Opinion We're On The Right Path

[caroma]

What makes me sad is that I have to take my kids to auskick today and they will want to wear their tiger jumpers. Even the Essendon kids are laughing at them now. They will ask why the other kids are laughing and I don't know what to tell them.

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You remind them that Essendon are a bunch of performance enhancing drug taking cheats and neither the club or its supporters are to be taken seriously regarding anything to do with football.

 

[Schraderbrau]

In the last 50 years, Richmond has averaged a new coach every 3 years. At some stage members need to stand up and admit that the coach isn't the problem. IMO the problem is much more deep seeded problem - it's a cultural thing.

At Melbourne, we had the same problem and we're only just starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel. A big part of getting there as the AFL forcing Peter Jackson to take over who wasn't beholden to the "inner boys club". Part of the deal with Roos was that he had complete and utter power to change whatever he wanted to change.

Stop blaming the coach; it's an easy scapegoat to dismiss the real issues - IMO.

It's not as if they haven't given Hardwick an opportunity. If, as it seems the case, this is the closing of this teams window then Richmond should act immediately and sack him asap rather than waste another season or two. It's highly desirable that a new coach overseas the clean up from ground zero - not 2-3 seasons into a rebuild. About the only thing Carlton have done right the last 20 years was to bring in Bolton at their nadir, rather than a season or two more of MM.

Personally I think the whole cultural argument at Richmond is nonsense however even if there is some truth to it, one of the most important parts of a coaches job description should be ensuring a good culture. If Richmond are failing because of their culture then that's just another cross against Hardwick's name imo.

 

[Schraderbrau]

If a rebuild is on the cards, Richmond should think about putting Deledio up for trade imo. He's 29 so not going to be around for the next tilt and he'd still just about get you into the top 10.

 

[Schraderbrau]

No matter who wins todays game between Blues and Bombers we will be bottom 4, even if it's a draw. I hold Peg, Benny and Dan Richardson responsible for this mess.
Maybe when 3 people turn up for the Dreamtime game they'll start to take us seriously. This kind of defence of Dimma's record is delusional. His teams have only ever performed
after digging themselves into a hole, then once qualifying for finals put the queue in the rack and dish up the most embarrassing finals capitulations I've ever witnessed!

Everyone's shattered, fans, members etc but what pisses me off is everyone keeps saying oh Dimma didn't have the cattle blah blah blah then why we're they recruiting to take a tilt at the flag? Point is they bought into their own BS and something has gone wrong at a higher level than Dimma and his coaching staff. I wouldn't blame the players either.
But to get our club back on track the board need to not only look at the coaching dept but higher up as well, otherwise we can turn over the coach and players and find ourselves back here in 7 yrs. So get the off field dept sorted then sort out coach and players.

I can understand them defending his record because what else are the going to say, but I really hope they don't believe it. It comes down to ambition and Richmond should be aiming a lot higher than finishing in the 8 imo. The problems with Richmond's mature age recruiting is that they've wasted too much time on players who will help them make the 8, and not enough on players who will help them win a premiership.

 

[HARKER]

In the last 50 years, Richmond has averaged a new coach every 3 years. At some stage members need to stand up and admit that the coach isn't the problem. IMO the problem is much more deep seeded problem - it's a cultural thing.
At Melbourne, we had the same problem and we're only just starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel. A big part of getting there as the AFL forcing Peter Jackson to take over who wasn't beholden to the "inner boys club". Part of the deal with Roos was that he had complete and utter power to change whatever he wanted to change.
Stop blaming the coach; it's an easy scapegoat to dismiss the real issues - IMO.

This guy knows what he's talking about as it's never as straightforward as blaming an individual. That individual didn't get to that post himself, anyway.
Hardwick has been thoroughly endorsed by the board, so what now? To oust Hardwick would be declare themselves as incompetent. What to do?

It is a cultural thing and once the bad practices around a club are in play, they're difficult to get rid off for many reasons, but they do always start at top.
Admitting that is the difficult thing as often there are too many egos that will not allow themselves to be trampled over.

 

[Hipster Doofus]

If a rebuild is on the cards, Richmond should think about putting Deledio up for trade imo. He's 29 so not going to be around for the next tilt and he'd still just about get you into the top 10.

Honestly, yes.

 

[Wackelpudding]

Honestly, yes.

What would we get for him though? Could we get a late first rounder from a premiership contender?

