List Mgmt. We Got Him! Beams Trade Discussion (Not the Hype Thread)

[MSB ROYS]

Im guessing a lot of Dad's have had to sit through the movie a few times???? (Dont envy my BIL's with Daughters :S)

Yes, many times!

 

[Back2Back2Back]

It's not just fathers - my wife is insanely in love with Frozen. At least this movie has given the Pitch Perfect DVD a rest in our house.

 

[Eons]

Im guessing a lot of Dad's have had to sit through the movie a few times???? (Dont envy my BIL's with Daughters :S)

At least 20 times, my 2 year old is obsessed with it.

 

[jackess]

Which team does Frozen play for? Is he a free agent?

 

[josephs_79]

At least 20 times, my 2 year old is obsessed with it.

Last post off topic I swear but for the Dad's out there as above this one is for you:

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/pa...n-ruined-my-life/story-fnet08ui-1227071271814

Which team does Frozen play for? Is he a free agent?

Plays for the Frost Giants, I believe GWS are changing their name.....

 

[AB09]

Pick 4 and a fringe player...no more. If that fails then we'll use pick 4 for a potential star for our own needs.....then we'll get Beams next year after he's had a year off football. Our premiership window doesn't start next year so we can afford to be firm with Collingwood and sympathetic to the Beams family without selling the farm.

Are you sure Dayne would want to have a year off football ?

Also, how is making him wait another 12 months being sympathetic to the Beams family, when clearly his and his family's wishes are for him to move north and play with the Lions in 2015.

 

[Ironmonger]

Despite what gets reported in the media, I reckon the back and forth between the clubs has actually been pretty positive.

What Collingwood have said publicly seems to boil down to:

We want an experienced player from somewhere, which we can get from Brisbane or from another club using what Brisbane give us in trade. We want something more than pick 4.

And what Brisbane have said publicly seems to boil down to:

We’re prepared to offer pick 4, which we think is a very valuable pick. This is our initial bargaining position.

To me these seem like very fair opening positions, and I’d be very surprised if we couldn’t come to a deal from those positions.

 

[Football Pope]

Are you sure Dayne would want to have a year off football ?

Also, how is making him wait another 12 months being sympathetic to the Beams family, when clearly his and his family's wishes are for him to move north and play with the Lions in 2015.

Anything is possible.....

 

[Fatcat08]

crisp or lester plus pick 4 ????
seems we would be getting shafted. Maybe a swap of first round picks and one of those 2..

Not sure how you equate that to being shafted? We're talking about a high pick and a fringe player for a top 15-20 player in all reality. I'd say we'd be doing very well out of that deal.

Not directed at you but I'm very surprised with the overrating of Crisp on here. Yes he had a decent finish to the end of the season and had some reasonably high possession games and kicked some goals. However he also had a tendency to still butcher the ball quite a bit. This is from a guy who has been on the list for three whole seasons now. I'm aware some players mature at different rates but it is still a bit concerning. I tend to think he's still very much a fringe player next season. With Rich and Redden back and Cutler likely to feature down back as well I see Mayes moving back into that high half forward/wingman that crisp played at the end of the season. People tend to forget how good he was in that role in season one. Given a choice of the two I certainly know which one I'm picking and which one I'd rather have kicking to me inside 50. Don't get me wrong I like Crisp and he certainly has some good attributes but if we have to give him up to get Beams then I doubt we'd pause for too long given who we have to fill that role in our team.

 

[ZoBlitz]

Let's not forget that Crisp was probably close to being delisted halfway through the year as well.

 

[Kevvo]

Not sure how you equate that to being shafted? We're talking about a high pick and a fringe player for a top 15-20 player in all reality. I'd say we'd be doing very well out of that deal.

