Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

[Gethelred]

This is the thread for discussing the War in Ukraine. Should you want to discuss the geopolitics, the history, or an interesting tangent, head over here:

Europe - Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

This is the thread for the geopolitics, history and framework around the Russia-Ukraine conflict. If you want to discuss the events of the war, head over to this thread: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/war-in-ukraine-thread-4-thread-rules-updated.1376293/page-146

www.bigfooty.com

If a post isn't directly concerning the events of the war or starts to derail the thread, report the post to us and we'll move it over there.

Seeing as multiple people seem to have forgotten, abuse is against the rules of BF. Continuous, page long attacks directed at a single poster in this thread will result in threadbans for a week from this point; doing so again once you have returned will make the bans permanent and will be escalated to infractions.

This thread still has misinformation rules, and occasionally you will be asked to demonstrate a claim you have made by moderation. If you cannot, you will be offered the opportunity to amend the post to reflect that it's opinion, to remove the post, or you will be threadbanned and infracted for sharing misinformation.

Addendum: from this point, use of any variant of the word 'orc' to describe combatants, politicians or russians in general will be deleted and the poster will receive a warning. If the behaviour continues, it will be escalated. Consider this fair warning.

Finally: If I see the word Nazi or Hitler being flung around, there had better have a good faith basis as to how it's applicable to the Russian invasion - as in, video/photographic evidence of POW camps designed to remove another ethnic group - or to the current Ukrainian army. If this does not occur, you will be threadbanned for posting off topic

This is a sensitive area, and I understand that this makes for fairly incensed conversation sometimes. This does not mean the rules do not apply, whether to a poster positing a Pro-Ukraine stance or a poster positing an alternative view.

Behave, people.

 

[Mobbs]

Here we see drone footage of a drone shot down by a drone.

View attachment IMG_2676.MP4

Very interesting video. A Ukrainian drone captures the moment a Russian reconnaissance UAV was shot down by another Ukrainian FPV drone. [Mysiagin TG]

 

[Cap]

Australia's new army tanks shown off at weapons expo

The American-made M1A2 will replace an older fleet that's speculated to be donated to the Ukrainian war effort.

www.abc.net.au

For months Ukraine has lobbied Australia to donate its older M1A1 tanks, along with earlier deliveries of Bushmaster armoured vehicles, to help bolster its fight against Russia but the army chief has declined to say whether he supports gifting Abrams.

We better be donating them. It's insanity if we just mothball them.

 

[CD Xbow]

Australia's new army tanks shown off at weapons expo

The American-made M1A2 will replace an older fleet that's speculated to be donated to the Ukrainian war effort.

www.abc.net.au

We better be donating them. It's insanity if we just mothball them.

My understanding is that we essentially swap them for the new ones while the old ones get returned to the states and are either upgraded or mothballed. It becomes a US decision if they go to Ukraine.

 

[Saint]

The MoD in Russia is run about as well as Victorian Treasury

 

[Zidane98]

The MoD in Russia is run about as well as Victorian Treasury

Their propaganda department is a shocker these days.

 

[Zidane98]

Australia's new army tanks shown off at weapons expo

The American-made M1A2 will replace an older fleet that's speculated to be donated to the Ukrainian war effort.

www.abc.net.au

We better be donating them. It's insanity if we just mothball them.

Yes, unlike mothballed FA-18s which would have required huge investment to bring up to serviceable condition just to fly back to Ukraine tanks should be easy to ship over and reactivate.

 

[Zidane98]

 

[Zidane98]

An interesting potential target for Storm Shadow.....

 

[sdfc]

You realise that the reason that argument is bollocks is because they got stopped in Ukraine right?

If they had walked through Ukraine in 2 weeks and parked an army near Poland, would it be bollocks then?

On SM-A346E using BigFooty.com mobile app

Nato would smoke Russia. Why would Russia choose a costly occupation of the whole of Ukraine? It makes no sense.

 

[Mobbs]

On the actual war topic, Russia has launched a solid counter-attack in parts of the Kursk region where Ukraine have acquired territory. There is undeniably a strong counter south-west of Koronevo and some settlements were returned to RF control. The town of Snagost is the cusp point, the one point where milbloggers contend opposing claims from opposing camps.

Then, following this, Ukrainian forces crossed the border south of Glushkovo, creating two spurs of acquired or at least now contested territory. This is, at this point, smaller scale than the RF counter at this point (a counter-counter-offensive, says Dom Nicholls on Ukraine the Latest), but if it solidifies and grows, will threaten one of the fronts on the RF counter with encirclement.

Haven't heard a word about the rest of the Kursk front since this happened - it's just can't compete with this headline but there's probably still things happening, though likely largely much slower.