 

[_Wang_]

This guy knows what he's talking about as it's never as straightforward as blaming an individual. That individual didn't get to that post himself, anyway.
Hardwick has been thoroughly endorsed by the board, so what now? To oust Hardwick would be declare themselves as incompetent. What to do?

It is a cultural thing and once the bad practices around a club are in play, they're difficult to get rid off for many reasons, but they do always start at top.
Admitting that is the difficult thing as often there are too many egos that will not allow themselves to be trampled over.

tl;dr
#eco

 

[HARKER]

tl;dr
#eco

Fish rots at the head.

Players < Coach < Football Department < Admin < Board < Culture (The Intangible)

 

[tigerdan]

I wouldn't say it blew up in our faces Dan, not once the EF came around.

We won a final under frawley and bingo, 10 more years of shitness. Yet the narrative is "but hardwick can't win a final!" what does that tell us about frawley??? It's fair to say I don't subscribe to the idea that three ef losses is some sort of disaster. Finishing 9th all those times was.

I've said it before, I would have fancied us against hawthorn and Sydney last year. But it's hypothetical.

Funny how three ef losses instantly tell us the coach is no good but the players get off scot free.

Anyway, recent results tell me something not right. Sack all the campaigners!

 

[BF Tiger]

We won a final under frawley and bingo, 10 more years of shitness. It's fair to say I don't subscribe to the idea that three ef losses is some sort of disaster. Finishing 9th all those times was.

I've said it before, I would have fancied us against hawthorn and Sydney last year. But it's hypothetical.

Funny how three ef losses instantly tell us the coach is no good but the players get off scot free.

Anyway, recent results tell me something not right. Sack all the campaigners!

See my avatar... at the moment he is walking backwards down those stairs.

 

[_RT_]

So let me get this straight, RT.

You endorsed the sacking of our last two coaches who had proven they could win finals, despite the fact they ended up - mostly through injury - with worse lists than Hardwick to work with?

While Hardwick, who has not proven he can win finals, gets a pat on the head from you to start over again after 7 years, because he lacked the players to see through his master plan, despite having a comparatively charmed run with injuries and saying over and over and over again that he believes he has the right players?

Seems to me the only opinion you have is 'whatever the board thinks is best, is best'...

Logic and what is right being very much overrated concepts.

Frawley had injuries that is correct, he also had 3 straight seasons winning 7 or fewer games to end his coaching career. So he was given the chance to try and get things back to where they were in 2001 but couldn't do it. As for TW, in 2007 he got his first win in round 12 despite having the majority of his best 22 available at the time, Brown and Simmonds the only 2 that were missing for most of that year. Like Frawley before him he was given another chance to make amends improving in 2008 to an 11 win season before once again going backwards in his final year which ultimately led to his sacking.

Hardwick is having the first down year in his coaching career after constantly improving us year after year, so like the previous 2 coaches he deserves a chance to see if he can get things back on track. He keeps playing younger options and pumping games into them to try and rebuild things and he'll do something that the previous 2 didn't. They tried to get things back on track by relying on their better players to haul them back into contention.

Oh and on their ability to win finals. Frawley was 1-2 in finals while TW was 2-5.

As for Hardwick constantly saying that he has the right players, name a coach in VFL/AFL history that has ever said he doesn't have the right players. Every coach will come out and say he has the group to take the team where they want to go. Imagine a head coach coming out preseason or mid season and saying my list sucks and isn't capable of going anywhere. How long do you think it would be before that coach was sacked? They'd be a chance to get fired mid presser if they did.

Finally just on me saying whatever the board things is best is best, as I said yesterday, before Hardwick mentioned anything about taking a backward step I said that we were witnessing it happening.

 

[_RT_]

Good luck with that i've only been waiting for 30 plus years myself.

Been waiting just as long.

The list is ordinary. Too many slow players. Maric is cooked and Hampson is barely a VFL player. Not enough miss who ooze class. No consistent forward options. We'll be takin five steps backwards this year not one as Hardwick suggested. St Kilda had the balls to move on dal Santo and McEvoy to get young talent. We don't.

Have a feeling that might be about to change when it comes to moving players on. Last night saw a few players stamp their papers.

 

[dean33]

What makes me sad is that I have to take my kids to auskick today and they will want to wear their tiger jumpers. Even the Essendon kids are laughing at them now. They will ask why the other kids are laughing and I don't know what to tell them.

