people are inferior because they belong to a particular race.
Nobody is really saying that Russians are an inferior race.

But it's not hard to see why the people of Ukraine (and some here) use the name orc for the invaders.
In Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings, orcs appear as a brutish, aggressive and malevolent monsters.
Malevolent 1. : having, showing, or arising from intense often vicious ill will, spite, or hatred. 2. : productive of harm or evil.

A United Nations led inquiry has found Russian forces tortured Ukrainians so brutally that some of their victims died. It also says the Russians forced families to listen as they r*ped women in adjacent rooms.
There are plenty more war crimes committed by Russians.

 

[ferball]

The military, not the people as a whole.

Yeah cos ordinary soldiers and conscripts are always the ones who start wars aren't they.

Are you aware the speaker of the Canadian parliament just had to apologise for inviting a former member of the SS in to get a standing ovation in front of Zelensky and Trudeau?

LOL. This whole situation is cooked.

Anyway stop calling your fellow humans orcs.

Its ****ed.

 

[ferball]

Racist : If you describe people as racist, you mean that they are influenced by the belief that some people are inferior because they belong to a particular race.
Nobody is really saying that Russians are an inferior race.

But it's not hard to see why the people of Ukraine (and some here) use the name orc for the invaders.
In Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings, orcs appear as a brutish, aggressive and malevolent race of monsters.
Malevolent 1. : having, showing, or arising from intense often vicious ill will, spite, or hatred. 2. : productive of harm or evil.

A United Nations led inquiry has found Russian forces tortured Ukrainians so brutally that some of their victims died. It also says the Russians forced families to listen as they r*ped women in adjacent rooms.
There are plenty more war crimes committed by Russians.

Isn't this what the US did to Iraqis in Abu Gharib where a 10 year old was *******ed to death with random objects in front of their parents to try and force them to give up information about the people resisting the illegal US occupation? And what white Australians did to Black Australians as recently as the 1960s in western Queensland?

Tolkiens work has plenty of white supremicist overtones to begin with and the Orcs were a sub elvish race.

Whereas torturing other humans to death is something that's all too human. We like to think its something only monsters do but its actually something humans do and dehumanising people by referring to them as orcs is part of the process than enables it.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Are people really referring to Russians as orcs?

WTF is that racist s**t.

russian soldiers as orcs is fair enough IMO

I see no reason for ukrainian citizens to see invading soldiers as human.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Isn't this what the US did to Iraqis in Abu Gharib where a 10 year old was *******ed to death with random objects in front of their parents to try and force them to give up information about the people resisting the illegal US occupation? And what white Australians did to Black Australians as recently as the 1960s in western Queensland?

Tolkiens work has plenty of white supremicist overtones to begin with and the Orcs were a sub elvish race.

Whereas torturing other humans to death is something that's all too human. We like to think its something only monsters do but its actually something humans do and dehumanising people by referring to them as orcs is part of the process than enables it.

and if iraqis wanted to refer to US military in similar terms (orcs/ trolls/ infidel scum choose your epithet) I'd have no issue with that

 

[Saint]

Yeah, I don't think it's racist to have a derogatory term for the invading forces who are brutalising, raping, ethnically cleansing, stealing children and targetting civilians relentlessly. I think derogatory terms are fine for the Russian military and also those bloggers and talking heads who support and call for more ethnic cleansing and murder.

In the words of a comedian I can't remember which one: " I never wanted to call somebody a c**t and not offend them"

Orcs is a pretty benign derogatory term, given the circumstances.

 

[Mobbs]

A report that the RF were now using decoy vehicles near the frontline, as were Ukraine also doing. Additionally there is a report that RF soldiers would sometimes also wear the uniform of UKR forces at the front, however the tactic has allegedly not yet brought success for the orc katsap terrorist fascists. Oops.

The orc horde also began using false targets on the front. A video has appeared showing three inflatable models of T-72B Sosian tanks. It is reported that this is the Zaporizhzhia region.

In addition, the Sosian podarasi on the Tavria direction use the uniform of the ZSU, however, the Ukrainian military can recognize the enemy and do not allow them to approach their positions. Oleksandr Shtupun, the spokesman of the United Press Center of the Defense Forces of the Tavria Region, said this.

View attachment video_2023-09-26_18-05-49(compressed).mp4

Video is compressed almost 50% for purposes of embedding on BF. Original quality can be viewed at the TG [source]

 

[Nothing]

Are people really referring to Russians as orcs?

WTF is that racist s**t.

Should we refer to them as liberators?

Just good folk ridding Ukraine of Nazis?

Misunderstood?

Also what race are Russians?

 

[ferball]

russian soldiers as orcs is fair enough IMO

I see no reason for ukrainian citizens to see invading soldiers as human.

Are Ukrainian citizens posting on this website?

Yeah, I don't think it's racist to have a derogatory term for the invading forces who are brutalising, raping, ethnically cleansing, stealing children and targetting civilians relentlessly. I think derogatory terms are fine for the Russian military and also those bloggers and talking heads who support and call for more ethnic cleansing and murder.

