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Opinion What if Brisbane win the premiership AND get the number one draft pick this year?
- Thread starter GC2015
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- #27
True but theoretically any club can do this. Let's say Will Ashcroft didn't nominate Brisbane and for some reason Nick Daicos suddenly decides he wants to join West Coast this off season, the Eagles would trade their first pick for Daicos and Collingwood may very well have just won the premiership...
The point in the OP was more so that Brisbane, who may be the premiers in two months from now, haven't given up anything and will still get the number 1 pick this year if Ashcroft gets bid on by the Eagles/Roos.
- Apr 24, 2022
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i think a more fruitful discussion could be had if you framed the father son rule in general terms rather than focusing on brisbane. its not really in the clubs power to control when an ex-players kid will be a gun, what year they will be available and what position the club is in at the time which seems to be the gripe raised in this thread. brisbane has not historically been a significant winner from the rules existence - only notable player being Brown, who would not even be available under the rules current iteration.
the way this is framed it just seems like an undertone of sour grapes which i know some gc fans have because ashcroft spent time in their academy and feel like they were a bit robbed
- Jun 5, 2004
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I understood your point.
Just correcting you that the premiers have had the number 1 pick before.
LukeParkerno1
Post-Human
You do realise that Ablett when he was drafted was thought as only getting a gig due to his last name right, was a speculative pick. Turned out to be one the greatest that’s played the game but at the time many thought the Cats overpaid.
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- #31
That's essentially what the post was, hence the reason the Sam Darcy example was brought up. We've never seen a team win a premiership AND have the best junior in the land come through as a father-son pick at the same time and this year may very well be the first time. We know the main reason the national draft exists is that it serves as an equalisation tool but that system completely falls apart when a highly rated father-son prospect comes through.
We saw the AFL change the rules for next generation academy access when complaints came through after the Jamarra Ugle-Hagan situation landed the Dogs the number 1 pick when they had qualified for the finals just weeks prior. If that had not happened, then Melbourne would have won the flag and landed a top 5 pick in Mac Andrew last year but the change of rules prevented that. We also saw GWS's northern academy access was wound back in 2017 when they were regularly securing first round picks and that prevented them from getting other prospects like Jarrod Brander (pick 13) Charlie Spargo (pick 29), Jacob Koschitzke (pick 52) etc. Now I understand the romantic element that comes with the father-son rule but at the end of the day it's the same outcome from an equalisation standpoint and we've seen the AFL's willingness to adjust the academy rules when they've been deemed to be going too far.
So perhaps the question should be: At what point, if any, should father-son access be restricted in the similar way to the academies?
- Dec 9, 2015
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True, he was no N Daicos
Only 17 though, have to be 18 these days, another year at the Falcons might have theoretically lifted his stocks
Bucking Beads
Brownlow Medallist
Lets face it. The Lions will be flat out winning a final let alone the premiership
I think Gold Coast of all clubs should not throw stones when it comes to things that compromise the draft....
Implying we're even gonna make top 4.
I don't understand this logic. Either we should have it or we shouldn't. This sort of halfway house is essentially saying "you can play for your dad's team if you're not that good".
LukeParkerno1
Post-Human
Maybe, but doubtful as he was basically a forward until a while into the Cats system. If there is any Cats one to be annoyed at it's Hawkins as it allowed them to get Selwood at pick 7 too. They weren't the only club though.
- Sep 6, 2011
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Hawks had the number 1 pick in 1988 after winning a flag.
Hawks traded 3 players to St Kilda for it
The Hawthorn Football Club received the first pick in the national draft, after receiving it from St Kilda in the first ever trade involving draft picks, in return for Paul Harding, Peter Russo and Robert Handley.[2]
Hawks traded 3 players to St Kilda for it
The Hawthorn Football Club received the first pick in the national draft, after receiving it from St Kilda in the first ever trade involving draft picks, in return for Paul Harding, Peter Russo and Robert Handley.[2]
LukeParkerno1
Post-Human
Exactly, if you want to whinge Ablett isn't the one, he was a speculative pick at best
But unlike the previous method, the clubs now pay market price in points minus 20%. It’s not Perfect but it’s pretty fair. North can pick him and if so it will cost Brisbane basically most of their picks In points.
- Oct 11, 2012
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If you had that rule kids would start under performing to ensure they slipped out of the top 10 meaning gun kids wouldn't be fully paid for.
Nick Daicos pick 4 minus 20% discount - that's fair?
Dogs, twice blessed in consecutive drafts with what should have been number 1 picks and got a 20% discount!
Being able to match a bid should be the incentive, not that plus a 20% discount, that's the rort!