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It's a sad state of affairs isn't it? I have a baby boy and I want him to be a tiger supporter while my wife a Hawk doesn't want him to go through what i do each week and wants him to follow them. Part of me is thinking she may have a point. Tantamount to child abuse forcing your kid to follow this club...

 

[brett_warne]

I know what you mean. We live in geelong and my wife's family are all mad geelong supporters. I did think about letting them follow the cats, the thing I think now is they will not really follow footy at all. They see me over the last 3 years and I don't blame them. The good think is my wife's dad played for a good local club which is where they do auskick. At least we can follow them.

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[Tigerbob]

It's a sad state of affairs isn't it? I have a baby boy and I want him to be a tiger supporter while my wife a Hawk doesn't want him to go through what i do each week and wants him to follow them. Part of me is thinking she may have a point. Tantamount to child abuse forcing your kid to follow this club...

My wife has stated the same thing being a Collingwood supporter herself. She stated the girls don't need to go through what I do and that they should be Pies like her.

I was adamant that wasn't going to happen. Right now I'm Meh about it. She might have got me as this club has broke me. My oldest is about to turn 4 years old so was scheduled to see a couple of games this year with dad. Can't see that happening.

 

[Tigerbob]

So let me get this straight, RT.

You endorsed the sacking of our last two coaches who had proven they could win finals, despite the fact they ended up - mostly through injury - with worse lists than Hardwick to work with?

While Hardwick, who has not proven he can win finals, gets a pat on the head from you to start over again after 7 years, because he lacked the players to see through his master plan, despite having a comparatively charmed run with injuries and saying over and over and over again that he believes he has the right players?

Seems to me the only opinion you have is 'whatever the board thinks is best, is best'...

Logic and what is right being very much overrated concepts.

Brilliant post.

 

[Tiges1229]

It's a sad state of affairs isn't it? I have a baby boy and I want him to be a tiger supporter while my wife a Hawk doesn't want him to go through what i do each week and wants him to follow them. Part of me is thinking she may have a point. Tantamount to child abuse forcing your kid to follow this club...

Hahaha my baby boy is 9 weeks old and already a member .

 

[BF Tiger]

Frawley had injuries that is correct, he also had 3 straight seasons winning 7 or fewer games to end his coaching career. So he was given the chance to try and get things back to where they were in 2001 but couldn't do it. As for TW, in 2007 he got his first win in round 12 despite having the majority of his best 22 available at the time, Brown and Simmonds the only 2 that were missing for most of that year. Like Frawley before him he was given another chance to make amends improving in 2008 to an 11 win season before once again going backwards in his final year which ultimately led to his sacking.

Hardwick is having the first down year in his coaching career after constantly improving us year after year, so like the previous 2 coaches he deserves a chance to see if he can get things back on track. He keeps playing younger options and pumping games into them to try and rebuild things and he'll do something that the previous 2 didn't. They tried to get things back on track by relying on their better players to haul them back into contention.

Oh and on their ability to win finals. Frawley was 1-2 in finals while TW was 2-5.

As for Hardwick constantly saying that he has the right players, name a coach in VFL/AFL history that has ever said he doesn't have the right players. Every coach will come out and say he has the group to take the team where they want to go. Imagine a head coach coming out preseason or mid season and saying my list sucks and isn't capable of going anywhere. How long do you think it would be before that coach was sacked? They'd be a chance to get fired mid presser if they did.

Finally just on me saying whatever the board things is best is best, as I said yesterday, before Hardwick mentioned anything about taking a backward step I said that we were witnessing it happening.

So we've seen twice in a row that coaches don't get things back on track but you want to try for a third time?

 

[prodigy1311]

We recruited Yarran for more drive out of D50, we moved Conca down back to provide accountability, rebound and ball winning ability, we brought Astbury back into the side to replace the aging Chaplin, we brought in role players in Moore & Townsend to give us that bigger bodied presence around the packs. As I mentioned injury has cost us the ability to put these changes into practice as we'd like to have done. Conca Yarran Deledio haven't played as yet which means kids have been asked to fill their roles until they get back and as promising as they are they just aren't good enough to do the same job.


