Welcome to Hawthorn Pick 19: Ryan Burton

[KermitJagger]

The question is not whether Burton will continue to develop if played in the backline, but how much he will develop. How much of a step forward was his 2018 season? That's a really complicated question but I trust the coaches we have to make the call about persisting with him off half back or making the change. Like you I'm excited to see him played as a permanent wing or forward. We'll see what happens.

I'd like to see him watch every tape that exists of Elliot Yeo and strive for that.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

I reckon Burton suffered more than anyone at the loss of Hodge.

He's a huge talent, with great skills, but is still pretty light on and having a guy with that much presence nearby would just give the certainty of what to do and when.

Our back half performed really well in the last half of the season, and while Stratton gets all the plaudits it was Burton doing unheralded lockdown jobs. Found his own initiative and confidence in the back half. Will slowly unleash the brilliance again next year.

Classic Clarko coaching. "Ok kid, you're brilliant, now, turn all that brilliance off for a while and learn a craft your'e completely unfamiliar with. Once you've done that, we will work out your best position and put you there."
He's done it with Sicily to perfection. Burton hasn't come along as quickly after a very bright start.

 

[HolyRioli]

I'd like to see him watch every tape that exists of Elliot Yeo and strive for that.

Except the 2015 Grand Final

 

[SHAKESPEARE]

Except the 2015 Grand Final

Did he play?

 

[HolyRioli]

I reckon Burton suffered more than anyone at the loss of Hodge.

He's a huge talent, with great skills, but is still pretty light on and having a guy with that much presence nearby would just give the certainty of what to do and when.

Our back half performed really well in the last half of the season, and while Stratton gets all the plaudits it was Burton doing unheralded lockdown jobs. Found his own initiative and confidence in the back half. Will slowly unleash the brilliance again next year.

Classic Clarko coaching. "Ok kid, you're brilliant, now, turn all that brilliance off for a while and learn a craft your'e completely unfamiliar with. Once you've done that, we will work out your best position and put you there."
He's done it with Sicily to perfection. Burton hasn't come along as quickly after a very bright start.

Sicily is a good couple of years older than Burton though, and has effectively played one more season (plus a couple developing at Box Hill).

Burton's nearest developmental comparison is Brad Hill, in that he's learning his craft in the ones rather than at Box Hill.

Took Hill a season or two to really grow into his own. Patience people

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Sicily is a good couple of years older than Burton though, and has effectively played one more season (plus a couple developing at Box Hill).

Burton's nearest developmental comparison is Brad Hill, in that he's learning his craft in the ones rather than at Box Hill.

Took Hill a season or two to really grow into his own. Patience people

The difference with Burton is that he had a bolter of a first season then eased, whereas Sicily went from sporadic acts of brilliance to solid, consistent and at times brilliatn defender.

I'm confident Burton will get back there.

 

[Bardo State]

Personally, I see 2018 as the year Burton was asked to learn how to get involved in the game when he wasn't the focal point of our defense.

For a lot of 2017 Burton would anchor himself to a highly targeted key tall from the opposition or as a spare a kick from the play and so naturally the ball was in his area a lot. He didn't have to think too much about how to work himself into the game because defensively he was having the ball kicked to his opponent and offensively he was prioritised as our main kicking outlet from defense.

It started to become clear by the end of last year that Sicily was perhaps more productive in this role due to his contested marking. Since Burton was no longer naturally in the areas where the ball was being kicked, I think he struggled to get into the offensive flow of his game. But late in the year he had games where he was clearly more comfortable in knowing when he could leave space or anticipate a possession chain that he could be involved in to try and break the game open. He also had one of his more impressive defensive displays against the Tigers.

I think the next obvious step in his development is working on his one on one abilities with a loose ball. His game against Richmond was good but there was one particularly cringe worthy instance where he panicked with the ball out in space with Richmond coming to outnumber him in the contest. Ideally what he needs to do there is force a stoppage and if he gets caught htb, so be it. Unfortunately he chose to go to ground appealing for a free that wasn't there. At which point the Richmond boys were away and he couldn't pressure the disposal because he was on his backside. I'd love it if Burton could add a harder ball winning element to his game over the next season or two.

