What is going on at GWS? An 'aggressive reset' or something more smelly?

[dave123]

And labelling everything as rubbish and sooking about anything not pro-Giants like one GWS supporter is doing isn’t childish?


GWS have a great top level to their list but the depth is now being seriously tested. And the real contenders tend to have great depth. They will no doubt draft well with the picks they have and will win their fair share of games on talent but in my opinion the league’s goal of them winning a flag with what was a super list has fallen short.

It’s going to get harder for them now.

I’m not feigning concern either. That’s just how I see it

If they are going to be so good still as in 2019

How come they didn’t go further this year with the talent they had

How can you lose Kelly Shiel settlefield scully and lobb Nd expect to perform better

You can’t lose talent they have this year and expect to perform than they did this year ....that’s impossible

 

[fishardansin]

And labelling everything as rubbish and sooking about anything not pro-Giants like one GWS supporter is doing isn’t childish?


GWS have a great top level to their list but the depth is now being seriously tested. And the real contenders tend to have great depth. They will no doubt draft well with the picks they have and will win their fair share of games on talent but in my opinion the league’s goal of them winning a flag with what was a super list has fallen short.

It’s going to get harder for them now.

I’m not feigning concern either. That’s just how I see it

Yeah, long term they are going to have to make decisions. You can't have too many top end talents without them playing for less than 80% of their market value. If they can't convince them to do that they are going to have to be strategic about getting a batch of solid foot soldiers. I still think that they will be trading out a star player every year to be able to get a top 10 pick in each year while they are still in and around the top 4.

 

[dave123]

Let’s be totally honest the AFL WANTS GWS and GOLD COAST to win flags

Yup nothing grows the game more than a premiership

They would be rather nervous if these two clubs spend time struggling again ....they would simply slide into irrelevancy if they don’t win a flag

Right now can’t see gws winning a flag ...gcs ...err hmmm nada

 

[BPikkers]

You need help mate

If you that defensive about a footy forum post you seriously are way too into this



Back ended deals eventual bight you on the backside if you have too many on those type of deals

Totally agree....particularly with the first part.

 

[Obeanie1]

Let’s be totally honest the AFL WANTS GWS and GOLD COAST to win flags

Yup nothing grows the game more than a premiership

They would be rather nervous if these two clubs spend time struggling again ....they would simply slide into irrelevancy if they don’t win a flag

Right now can’t see gws winning a flag ...gcs ...err hmmm nada

Gold Coast should do a sort of merge joint venture with the NT.

Northern Suns or some such.

Actually get some mojo and brotherhood going. Play half their home games in the NT and get zoning rights.

 

[Giant Strides]

Their list build was unsustainable. They didn't do anything wrong, it just wasn't always going to work forever. What they are doing now is starting to get back to a list that looks far more like every other team in the comp.

They'll have veteran leaders - Davis, Ward, Shaw, Deledio
Big money stars in their prime - Kelly, Coniglio, Whitfield, Cameron, Greene, Haynes, Williams
Players on the rise - Taranto, Hopper, Himmelberg
Young talented draft picks (and more coming) - Bonar, Daniels, Taylor, Perryman, Cumming
Role players - Buntine, Kennedy, Tomlinson, De Boer, Langford, Corr, Reid

Developmental prospects - Shipley, Flynn etc
And they'll have some list cloggers or fillers types like every other team!

There's still more than enough talent to win a flag there.

I'd say this is probably the most intelligent analysis in this thread. Many other contributions have too much hyperbole or biased perspective.

 

[Spiritof82]

Jason McCartney.

Hi the nail on the head, a second rate footballer who's even a worse player manager, glad we got rid of him.

 

[drama5]

Their list build was unsustainable. They didn't do anything wrong, it just wasn't always going to work forever.

You bring in young players on huge money - Scully, Ward, Davis etc
Then you add an amazing class of 17 year old preselections and about 4 super draft hands in a row
Then you get every other team and particularly the Victorian teams chasing young players on big money - you keep some, trade some out
Then you're close enough to a flag that you bring in Mumford, Shaw, Deledio, Griffen etc
Then you add more draft picks who go through the same cycle of getting big money offers in their early years

It's always going to lead to a situation where you have to strain the salary cap and move money around to fit it in.

What they are doing now is starting to get back to a list that looks far more like every other team in the comp.

They'll have veteran leaders - Davis, Ward, Shaw, Deledio
Big money stars in their prime - Kelly, Coniglio, Whitfield, Cameron, Greene, Haynes, Williams
Players on the rise - Taranto, Hopper, Himmelberg
Young talented draft picks (and more coming) - Bonar, Daniels, Taylor, Perryman, Cumming
Role players - Buntine, Kennedy, Tomlinson, De Boer, Langford, Corr, Reid

Developmental prospects - Shipley, Flynn etc
And they'll have some list cloggers or fillers types like every other team!

There's still more than enough talent to win a flag there. If you look at Richmond shedding all their depth it shows how hard it is to keep more than 25 or so good players. The top guys just eat up the salary cap. Collingwood might have the most depth in the league and would probably trade some of it for cap relief if they could! No other team has more than 25 good players in my opinion. Eagles grand final emergencies weren't a great list of names.