Sydney gave up their other priority pick to Essendon for Ed Consindine and Michael Werner as well.
Sydneys trading and drafting that year is probably the worst ever Single season by a club.
They started with 2 priority picks and nominal pick 1. So they traded away picks 1, 3, 20, 65 and 80 and ended up with Jayson Daniels for 2 years, before they traded him backs to St Kilda, and walters for about 30 games over 2 years. Even worse pick 5 was used picking Brett Spinks who didn’t play a game.
Sydney also drafted Andrew Donnelly with pick 50, didn’t give him a game over 2 seasons then delisted him. Not a gun but played 70 odd games for WCE after they drafted for nothing in 1995 pre season draft.
- Sep 4, 2018
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Don't really see a problem with the F/S rule in the same way I don't see a problem with Academy rules.
Outside people tend to forget that Brisbane has a father son program, Ashcroft has been a part of this program for many years. It's not like the club would be getting him for free, as they have to match a bid on him with draft points, or the club has put no effort in the development of Ashcroft.
As a result, I don't see any difference between Ashcroft or Hipwood. Both are players that are either a F/S or Academy player, both players have been developed in some way by Brisbane, both players will have any bid on them matched in the first round.
Now I know the rules were changed for NGA's, but if you didn't have a problem with the rules before the change, you shouldn't have a problem with the current F/S rules under this circumstance, regardless of Brisbane's ladder result.
That being said, I have no doubt the VFL could cull the F/S rule because of this draft as a result of Brisbane having access to both Ashcroft (pick 1-5) and potentially Fletcher (pick 15-30). They tend to go scorched earth when an AFL club gets a leg up somehow.
Brisbane will not win the premiership this year, but it will be interesting to see if they implement another "Jamarra" rule as a result of the draft.
Outside people tend to forget that Brisbane has a father son program, Ashcroft has been a part of this program for many years. It's not like the club would be getting him for free, as they have to match a bid on him with draft points, or the club has put no effort in the development of Ashcroft.
As a result, I don't see any difference between Ashcroft or Hipwood. Both are players that are either a F/S or Academy player, both players have been developed in some way by Brisbane, both players will have any bid on them matched in the first round.
Now I know the rules were changed for NGA's, but if you didn't have a problem with the rules before the change, you shouldn't have a problem with the current F/S rules under this circumstance, regardless of Brisbane's ladder result.
That being said, I have no doubt the VFL could cull the F/S rule because of this draft as a result of Brisbane having access to both Ashcroft (pick 1-5) and potentially Fletcher (pick 15-30). They tend to go scorched earth when an AFL club gets a leg up somehow.
Brisbane will not win the premiership this year, but it will be interesting to see if they implement another "Jamarra" rule as a result of the draft.
Yep, that would be a terrible outcome and lead to famous kids taking the foot off the pedal so they can get drafted to their Dad's team. It's all or nothing with F/S and I think they need to keep it.
GC & GWS going through a flat bit now with that rule but they also had a lot of concessions themselves and were protected from free agency for their first 8 seasons.
Interstate teams got shafted when they could include massive amounts of WAFL/SAFL games or 100 AFL games but not combinations of both. Took out a decade of potential ones & just annoyed fans I think as it didn't pass the pub test.
Red Black and Blue
Brownlow Medallist
IMO All academies and father sons should be abolished.
The sentimental stuff is nice and all but it’s completely screwed the fairness of the draft. If a father son gets drafted elsewhere and wants to play for his fathers club, he can do so in a trade.
The free agency and trade mechanism already benefits the big and successful clubs, now they are consistently acquiring the top of the table young talent. It’s stacking the weight against teams at the bottom of the ladder.
The sentimental stuff is nice and all but it’s completely screwed the fairness of the draft. If a father son gets drafted elsewhere and wants to play for his fathers club, he can do so in a trade.
The free agency and trade mechanism already benefits the big and successful clubs, now they are consistently acquiring the top of the table young talent. It’s stacking the weight against teams at the bottom of the ladder.
- Feb 13, 2011
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If Brisbane win the premiership they have to give up all their draft picks and still trade for a pick in the 20's. its not nothing.
raskolnikov
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Good on them I'd say. It's about time a non-Victorian team got an advantage.
Bucking Beads
Brownlow Medallist
Ridiculous and made even sillier with it coming from a fan of a club that has benefited plenty from the father/son rule to begin with.
To be fair i bet Jobe Watson was wishing that the f/s had been abolished and he never ended up in Essendon. Surprised to see an Essnedon fan advocating for never having the ability to draft Dustin Fletcher, Jobe, and Joe Daniher amongst others.
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