I think Sicily is a good reference point. He has become one of the most effective defensive players in the game and it took him 2 full seasons of up and down form and moments of brilliance to get there. Burton hasn't had the explosive breakout games that Sicily had early but his first full season was at a level of consistency that Sicily's first two seasons don't come close to matching. I'm not sure which of those two is a better predictor of whether a player goes on to become elite, but Burton has a tonne of improvement left in him. He's just now hitting that 50 game mark where the development curve of most elite players starts taking a more sharp upward turn. But even then, his leg injuries might mean that type of acceleration won't come until he's closer to 70 games or so.

I don't know exactly where he'll end up, but he's only 21 and had the most impressive first full season of a Hawthorn player since probably Cyril. He should get there.

 

[Bardo State]

I'd like to see him watch every tape that exists of Elliot Yeo and strive for that.

Interestingly, Yeo didn't crack 15 touches a game until his 4th season. Didn't crack 20 until his 6th. Burton doesn't seem to have the natural inclination for clearance work or contested ball that Yeo has, but becoming a more skillful, outside version of Yeo isn't a terrible target.

 

[tommyk72]

Personally, I see 2018 as the year Burton was asked to learn how to get involved in the game when he wasn't the focal point of our defense.

For a lot of 2017 Burton would anchor himself to a highly targeted key tall from the opposition or as a spare a kick from the play and so naturally the ball was in his area a lot. He didn't have to think too much about how to work himself into the game because defensively he was having the ball kicked to his opponent and offensively he was prioritised as our main kicking outlet from defense.

It started to become clear by the end of last year that Sicily was perhaps more productive in this role due to his contested marking. Since Burton was no longer naturally in the areas where the ball was being kicked, I think he struggled to get into the offensive flow of his game. But late in the year he had games where he was clearly more comfortable in knowing when he could leave space or anticipate a possession chain that he could be involved in to try and break the game open. He also had one of his more impressive defensive displays against the Tigers.

I think the next obvious step in his development is working on his one on one abilities with a loose ball. His game against Richmond was good but there was one particularly cringe worthy instance where he panicked with the ball out in space with Richmond coming to outnumber him in the contest. Ideally what he needs to do there is force a stoppage and if he gets caught htb, so be it. Unfortunately he chose to go to ground appealing for a free that wasn't there. At which point the Richmond boys were away and he couldn't pressure the disposal because he was on his backside. I'd love it if Burton could add a harder ball winning element to his game over the next season or two.

I think Sicily is a good reference point. He has become one of the most effective defensive players in the game and it took him 2 full seasons of up and down form and moments of brilliance to get there. Burton hasn't had the explosive breakout games that Sicily had early but his first full season was at a level of consistency that Sicily's first two seasons don't come close to matching. I'm not sure which of those two is a better predictor of whether a player goes on to become elite, but Burton has a tonne of improvement left in him. He's just now hitting that 50 game mark where the development curve of most elite players starts taking a more sharp upward turn. But even then, his leg injuries might mean that type of acceleration won't come until he's closer to 70 games or so.

I don't know exactly where he'll end up, but he's only 21 and had the most impressive first full season of a Hawthorn player since probably Cyril. He should get there.

Nice analysis.

A few quick reactions:

1/ I think Burton started playing better when he became the main man again (in Sicily’s absence). I’m not sure he has yet mastered the alternate role he was being asked to play.

2/ I think Sicily wasn’t there for 2 seasons. He was up and down as a forward, but adapted pretty well as a Backman.

3/ we are extremely lucky to have two players extremely adept at this role. But I don’t think we need two. It will be interesting to see how clarko shuffles them and others (Frawley, brand, Mirra) according to need.

4/ I can see Burton potentially playing the Gunston role. Forward, wing and back, whenever most needed. Needs a bit more experience as a hit up forward, but think he is talented enough.

5/ I reckon Sicily will be the lynch pin of our defense for many years to come.

 

[JC Hawks]

Interestingly, Yeo didn't crack 15 touches a game until his 4th season. Didn't crack 20 until his 6th. Burton doesn't seem to have the natural inclination for clearance work or contested ball that Yeo has, but becoming a more skillful, outside version of Yeo isn't a terrible target.

