Opinion We're On The Right Path

[exceptional design]

HERE'S the one thing the Hardwick lovers and Richmond apologists ignore ....... the game plan did not work in round two. It did not work in round four. It wasn't working in round 12 and it certainly wasn't working in round 23. This bloke had 20-plus weeks to change it and didn't. We were playing the same crap brand of footy and style in round one as we were in 23. You don't think Dumbwick could have changed something in round 21? 22? 23? He didn't, so stop this nonsense about 'once Hardwick changes his game plan'!!

Agree. This shitty no turnover (which doesn't work) game plan 1st appeared in the NAB Cup 2014 vs Melb.
I remember sitting there with my son saying "what are we doing, we look like crap".

 

[THE THIN MAN]

People thinking the game plan will change in one off season are being overly optimistic.

Players have had the same "tackle free zone" drummed into them for the past 3 seasons.

The saying "Old habits die hard" has never been truer.

When the players are under pressure, they will revert to the old plan.

 

[Football Tragic]

People thinking the game plan will change in one off season are being overly optimistic.

Players have had the same "tackle free zone" drummed into them for the past 3 seasons.

The saying "Old habits die hard" has never been truer.

When the players are under pressure, they will revert to the old plan.

It's been longer than that. I remember Grant Thomas saying that it was a 'pleasure' to play Richmond because they didn't like to tackle so his players were always refreshed for the week after. Wallace played a caroling-style defense too.

 

[tigerdan]

People thinking the game plan will change in one off season are being overly optimistic.

Players have had the same "tackle free zone" drummed into them for the past 3 seasons.

The saying "Old habits die hard" has never been truer.

When the players are under pressure, they will revert to the old plan.

If we play that shit style of play I have no problem whatsoever with Hardwick being sacked. I am at the stage where if we play like that come round one, I will be driving the manure truck myself.

If blind freddy can see this then I expect Caracella and Balme can see it too. Actually I expect (demand if I could) that we will not play that shit game plan next year.

What was interesting in the last game (or was it second last game) when the players no longer GAF and guys like Rioli and I think it was Cotchin just smashed it down the corridor with 10 minutes to go and bingo, we scored like it was a walk in the park.

 

[NZ_Tiger]

5 months ago I started this thread and with the season having ended for us just over a month ago and having had some time to reflect, I want to revisit my opinion.

First off let me say after a year of riding the Richmond rollercoaster, I can say that I still believe we're on the right path. Once our season officially died Hardwick did the right thing and played the kids and gave himself a chance to take a good look at who wants to be part of it and who doesn't. At seasons end we had Conca informed by the club that he would be shipped on, Vickery has all but left just waiting for Free Agency to open up so that it can be official. Lennon has spat the dummy after an injury riddled season saw him struggle for opportunity and a couple of others have also been moved on having either failed to take their chance or having come to the end of the road.

So this now gives us a good starting point to regenerate the list, we have pick 6 in our pocket and the above players moving on should give give us 2-3 second round picks as well. Then there is the Deledio rumor that just won't go away and should he depart for Geelong we should be getting something of quality back, ideally Deledio to Geelong, Motlop to Suns and Prestia to us would be perfect for mine. Maybe swapping some draft picks as well to even up the value of the trade a little. For mine a final deal of Deledio and 42 to Geelong, Motlop and 34 to Suns and Prestia and 27 to us.

We would then enter the draft with pick 6 & hopefully 4 second round picks. As I said an ideal platform to build from and with a new recruiting manager in play we'll hopefully make the most of it and nail the picks that we've invariably missed over the FJ journey. Add 5 top 40 picks to the list with the likes of Rioli Markov C.Ellis Menadue Drummond Short and Castagna from the last couple of drafts and we have a solid young group to put on the park around a solid core of Cotchin Martin Rance & Riewoldt. Not forgetting that we have a decent group below them that while down on form the most part this year were mainly involved in our finals campaigns the previous 3 years. If the likes of Houli (missed half a season) Grigg(top 5 B&F) B.Ellis(whipping boy this year but AA squad member 2 years ago) Vlastuin Lloyd Miles Edwards Griffiths and Astbury can get back to their best form and we can add the unseen Yarran and the quality of Prestia to the mix the team looks a lot better than it did for most of this year. If we could somehow snare Mitchell and maybe Nankervis who there are whispers about and the side improves again.