Going by the logic that Hardwick hasn't won a final makes him a poor coach I guess we can label Ross Lyon 0 flags from 4 Grand Finals, Mathouse 3 flags from 8 Grand Finals, Jeans 4 flags from 9 Grand Finals, Hafey 4 from 10 and Blight 2 from 5 poor coaches too.

As for not picking Elton Drummond Castagna over Chaplin Hunt & Morris. Well Drummond has yet to return from the knee he ruined in his debut last year, still 2 weeks away. Elton like McBean hasn't played well enough at VFL level to deserve being picked and Castagna was close to being selected this week having put together 3 weeks of good footy at VFL level.

As for Hunt and Morris being 'required players' Morris was given an extension back when he was among the best small defenders in the comp, then we moved him away from playing that role and he hasn't been the same since. Hunt played 23 games last year as a role player and earned the second year in his original contract. Both would be nothing more than VFL players this year without injuries removing the likes of Yarran Conca & Vlastuin from the back 6. Fully expect that when they get back in the side we won't see the likes of Hunt & Morris again unless injury hits again.

As for trading for Yarran, once again in the last 2 drafts we added 12 players aged under 21, we could spend a couple of second round picks to bring in a difference maker, although it's hard to make much difference sitting up in the stands.


I know you've been against Hardwick for 3 seasons and you don't believe that we're top 4 quality yet last season, with a guy you say can't coach in charge we finished half a game from the top 4. So naturally the club is going to talk about being top 4 heading into this season. Imagine if Hardwick and co came out in January and said we expect to miss finals and take a step backwards as we rejig the side. Do you think we'd get near the 70-75k members we would have budgeted for. Imagine losing 15-20k members from the bottom line, how do you think that would have impacted the footy department budget, as the lost money would have had to come from somewhere. So we see them sell the message that we're hoping to be top 4 and the plan heading into the season no doubt, would have been to make finals again while also bringing through a few younger kids as I explained in the opening post, as form warranted them being selected.

However come March we lose a few best 22 types to longer term injuries which throws the best laid plans out the window. Now Hardwick could have gone one of two ways. He picks similar sides to the ones that got us into finals last year with the likes of Hunt Chaplin & Batchelor retaining their roles, playing both Moore and Townsend every week and leaving C.Ellis Menadue Rioli Short Lennon to play at VFL level or he could play those kids and fast track their development, albeit Lennon and Short are back in the VFL again. At the moment he has gone with the kids here's hoping it continues.

Last night port were without 6-8 players of the best 22. This injury excuse is getting a bit ridiculous! Conca has given nothing, yaran is unknown, vlas has been shit all year. Playing kids is good but not at the expense of thier development and the whole season!

 

[Rubber Hips]

Last night port were without 6-8 players of the best 22. This injury excuse is getting a bit ridiculous! Conca has given nothing, yaran is unknown, vlas has been shit all year. Playing kids is good but not at the expense of thier development and the whole season!

Hate the injury excuse too...

Their top 6 would easily get a game at other teams
PA outs last night...
Monfries
Ryder
Trengove
Carlisle
Whingard
Gray
Lobe
Maybe Schultz

Our outs last night...
Rance
Grimes
Maybe Conca KMac

Can't include Yarran...he's never played for us so we can't miss him

 

[Pasquali]

Losing to bottom 8 sides is what hurts the most... everyone grab the lube and hang for dear life as we still play Sawns. .hawks... bulldogs. .. cats.. GWS... we are going to cop some real poundings...

 

[tigs2010]

If a rebuild is on the cards, Richmond should think about putting Deledio up for trade imo. He's 29 so not going to be around for the next tilt and he'd still just about get you into the top 10.

We couldnt trade him to a bottom 10 team though. Would have to give the guy a chance to contend.

 

[blaisee]

Coaching is one thing but the appointment of football department staff is another

There is clearly a lack of ideas in the whole dep.

There is clearly a lack an understanding of where we are at as well

Three years of poor starts and disgraceful ends of the season has not managed to wake us up to our very obvious needs.

A proper ruckmnan and some midfield depth , while we add b grade hacks the good clubs continue to completely outperform us on the free agency table .

This needs to be acknowledged and we need to see some action . The people we have in these positions currently are tying hard but can't get the job done .

Until this is addressed we have no chance .

 

[Schraderbrau]

We couldnt trade him to a bottom 10 team though. Would have to give the guy a chance to contend.

I would have thought GWS would be very keen and they've got picks coming out of their ears.