Europe Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

[Gethelred]

This is the thread for the geopolitics, history and framework around the Russia-Ukraine conflict. If you want to discuss the events of the war, head over to this thread:

Europe - War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

This is the thread for discussing the War in Ukraine. Should you want to discuss the geopolitics, the history, or an interesting tangent, head over here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/backdrop-to-the-war-in-ukraine.1302028/ If a post isn't directly concerning the events of the war or...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[wannabejack]

...

Throughout, the Putin regime had maintained that the membership of Ukraine in NATO was a bridge too far.
...

From an article March 2022
Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky has accepted that his country will not become a member of NATO, one of the demands made by Russia before it invaded.
The admission that Kyiv will not join NATO could change the stakes for diplomacy, which has so far failed to end the hostilities nearly three weeks on from the start of the invasion on February 24.

Zelensky was willing to agree to not joining NATO early on during the invasion. Putin could have withdrawn his troops.
“The membership of Ukraine in NATO was a bridge too far” was just another excuse to invade Ukraine. Putin continued the invasion.

 

[Chief]

In the end Putin will get what he wants, I think. Not enough will from Ukraine's allies. Not enough people in Ukraine so war weariness setting in. Sad but I think true.

 

[IlovethePies]

This ignores the openly tsarist and imperial aims that Putin himself has outlined.

He would be chuffed you’re doing his homework for him.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Yes, Putin utilises Russian nationalism to justify the war, like every political figure ever who has ever launched a war. His extreme nationalism and Great Russia chauvinism is the basis for attempting to mobilise domestic support within Russia for the "military operation".

There are extreme right wing, Russian chauvinist, fascistic elements in the Russian military who indeed would be even more extreme than Putin in their aim to incorporate Ukraine into Greater Russia. These layers, and other fascist elements in the Russian oligarchy, would indeed by applying pressure on Putin to respond to Ukrainian missile attacks with NATO ballistic missiles on Russian territory with far less restraint than he is now.

Should these elements either persaude Putin, or overthrow him and seize political control of Russia, they will not hesitate to retaliate with missile strikes on European NATO capitals, conventional at first, but we all know where that leads.

Hence, for all those fools here claiming that "Putin is too gutless" to use a nuclear weapon, this is just such a simplistic analysis. The Russian ruling class is not one monolith united around Putin. It is a bubbling cauldron of conflict, containing some of the most fascist and unhinged elements (just like Zelensky's regime).

There are fractions within it which are deeply unhappy with how "moderate" Putin's policy thus far has been. These elements could rise to the top, - for example, if the Russian economy starts to collapse, or in the event of a substantial NATO military attack. A successful coup against Putin led by these forces - which are even more violently right wing and ultranationalist character than Putin himself can lead in only one direction: the spread of the war across the European continent first, and then nuclear escalation.

Unless this war is stopped, the logic on both sides is to escalation and all that implies.

 

[IlovethePies]

Repeats Russia's disinformation as if from the textbook, but aghast anyone might claim its a defence of Putin's honour.

^Repeats the standard pro US./NATO response.

"What we say is true and must be believed unconditionally, and whoever disagrees with us is automatically an agent of Putin. "

 

[Zidane98]

^Repeats the standard pro US./NATO response.

"What we say is true and must be believed unconditionally, and whoever disagrees with us is automatically an agent of Putin. "

There isn't a single poster in here who supports US/NATO.

Plenty that support Ukraine and its right to not be subject to a fascist imperialist invasion.

This is not a new thing, Russians have been invading, genociding Ukranians going back to the 1800s.

 

[Aussie in exile]

^Repeats the standard pro US./NATO response.

"What we say is true and must be believed unconditionally, and whoever disagrees with us is automatically an agent of Putin. "

Like me are you of the opinion that Russia should withdraw from all Ukrainian land?