Not directed at you but I'm very surprised with the overrating of Crisp on here. Yes he had a decent finish to the end of the season and had some reasonably high possession games and kicked some goals. However he also had a tendency to still butcher the ball quite a bit. This is from a guy who has been on the list for three whole seasons now. I'm aware some players mature at different rates but it is still a bit concerning. I tend to think he's still very much a fringe player next season. With Rich and Redden back and Cutler likely to feature down back as well I see Mayes moving back into that high half forward/wingman that crisp played at the end of the season. People tend to forget how good he was in that role in season one. Given a choice of the two I certainly know which one I'm picking and which one I'd rather have kicking to me inside 50. Don't get me wrong I like Crisp and he certainly has some good attributes but if we have to give him up to get Beams then I doubt we'd pause for too long given who we have to fill that role in our team.

Very good post I think.

I really liked a few of Crisp's attributes, especially athletically, but I'm confident he wouldn't get a run in our best 22 where everyone is healthy. If it is the case that he gets Beams over the line, I would be very comfortable with that.

 

[Fatcat08]

Very good post I think.

I really liked a few of Crisp's attributes, especially athletically, but I'm confident he wouldn't get a run in our best 22 where everyone is healthy. If it is the case that he gets Beams over the line, I would be very comfortable with that.

Then you have to question what currency does he then really have if he can't make our best 22 (which I agree with by the way)? If we came away with Beams and lost our first two picks and a Crisp/Lester then I would say we have easily come out on top in that trade scenario and would still be significant unders for a player of Beams calibre. If we do any better than that then Schwab will deserve this years Rob Kerr medal.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Despite what gets reported in the media, I reckon the back and forth between the clubs has actually been pretty positive.

Agreed, everything that has unfolded from the two clubs to date is entirely controlled, unsurprising and predictable.

As such it is a little bit amusing the vitriolic and seemingly personal reaction Dean Warren has incited on the Pies board. He is one of the most benign, unassuming and unprovocative blokes you could ever meet.

For some reason, our ambit claim is grossly offensive, and Collingwood's ambit claims are just Bucks and Hine doing their job.

I can appreciate that the dynamics of this scenario makes it a more emotionally stirring time for Pies fans, but still... the emotional expenditure being wasted on Dean Warren of all people...

 

[scoman]

Then you have to question what currency does he then really have if he can't make our best 22 (which I agree with by the way)? If we came away with Beams and lost our first two picks and a Crisp/Lester then I would say we have easily come out on top in that trade scenario and would still be significant unders for a player of Beams calibre. If we do any better than that then Schwab will deserve this years Rob Kerr medal.

I know we are going around in circles, but we can't do a three for one deal. Pick 5, 25 and Crisp/Lester would need a 2nd or third round coming back our way.

We have too many list spots to fill to be offering 3 for 1 and perhaps even 2 for 1 deals IMHO.

 

[AB09]

Not sure how you equate that to being shafted? We're talking about a high pick and a fringe player for a top 15-20 player in all reality. I'd say we'd be doing very well out of that deal.

Not directed at you but I'm very surprised with the overrating of Crisp on here. Yes he had a decent finish to the end of the season and had some reasonably high possession games and kicked some goals. However he also had a tendency to still butcher the ball quite a bit. This is from a guy who has been on the list for three whole seasons now. I'm aware some players mature at different rates but it is still a bit concerning. I tend to think he's still very much a fringe player next season. With Rich and Redden back and Cutler likely to feature down back as well I see Mayes moving back into that high half forward/wingman that crisp played at the end of the season. People tend to forget how good he was in that role in season one. Given a choice of the two I certainly know which one I'm picking and which one I'd rather have kicking to me inside 50. Don't get me wrong I like Crisp and he certainly has some good attributes but if we have to give him up to get Beams then I doubt we'd pause for too long given who we have to fill that role in our team.

You make a lot of sense Fatcat ;-)

 

[AB09]

I know we are going around in circles, but we can't do a three for one deal. Pick 5, 25 and Crisp/Lester would need a 2nd or third round coming back our way.

We have too many list spots to fill to be offering 3 for 1 and perhaps even 2 for 1 deals IMHO.

Fair point and i'm sure, like most of us, the club is fully aware that we currently have 7 list spots available not counting the Beams trade. However don't expect Collingwood to have any sympathy or care one iota about this in the Beams negotiation, just as we will accordingly not be very sympathetic to them stating that with Beams and Lumumba gone, they have lost over 2300 games worth of experience in the last two seasons.