In the words of a comedian I can't remember which one: " I never wanted to call somebody a c**t and not offend them"

Orcs is a pretty benign derogatory term, given the circumstances.

Fine call them campaigners then.

Its amazing the bullshit hoops people jump thru to justify bigotry. It was 100 years ago and it seems nothing has changed.

 

[ferball]

Should we refer to them as liberators?

Just good folk ridding Ukraine of Nazis?

Misunderstood?

Also what race are Russians?

Russians are members of the human race.

 

[Fire]

Are people really referring to Russians as orcs?

WTF is that racist s**t.

I'm not calling them Orcs as I do think its dehumanizing; but no, people are only calling the Russian Military Orcs, not Russians. Its because of their green uniforms and that they are an invading force, hence the LotR reference.

 

[Mobbs]

Are Ukrainian citizens posting on this website?

I know of 6 who have seen stuff posted on this thread, because I've shared it with them.

Fine call them campaigners then.

https://war.ukraine.ua/russia-war-crimes/

"Orc" is a very gentle term for the absolute monsters implicated in this endless list of atrocities.

Its amazing the bullshit hoops people jump thru to justify bigotry. It was 100 years ago and it seems nothing has changed.

Plenty has changed, for instance now we can spot when an apologist trying to be "anti" is incensed the perpetrators of genocide are getting called nasty names.

 

[Mobbs]

Poland confirms that Russia is to blame for the errant missile which killed two civilians on its territory late last year.

Investigators revealed that the farm was struck by a Ukrainian air defence missile, which therefore indicates that it was a response to Russian missile aggression.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

Are Ukrainian citizens posting on this website?

Fine call them campaigners then.

Its amazing the bullshit hoops people jump thru to justify bigotry. It was 100 years ago and it seems nothing has changed.

ORCampaigners

 

[LittleG]

ORCampaigners

ObscenelyRepulsiveCampaignerS?

 

[Sir_Loin]

Are you serious?

Yes I’m serious. Please explain.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Are Ukrainian citizens posting on this website?

Fine call them campaigners then.

Its amazing the bullshit hoops people jump thru to justify bigotry. It was 100 years ago and it seems nothing has changed.

I don’t see why you care about them being called orca if you are ok with them being campaigners. Seems an odd waste of energy to stick up for invading scum.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Russians are members of the human race.

I don’t see Putin or Russian military as human. Go ahead and report my post if you want.

 

[Frank Grimes]

Russians are members of the human race.

I think it was explained before. The term is not directed at a person being Russian, it is specifically for the soldiers who are invading Ukraine. The term is based on the person a actions, not their race or nationality (Though note I personally never used the term orc myself).

And yes it is soldiers who are firing missiles into apartment buildings, hospitals, theatres with large writing of "children" on it.

It is soldiers who are kidnapping Ukrainian children and sending them to all parts of Russia to be adopted and "re-educated".

It is soldiers firing missiles into the electrical grid during winter hoping the populace will freeze to death.

It is soldiers who murdered the civilians in Bucha.

It was soldiers who blown up the dam on Dnipro river flooding villages and parts of Kherson.

It is Russian soldiers who are invading another sovereign country.

Guns and missiles don't fire themselves. It takes someone to pull the trigger, and it is the soldiers who are pulling the trigger.

But hey, let's not call these soldiers names because it might hurt their feelings.

Before you say something along the lines of "you are nieave to think Ukrainian soldiers don't cross the line", I am aware of that but it clearly isn't anywhere on the scale or systemic as what the Russian soldiers are doing.

 

[Zidane98]

Yeah cos ordinary soldiers and conscripts are always the ones who start wars aren't they.

Are you aware the speaker of the Canadian parliament just had to apologise for inviting a former member of the SS in to get a standing ovation in front of Zelensky and Trudeau?

LOL. This whole situation is cooked.

Anyway stop calling your fellow humans orcs.

Its ****ed.

What a load of utter nonsense.

Orc isn't a racial term whatsoever. It is a derogatory label used for soldiers who invade Ukraine and commit horrific war crimes all in their belief that Ukranians aren't a real culture and Ukraine isn't a real nation.

They're absolutely orc scum and should be labelled as such. The soldiers that don't harm Ukranians and surrender to Ukraine armed forces are no longer orcs - they made the choice to not impose Putin's facism on Ukranians.

 

[swingdog]

Russian soldiers being called nasty names…yeah, that’s what we should be focusing on.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

The pearl clutching here is hilarious

 

[Mobbs]

Given Russia's army is full of conscripts and others who can't get out of it the language is certainly immature. Australians are not Ukrainian soldiers who need to psych themselves up.

Ukrainians will often refer to Russian invaders as "katsap" which is simply a perjorative based on a classic stereotype. In turn, the Russians will use a perjorative "khokhol", which I think derives from some headwear that might have been prolific in the region.

In both cases, these terms are intended (within the framework of the current terrorist invasions) to be as vitriolic as the "orc" term. But all stem locally on one side or the other.

I do agree that terms like terrorist, perpetrators of genocide, ethnic cleansers, torturers, etc are more definitive descriptions than that of "orc".