Over near Pokrovsk, the actual approach to Pokrovsk is barely moving but a side-spur of RF advance is happening going perpendicular (west-south-west v Pokrovsk's west-north-west. This has had many switches of play over the last week or so, with RF still making crawling advances. The last I read was another push by RF that gained territory, then lost it again.

Niu York etc, is also faded from the news since Ukraine retook most of it.

RF actually finally snuck across the channel outside Chasiv Yar which threatened to finally make movement toward that town, but the latest reports are that it was largely nullified by Ukrainian response, however the map still shows a sliver of RF presence over the channel (Chasiv Yar is 95% situated on the west side of a river-like channel, and the 5% on the east side has been occupied by RF for ages now).

That's just me interpreting reports I read, can't guarantee I have everything spot on nor worded it all sufficiently.

 

[Zidane98]

Nato would smoke Russia. Why would Russia choose a costly occupation of the whole of Ukraine? It makes no sense.

Russia's current occupation is too costly to maintain. Talking 1 million plus deaths for Russia, economy wrecked, hardship for the everyday person in Russia if this was to continue long term for another 2-3 years min.

This is simply a price too much to pay for an invasion bringing zero benefit to the so called Russian Federation.

 

[Zidane98]

On the actual war topic, Russia has launched a solid counter-attack in parts of the Kursk region where Ukraine have acquired territory. There is undeniably a strong counter south-west of Koronevo and some settlements were returned to RF control. The town of Snagost is the cusp point, the one point where milbloggers contend opposing claims from opposing camps.

Then, following this, Ukrainian forces crossed the border south of Glushkovo, creating two spurs of acquired or at least now contested territory. This is, at this point, smaller scale than the RF counter at this point (a counter-counter-offensive, says Dom Nicholls on Ukraine the Latest), but if it solidifies and grows, will threaten one of the fronts on the RF counter with encirclement.

Haven't heard a word about the rest of the Kursk front since this happened - it's just can't compete with this headline but there's probably still things happening, though likely largely much slower.

Over near Pokrovsk, the actual approach to Pokrovsk is barely moving but a side-spur of RF advance is happening going perpendicular (west-south-west v Pokrovsk's west-north-west. This has had many switches of play over the last week or so, with RF still making crawling advances. The last I read was another push by RF that gained territory, then lost it again.

Niu York etc, is also faded from the news since Ukraine retook most of it.

RF actually finally snuck across the channel outside Chasiv Yar which threatened to finally make movement toward that town, but the latest reports are that it was largely nullified by Ukrainian response, however the map still shows a sliver of RF presence over the channel (Chasiv Yar is 95% situated on the west side of a river-like channel, and the 5% on the east side has been occupied by RF for ages now).

That's just me interpreting reports I read, can't guarantee I have everything spot on nor worded it all sufficiently.

The counter attack in Kursk was inevitable and entirely predictable.


Wonder what the Ukrainians came up with in advance.

 

[petrie pie]

An interesting potential target for Storm Shadow.....

Mate you accuse me of Russian propaganda,well judging the number of posts here by you there is no bigger lackey of Zelenski and the west than you.I will be interested to see if this post gets the same treatment as my other recent posts do and you speak of Russian control of the media,just look at what the French did to Pavlov and the same thing is happening here to me.

That is alright though because I will be proven correct in the long and dolts like you cannot accept this,I guess the mod will ban me now because he like you does not like the truth.

 

[Chief]

/\ I don't understand what this post is about.

 

[Mobbs]

Mate you accuse me of Russian propaganda,well judging the number of posts here by you there is no bigger lackey of Zelenski and the west than you.I will be interested to see if this post gets the same treatment as my other recent posts do and you speak of Russian control of the media,just look at what the French did to Pavlov and the same thing is happening here to me.

That is alright though because I will be proven correct in the long and dolts like you cannot accept this,I guess the mod will ban me now because he like you does not like the truth.

The two statements in the post are:

• Storm Shadow can reach up to 560km.
• Putin has a palace in Sochi.

And the one inferred assumption is that if the above two are true, that:
- the palace in Sochi is within 560km of from where Ukraine could launch a Storm Shadow missile.

Zidane's text is not a claim but more or less repeats the question in the post, which is reliant on the above 3 claims being true.

So, which of the 3 claims do you contest? Maybe we can search it up and see if you're right.

 

[petrie pie]

/\ I don't understand what this post is about.

What do you not understand about it,I would have it is quite simple it is an observation about this particular poster political bent surely even you can see that. I can see that from a great many people replies to me that they have no interest in the truth about Ukr Rus conflict and want me to stop me posting and want to know where I get my information from and I can tell you now it is not Sky News and the Australian.

If they opened their eyes they could see the fools they are being taken for,sometimes you have to look at both sides of an argument to get a true picture.