Yeo got 22 disposals in his 6th game and cracked multiple 20+ disposals in his second and third season. Don't know where you're getting your information from.

 

[beta_condition]

Yeo got 22 disposals in his 6th game and cracked multiple 20+ disposals in his second and third season. Don't know where you're getting your information from.

He's talking about disposals average.

 

[Bardo State]

Yeo got 22 disposals in his 6th game and cracked multiple 20+ disposals in his second and third season. Don't know where you're getting your information from.

I said 'touches a game'. As in average over a season.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Big season for Burton next year, he's 22 before it begins and already has nearly 50 games under his belt, we really need him to step up to A grade material as he is one of the few options on our list internally that I believe can do it in 2019.

 

[TylerDurden]

Not sure about Burton forward. Doesn’t seem a strong overhead mark at all. Think he’ll stay put and continue to work on his craft.

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

Burton has the same "Baby Giraffe" look to his high-marking attempts that O'Brien does (and before him Tim Boyle).

I don't think that kind of technique/style works well as a KPF unless you have a significant lack of respect for your own safety (Timmy), or are insanely talented (both = Nick Riewoldt) to succeed 'in spite' of the takeoff position. With no balance in the air, you are easily taken from the line of the ball.

If Burton isn't big enough to play as an attacking CHB (I think he is and should be groomed for the role now), I want to see him in the Gunston HFF/wing/HBF role providing aerial threats, speed and great disposal all over the field. I worry he would get lost in that role at the moment - more than anyone else he relied upon Hodge calling the game for him.

I think playing him at CHB will see him produce better performances more consistently as he doesn't need to think - just "tag" his opponent and then beat them with his speed/jump/agility combination. (Same reason Croad could only be FF or CHB, but struggled at CHF/FB until later in his career.

 

[William Wonka]

Center Half Foward.

 

[Jables]

I think we need to switch it up with him personally, he's gotten too comfortable as a backman and despite being a good defender has lost a bit of the rebound he provided there early on. I definitely think he could be a very good player if he played there non stop it just seems like a bit of a waste.

Similarly to how Sicily was on track to be good as a forward, got a bit stale then became very comfortable playing multiple positions once we changed his role drastically. Burton can be so much better than just another good defender, my expectations may be unfairly high.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

I reckon Burton suffered more than anyone at the loss of Hodge.

He's a huge talent, with great skills, but is still pretty light on and having a guy with that much presence nearby would just give the certainty of what to do and when.

Our back half performed really well in the last half of the season, and while Stratton gets all the plaudits it was Burton doing unheralded lockdown jobs. Found his own initiative and confidence in the back half. Will slowly unleash the brilliance again next year.

Classic Clarko coaching. "Ok kid, you're brilliant, now, turn all that brilliance off for a while and learn a craft your'e completely unfamiliar with. Once you've done that, we will work out your best position and put you there."
He's done it with Sicily to perfection. Burton hasn't come along as quickly after a very bright start.

I think this is a really good point. Birch out too and Burgers spending more time in the middle, also reduced our leadership down back.

 

[HawthornHawk]

This must be career best finals performance?

I know for a fact he's had better games that...18 disp, 55% DE, 2 score involvements, 0 goal assists, 4 tackles, 1 I50, 6 rebound 50

A very average game.

Honestly felt like after Stratts went down his performance went a long way to ensuring we didn't get absolutely pumped

 

[OnceKicked50]

Needs a big Summer working on his contested side of the game.

Will be interesting what role Clarko has earmarked for him next year.

 

[PhatHQ]

Honestly felt like after Stratts went down his performance went a long way to ensuring we didn't get absolutely pumped

I think he needs a key responsibility to perform at an elite level.
I don’t care if it’s back, forward or in the middle but whatever education he is getting he should be expected to have a position to become elite with for next season.

 

[matsta1975]

Starting to think he might be part of deal to get Chad to Hawks.

 

[MitchHomieQuan]

Starting to think he might be part of deal to get Chad to Hawks.

Have heard this on and off the last week or two also.

Hopefully not though!

 

[cyrilicious]

Please no..hes the number 5. An untouchable future legend of the club!!

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Starting to think he might be part of deal to get Chad to Hawks.

That would beva terrible decision....