So that takes care of the on field side of things, off field Balme has come in to hopefully get the football department sorted out. Discount Dan will be relegated to doing what he does best and that is contracts, which will hopefully mean no more overpaying players who don't deserve it. As mentioned the recruiting department has been overhauled, the coaches box is going to be revamped with all new assistants and while some will be disappointed that Hardwick is still in charge I believe that there will be a marked change in game plan for us in 2017.

As I said in another thread, call me moronic if you want but as a Richmond fan it's our lot in life, regardless of what happens we jump on board and we ride the good and the bad each year and come back for more. So I urge my fellow Tigers, stop focusing on the negatives and get on board, the Dogs have just shown that any club can go from a rabble to the top very quickly if they are all pulling in the same direction.

Lol. You also told us Vickery shouldn't be dropped and now your happy to shit can him. Every year the same shit, you remind me of Aussirulesrules he thinks the saints pull all the right strings, your the RFC version. I preferred you in round 22 when you realized we were shit and were all depressed.

 

[SunshineBoy]

People thinking the game plan will change in one off season are being overly optimistic.

Players have had the same "tackle free zone" drummed into them for the past 3 seasons.

The saying "Old habits die hard" has never been truer.

When the players are under pressure, they will revert to the old plan.

Coaching 101 repeat repeat repeat do it becomes automatic

 

[_RT_]

Lol. You also told us Vickery shouldn't be dropped and now your happy to shit can him. Every year the same shit, you remind me of Aussirulesrules he thinks the saints pull all the right strings, your the RFC version. I preferred you in round 22 when you realized we were shit and were all depressed.

The only reason Vickery needed to stay in the side was to maintain value for compo/trading.

Funny thing is before 2015 I actually suggested we would fall away and for a while it seemed possible that would happen. So maybe I'm a year ahead of what others are seeing.

 

[CoggaRules]

The only reason Vickery needed to stay in the side was to maintain value for compo/trading.

Funny thing is before 2015 I actually suggested we would fall away and for a while it seemed possible that would happen. So maybe I'm a year ahead of what others are seeing.

Bwahaahaahaaaa....this is champagne comedy dude, seer of the future

 

[SunshineBoy]

The only reason Vickery needed to stay in the side was to maintain value for compo/trading.

Funny thing is before 2015 I actually suggested we would fall away and for a while it seemed possible that would happen. So maybe I'm a year ahead of what others are seeing.

Link to the we would fall away please.

 

[Madtiger2006]

HERE'S the one thing the Hardwick lovers and Richmond apologists ignore ....... the game plan did not work in round two. It did not work in round four. It wasn't working in round 12 and it certainly wasn't working in round 23. This bloke had 20-plus weeks to change it and didn't. We were playing the same crap brand of footy and style in round one as we were in 23. You don't think Dumbwick could have changed something in round 21? 22? 23? He didn't, so stop this nonsense about 'once Hardwick changes his game plan'!!

Our fitness and preparation leading into the last 3 seasons has been a big reason for the bad starts to the year. There's 42 players and about 20 staff who are there to get this right. Stop blaming the coach. Most game plans are similar. All clubs go sideways and backwards during games. It all comes down to the players intent and talent available. If they go in and chase we look 100 times better. Helps when we have skillful players available such as Yarran and McIntosh playing too. Our players should be under the packs, chasing opponents, hunting the opposition in packs and tackling the opposition more often. To blame everything on the coach is what DC's do. Players gave up by round 16 once finals were no chance with only good efforts against dogs, pies and cats after bad efforts against power and giants. The players love Dimma as was shown against the pies. We just need to trade and draft well to fix our needs and be fitter and ready for the season. Everyone needs to lift. Dimma got us to 3 finals. He can coach

 

[_RT_]

Link to the we would fall away please.