 

[dumb]

Mate you accuse me of Russian propaganda,well judging the number of posts here by you there is no bigger lackey of Zelenski and the west than you.I will be interested to see if this post gets the same treatment as my other recent posts do and you speak of Russian control of the media,just look at what the French did to Pavlov and the same thing is happening here to me.

That is alright though because I will be proven correct in the long and dolts like you cannot accept this,I guess the mod will ban me now because he like you does not like the truth.

mobbs is about as even as you could get on the topic. regularly points out positive news from the ukrainian side should be taken with a grain of salt, that it needs further confirmation etc. doesn't shy away from things like mentioning russian advances into pokrovsk that are happening whilst kursk is being overtaken.

 

[petrie pie]

The two statements in the post are:

• Storm Shadow can reach up to 560km.
• Putin has a palace in Sochi.

And the one inferred assumption is that if the above two are true, that:
- the palace in Sochi is within 560km of from where Ukraine could launch a Storm Shadow missile.

Zidane's text is not a claim but more or less repeats the question in the post, which is reliant on the above 3 claims being true.

So, which of the 3 claims do you contest? Maybe we can search it up and see if you're right.

Is this the same as his 50+ other posts about his and your point of viewpoint.I will debate you anytime about Ukr Rus conflict you obviously are lacking in the old grey matter.

You do realise that the next place to be bombed will be UK sure as apples.

 

[petrie pie]

mobbs is about as even as you could get on the topic. regularly points out positive news from the ukrainian side should be taken with a grain of salt, that it needs ruther confirmation etc. doesn't shy away from things like mentioning russian advances into pokrovsk that are happening whilst kursk is being overtaken.

Kursk is going down rapidly in 2weeks we will not be talking about Kursk it will be all over red rover by then.
As for your affirmation that this poster is as fair as it gets well maybe if you have same opinion as they do but if differs expect to be attacked.

 

[Mobbs]

Is this the same as his 50+ other posts about his and your point of viewpoint.I will debate you anytime about Ukr Rus conflict you obviously are lacking in the old grey matter.

You do realise that the next place to be bombed will be UK sure as apples.

Sorry I think my post got corrupted somehow. Unsure how it apparently didn't post clearly. What I meant to say was is as follows.


The two statements in the post are:

• Storm Shadow can reach up to 560km.
• Putin has a palace in Sochi.

And the one inferred assumption is that if the above two are true, that:
- the palace in Sochi is within 560km of from where Ukraine could launch a Storm Shadow missile.

Zidane's text is not a claim but more or less repeats the question in the post, which is reliant on the above 3 claims being true.

So, which of the 3 claims do you contest? Maybe we can search it up and see if you're right.

 

[dumb]

Kursk is going down rapidly in 2weeks we will not be talking about Kursk it will be all over red rover by then.
As for your affirmation that this poster is as fair as it gets well maybe if you have same opinion as they do but if differs expect to be attacked.

not going to get into the nitty gritty of the battlefield. what you say may well be true, time will tell.
yes, there's lots of barrackers for team ukraine here, no-one will disagree with you on that.

 

[Zidane98]

Is this the same as his 50+ other posts about his and your point of viewpoint.I will debate you anytime about Ukr Rus conflict you obviously are lacking in the old grey matter.

You do realise that the next place to be bombed will be UK sure as apples.

Why would the UK be bombed?

 

[Mobbs]

I did a bit of preliminary research and the so-called palace is not actually located in Sochi, but much closer to Novorossysk, kind of between there and Tuapse. This is closer to Ukraine than Sochi.

Whether its still in use as a location for Putin, or even if its in use at all, is in question, as it was reportedly first lush, then in a state of disrepair, and finally cleaned up but much less lavish - as though it was being repurposed.

Haven't looked into Storm Shadow range at all. Busy playing computer games!

 

[Zidane98]

I did a bit of preliminary research and the so-called palace is not actually located in Sochi, but much closer to Novorossysk, kind of between there and Tuapse. This is closer to Ukraine than Sochi.

Whether its still in use as a location for Putin, or even if its in use at all, is in question, as it was reportedly first lush, then in a state of disrepair, and finally cleaned up but much less lavish - as though it was being repurposed.

Haven't looked into Storm Shadow range at all. Busy playing computer games!

It's amusing someone could get so triggered about Putin's palace supposedly being taken out by a Storm Shadow.

 

[sdfc]

Russia's current occupation is too costly to maintain. Talking 1 million plus deaths for Russia, economy wrecked, hardship for the everyday person in Russia if this was to continue long term for another 2-3 years min.

This is simply a price too much to pay for an invasion bringing zero benefit to the so called Russian Federation.

I reckon the Russians thought it would be a short war and now they're stuck. A withdrawal would be a huge backdown that I don't see happening.

In the absence of diplomacy, that means they're going to have to be pushed out. How long does that take and what does it look like?