If 5, 25 and Crisp is what it takes to get the Beams deal done, then so be it. The club will have to plan and come up with alternatives to fill those 7 list spots without our first and second round picks.

 

[SizeMatters]

With bomber apparently coaching the Suns next year I can see GCS trading Ablett for Beams. Only reason not to is because he is a marketers dream and sells the game to the QLD market.

 

[jakson68]

Not sure I agree with this, at least not directly. Lots of three team trade suggestions going around that aren't really three team trades at all - they're two separate trades. e.g. all those Dangerfield scenarios where Collingwood pass on what they get from us and we don't deal with Adelaide at all. Maybe we do a trade prior to the Beams trade, then pass parts of that on to Collingwood. Maybe Collingwood take what they get from us and turn it into that experienced player they insist on, but neither of those are the same thing as having other teams get involved in the Beams trade.
With this in mind, I'd suggest Collingwood need to get this done sooner rather than later, or at least have their next move ready to go as soon as this one happens.

It wouldn't surprise me if Brisbane had to part with Pick 4 and Patfull. Both the pick and Patfull could be given to GWS for a couple of their players (who may wish to come to Victoria). I am not saying that this case in particular will happen, though I do think the pick and/or the player will be ontraded to make it happen.

 

[Fatcat08]

I know we are going around in circles, but we can't do a three for one deal. Pick 5, 25 and Crisp/Lester would need a 2nd or third round coming back our way.

We have too many list spots to fill to be offering 3 for 1 and perhaps even 2 for 1 deals IMHO.

I'd be less worried about filling list spots and more worried about getting an A-Grade midfielder to our club. Worth much more than having to speculate on filling a couple of list spots with lower picks. Given we have a reasonable spread of academy and f/s players available to pick I'd argue that this is a pretty good year to have to fill a few final spots with lower picks. Worth keeping in mind that we pretty much took two drafts worth of first and second round picks last year, missing out on that this year won't really hurt our age profile that much in the long run.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Some suggestion on the Pies board that the McKenna sacking is going to be a game changer in the Beams trade.

Even if Bomber is in the hot seat by Monday morning I don't see it changing anything. Not sure they appreciate the clear separation of powers in the Suns organisation. Ashcroft and Clayton have almost total autonomy on list management.

And even if Bomber is given more sway, he is clearly a "family" coach and is hardly going to come straight in and trade out quality players before he has even developed a rudimentary understanding of the personality dynamics of their list.

 

[Fatcat08]

With bomber apparently coaching the Suns next year I can see GCS trading Ablett for Beams. Only reason not to is because he is a marketers dream and sells the game to the QLD market.

I'd say the main reason is that he's the best player in the comp by a long way and critical to the future chances of the team. the marketing side would be a very distant second.

 

[Fatcat08]

The hopeium pipe being passed around already on the Pies board thinking the McKenna sacking is going to be a game changer in the Beams trade.

Even if Bomber is in the hot seat by Monday morning I don't see it changing anything. Not sure they appreciate the clear separation of powers in the Suns organisation. Ashcroft and Clayton have almost total autonomy on list management.

And even if Bomber is given more sway, he is clearly a "family" coach and is hardly going to come straight in and trade out quality players before he has even developmed a rudimentary understanding of the personality dynamics of their list.

Agree. Cleanouts of personnel tend to happen after a new coaches first year once they have worked out the holes in their list given the gamestyle they're trying to implement. I would have thought it would have made it less likely.

 

[Simba Moyo]

Getting Bomber doesn't give them any more in their salary cap, or change the fact that Claye is still a Lion.

 

[ZoBlitz]

Some still think that football clubs are run like they were in the old days where the coach has absolute control of everything.

 

[SizeMatters]

I'd say the main reason is that he's the best player in the comp by a long way and critical to the future chances of the team. the marketing side would be a very distant second.

He's 31 next season and might have some structural damage to his shoulder. Got a year left in him as a midfielder then he will push forward for a year or two that is ofcourse if his injury allows him to. Beams in the side will give them a better option for the future and may be a better player than Ablett next season as he peaks and Ablett presumably starts his decline.