10. Richmond - yep I'm tipping us to slide out of the 8. Reason being that I see us having a little bit of a changing of the guard with a few youngsters coming into the side. Be interesting to see how the fans react to us taking a step back to go 2 forwards from 2016.

I still think that we'll improve but it won't be in terms of wins. As I posted in the Best 22 thread I see a changing of the guard happening and with that change I see us dropping a few games against fellow mid table sides that we'd normally win if we continue to play with the experienced guys we have been relying on the last couple of years. I reckon that is why we've invested heavily in the draft last year to fast track that change. Menadue, Drummond, Lennon, C.Ellis & McDonough are the 5 I reckon will come in and help that change happen. They add some speed, skill and grunt to the side.

Ask and you shall receive, as I said I thought that what happened this year was going to happen last year, we would go with a changing of the guard and phase out some older types in place of the kids. Granted this year it was forced on us somewhat when injury hit, but I've been wanting us to go down this path for a while.

 

[SunshineBoy]

Ask and you shall receive, as I said I thought that what happened this year was going to happen last year, we would go with a changing of the guard and phase out some older types in place of the kids. Granted this year it was forced on us somewhat when injury hit, but I've been wanting us to go down this path for a while.

Fair enough I had us at 2-7

 

[_RT_]

Fair enough I had us at 2-7

I did have us sneaking in the 8 this year, but that was very dependent on the likes of Deledio Yarran Houli and a couple of other middle level players having improved years. As we all know that went pear shaped pretty quickly.

 

[mopsy]

lol

Ok firstly, there has been a number of times where he puts his head over the ball or takes a risk, but for the most part, he plays conservative yes. But that is because he is over coached and lacks composure and confidence.

Remember that match saving tackle against Syndey? (first game), it reeked of desperation. He knew the game was on the long, he forgot about how he was coached, didn't think about the game plan, he knew the game was on the line when he made that tackle.

This is why i think it is purely a confidence thing with Ellis, when he was forced into a situation where he could forget about the game plan, he did really well.

You don't know as much about football as you think you do, if you think Brandon Ellis would be delisted if he was at the dogs.

Not my problem if you can not see the obvious. i would go as far as saying Ellis plays scared most of the time unfortunately he has a fair few mates .

 

[Goldust]

Our fitness and preparation leading into the last 3 seasons has been a big reason for the bad starts to the year. There's 42 players and about 20 staff who are there to get this right. Stop blaming the coach. Most game plans are similar. All clubs go sideways and backwards during games. It all comes down to the players intent and talent available. If they go in and chase we look 100 times better. Helps when we have skillful players available such as Yarran and McIntosh playing too. Our players should be under the packs, chasing opponents, hunting the opposition in packs and tackling the opposition more often. To blame everything on the coach is what DC's do. Players gave up by round 16 once finals were no chance with only good efforts against dogs, pies and cats after bad efforts against power and giants. The players love Dimma as was shown against the pies. We just need to trade and draft well to fix our needs and be fitter and ready for the season. Everyone needs to lift. Dimma got us to 3 finals. He can coach

SHOWING your ignorance again ....... they all kick backwards and sideways, lmao. It worked a treat for us going via the Cape didn't it!
That old chestnut of an excuse ... Yarran. He won't play a game but keeping thinking his issues weren't known and that we didn't just ga,mble on landing that big tuna!!
hang on, I'm confused. The players love Dimma, but they gave up and stopped playing for the guy they love so much by round 16.
And the question has to be asked, we were unprepared? So why are we playing a mix of rookies and first year players in round one of the NAB Cup, and trying to call off round two??? Only think you got right, we were underprepared for the third straight year yet yu think Hardwick plays no part in the lack of preparation of the side he coaches?????

 

[Madtiger2006]

SHOWING your ignorance again ....... they all kick backwards and sideways, lmao. It worked a treat for us going via the Cape didn't it!
That old chestnut of an excuse ... Yarran. He won't play a game but keeping thinking his issues weren't known and that we didn't just ga,mble on landing that big tuna!!
hang on, I'm confused. The players love Dimma, but they gave up and stopped playing for the guy they love so much by round 16.
And the question has to be asked, we were unprepared? So why are we playing a mix of rookies and first year players in round one of the NAB Cup, and trying to call off round two??? Only think you got right, we were underprepared for the third straight year yet yu think Hardwick plays no part in the lack of preparation of the side he coaches?????

We need more midfield depth to begin with. I really hope Yarran returns. We need Vlastuin, Prestia and Pick 6 in there. Do what we can to keep pick 6. Trade Lids and Edwards. Would be awesome if we got Darling and Witts. There's much more to it than Dimma

 

[THE THIN MAN]

Yarran is going to be a long shot at best if he does return; his conditioning will take half a season to catch up.

 

[Goldust]

We need more midfield depth to begin with. I really hope Yarran returns. We need Vlastuin, Prestia and Pick 6 in there. Do what we can to keep pick 6. Trade Lids and Edwards. Would be awesome if we got Darling and Witts. There's much more to it than Dimma

So a team that has landed bugger

We need more midfield depth to begin with. I really hope Yarran returns. We need Vlastuin, Prestia and Pick 6 in there. Do what we can to keep pick 6. Trade Lids and Edwards. Would be awesome if we got Darling and Witts. There's much more to it than Dimma

YES the problems are many but the coach and his game plan are a big part of it and we have seen guys like BEllis go backwards under it. He'll turn Prestia to garbage just as quickly.
So what you are saying - as you do every October - is that we are going to have the best recruiting off-season in the past 30 years ... again!

 

[Madtiger2006]

So a team that has landed bugger

YES the problems are many but the coach and his game plan are a big part of it and we have seen guys like BEllis go backwards under it. He'll turn Prestia to garbage just as quickly.
So what you are saying - as you do every October - is that we are going to have the best recruiting off-season in the past 30 years ... again!

Ellis was found out I think. He's very soft and easily knocked off the ball. Can't break tackles and fumbles a bit. Think we should trade him if we can. We should trade 6 players. Get plenty of second round picks. If we can get pick 20 or so we should offer it with someone like Edwards for Prestia. I think that's pretty fair for a pick 9 player who wants out

 

[exceptional design]

Ellis was found out I think. He's very soft and easily knocked off the ball. Can't break tackles and fumbles a bit. Think we should trade him if we can. We should trade 6 players. Get plenty of second round picks. If we can get pick 20 or so we should offer it with someone like Edwards for Prestia. I think that's pretty fair for a pick 9 player who wants out

Not opposed to Ellis leaving as he seems to have limited impact at present.

But
We have already said good by to Chaplin, Marcon, McBean, McKenzie.
Conca, Lennon, Vickery are looking for a trade.
Yarran, Morris aren't currently playing for the foreseeable future.
Maric probably not either.
Butler hasn't played yet.
Elton, Drummond, Townsend haven't taken opportunities.

That's like 13 players we are already done.
Overall we will have only 22 players with more than 25 games experience available next year.

How many more would you like to trade?

 

[tigerz18]

Not opposed to Ellis leaving as he seems to have limited impact at present.

But
We have already said good by to Chaplin, Marcon, McBean, McKenzie.
Conca, Lennon, Vickery are looking for a trade.
Yarran, Morris aren't currently playing for the foreseeable future.
Maric probably not either.
Butler hasn't played yet.
Elton, Drummond, Townsend haven't taken opportunities.

That's like 13 players we are already done.
Overall we will have only 22 players with more than 25 games experience available next year.

How many more would you like to trade?

i dont know about these 2. Elton showed a bit to start as a key forward next year. played the final 2 games when we had put the cues in the rack, and didnt disgrace himself. He'll get more chances next year. Drummond injured his knee and got 4 gimme games, but was lacking match fitness.

 

[mopsy]

Not opposed to Ellis leaving as he seems to have limited impact at present.

But
We have already said good by to Chaplin, Marcon, McBean, McKenzie.
Conca, Lennon, Vickery are looking for a trade.
Yarran, Morris aren't currently playing for the foreseeable future.
Maric probably not either.
Butler hasn't played yet.
Elton, Drummond, Townsend haven't taken opportunities.

That's like 13 players we are already done.
Overall we will have only 22 players with more than 25 games experience available next year.

How many more would you like to trade?

There are around 25 players on our list that i would hope we are actively looking to upgrade on. 4 of them are gone already possibly 5, It does not include the vast majority of juniors that we have.
Gone already Chaplin, McKenzie, McBean, Marcon and maric??
Obviously 25 odd players can not be cut/traded in one season and even more clearly we cannot replace them all with juniors.

First to go should be the ones who just dont want to be there Conca, Lennon, and Vickery.get what we can for them.
Next to go should be the ones who are soft either physically or mentally and dont crack in, they regularly fail under pressure and hardly ever lead from the front, if we want to change our onfield culture and if we wish to play a more accountable brand of footy Then this core group of mature players just have to go.
Houli, B Ellis, Grimes, Grigg, Griffiths, Hunt, Yarran and again Vickery who falls into two caregories.
Then we have the battlers Batchelor, A Moore, Hampson, Lambert, Townsend, Broad, Elton, Morris, Astbury, and a few of the juniors who i wont mention.

Fair dinkum how hard would it be to upgrade on any of those mentioned. Are we really losing that much if we lost any one of them.

 

[exceptional design]

There are around 25 players on our list that i would hope we are actively looking to upgrade on. 4 of them are gone already possibly 5, It does not include the vast majority of juniors that we have.
Gone already Chaplin, McKenzie, McBean, Marcon and maric??
Obviously 25 odd players can not be cut/traded in one season and even more clearly we cannot replace them all with juniors.

First to go should be the ones who just dont want to be there Conca, Lennon, and Vickery.get what we can for them.
Next to go should be the ones who are soft either physically or mentally and dont crack in, they regularly fail under pressure and hardly ever lead from the front, if we want to change our onfield culture and if we wish to play a more accountable brand of footy Then this core group of mature players just have to go.
Houli, B Ellis, Grimes, Grigg, Griffiths, Hunt, Yarran and again Vickery who falls into two caregories.
Then we have the battlers Batchelor, A Moore, Hampson, Lambert, Townsend, Broad, Elton, Morris, Astbury, and a few of the juniors who i wont mention.

Fair dinkum how hard would it be to upgrade on any of those mentioned. Are we really losing that much if we lost any one of them.

Not really lol. There are a lot of delists that would be upgrades, but I think we have already got rid of most of the non contracted players this year.

 

[SunshineBoy]

Not really lol. There are a lot of delists that would be upgrades, but I think we have already got rid of most of the non contracted players this year.

Why are we talking about up to 25 players need to be gone after 7 years we should be fine tuning the squad not making wholesale changes

 

[exceptional design]

Why are we talking about up to 25 players need to be gone after 7 years we should be fine tuning the squad not making wholesale changes

That was mopsy not me.
Interesting question though is what comes first the chicken (good players) or the egg (winning game plan & good development).

2 years ago, the experts considered the Bulldogs a basket case, now they are young stars.
Swans turn a lot of first year players into gold, even a Rookie this year.

I the egg comes first & the chickens follow. But some think the chickens are the most important part.