If I were a Giants fan I'd be concerned there's not really an obvious answer for the ruck problems. Dawson has looked good but not sustained it. I'd also be worried that we're trading out Shiel, Scully etc and there's no guarantee of Kelly staying. If Kelly leaves next year then you've corrected your salary cap only to end up losing too much talent. They'd almost have to try to replace Kelly with mature player(s) to keep things on track.

well said mate

thats exactly what it appears is going on. unfortunately the victorian media seems hell bent on trash talking the new franchises and refuses to let the club try and create its own grounding in afl.

the fact that all these other clubs are offering these player big contracts then is it really a surprise to people that gws are having trouble keeping them. all they are doing is trying to spread the talent and establish a more balanced list that isnt stockpiled with superstars all around the same age!

give them a chance guys and please people stop looking to bring both them and gc down whenever possible

 

[AFDogs]

If they are going to be so good still as in 2019

How come they didn’t go further this year with the talent they had

They flogged Sydney and ran into a rampant Collingwood. I don't think they would have gotten past Richmond anyway but there finals series wasn't a massive failure.

 

[Rod Stroker]

So you think losing lobb and getting Mumford is a win

Please don’t tell that’s a good move

What heights has Lobb achieved? He's a pretty average player.
At least Mummy has presence, was a pretty good ruckman, and has won a flag, although I realise it was a few years ago.
Plus Lobb wants to go home, so it's not easy for GWS to retain a player who doesn't want to be there.

 

[dave123]

What heights has Lobb achieved? He's a pretty average player.
At least Mummy has presence, was a pretty good ruckman, and has won a flag, although I realise it was a few years ago.
Plus Lobb wants to go home, so it's not easy for GWS to retain a player who doesn't want to be there.

Rory was not used very well.

He needed to tuck more and rest forward..I keep saying 200cm forwards dont do very well in the modern game...

192-196 cm is the perfect height. When you look at history it will tell you who was perfect height.

 

[dave123]

They flogged Sydney and ran into a rampant Collingwood. I don't think they would have gotten past Richmond anyway but there finals series wasn't a massive failure.

My point is this...if they could not succeed this finals series
How in the hell are they going to succeed minus all the players they've lost this trade. You can't lose Talent and get better full stop draught picks sure but those kids need development they won't come in and have an impact from the first game it simply doesn't work like that. Looking at the quality they have lost will also have a massive impact on them yes they've got enough Talent to probably make the 8 and be a nuisance to finals teams but they won't be in premiership contention next season.

 

[master bate]

My point is this...if they could not succeed this finals series
How in the hell are they going to succeed minus all the players they've lost this trade. You can't lose Talent and get better full stop draught picks sure but those kids need development they won't come in and have an impact from the first game it simply doesn't work like that. Looking at the quality they have lost will also have a massive impact on them yes they've got enough Talent to probably make the 8 and be a nuisance to finals teams but they won't be in premiership contention next season.

The same way the Eagles lost Mitchell and Priddis and got significantly better, then lost Nic Nat, Gaff and Schofield and still won the flag. What odds would you have taken of that happening this time last year?

Lobb is a great talent. But they have Cameron and Himmelberg as a very nice modern day key forward pairing. And if Dawson Simpson gets a good run at it he's a better ruckman than Lobb is.

Scully missed the whole year. No difference there. Finlayson not a huge loss either.

Shiel can be covered because he's their 4th best inside mid after Kelly/Coniglio and Ward and they have Hopper and Taranto waiting in the wings. In fact those 2 big bulls on ball might give them more grunt. Ward could then move forward and provide a different look there.

If their genuine elite players - Greene, Davis, Cameron, Kelly, Coniglio, Williams, Ward, Whitfield, Haynes all play 18 games they're pretty much guaranteed to win 12 games and playing finals. Greene - horrid year. Kelly - missed the finals. Williams - pretty much missed all year. Cameron - wasn't the same after suspension. Davis - got belted around during the year. There's improvement from their very best players!

If their role players in the forward and backlines do their job like De Boer, Reid, Buntine, Kennedy that's probably 14 wins. If they find a couple of players who step up from nowhere then it's top 4. Eagles had Rioli and Ryan, no reason the Giants couldn't find a couple like that. Bonar is one guy to watch closely, missed years of junior footy and showed a bit last year, he could be anything in year 2.

 

[Orange Agent]

Everyone said we would fall away this year, ended up losing to Pies by 10 points. The running tsunami game plan is dead and buried, we started copying WCE short chip kicking game middle of the season, Shiel and Scully are not needed for it. A good run with injuries and the best 22 is good enough.

 

[dave123]

The same way the Eagles lost Mitchell and Priddis and got significantly better, then lost Nic Nat, Gaff and Schofield and still won the flag. What odds would you have taken of that happening this time last year?

Lobb is a great talent. But they have Cameron and Himmelberg as a very nice modern day key forward pairing. And if Dawson Simpson gets a good run at it he's a better ruckman than Lobb is.

Scully missed the whole year. No difference there. Finlayson not a huge loss either.

Shiel can be covered because he's their 4th best inside mid after Kelly/Coniglio and Ward and they have Hopper and Taranto waiting in the wings. In fact those 2 big bulls on ball might give them more grunt. Ward could then move forward and provide a different look there.

If their genuine elite players - Greene, Davis, Cameron, Kelly, Coniglio, Williams, Ward, Whitfield, Haynes all play 18 games they're pretty much guaranteed to win 12 games and playing finals. Greene - horrid year. Kelly - missed the finals. Williams - pretty much missed all year. Cameron - wasn't the same after suspension. Davis - got belted around during the year. There's improvement from their very best players!

If their role players in the forward and backlines do their job like De Boer, Reid, Buntine, Kennedy that's probably 14 wins. If they find a couple of players who step up from nowhere then it's top 4. Eagles had Rioli and Ryan, no reason the Giants couldn't find a couple like that. Bonar is one guy to watch closely, missed years of junior footy and showed a bit last year, he could be anything in year 2.

We have depth ...not sure gws have the same depth

I think gws will win 12-13 maybe but can’t seem them getting better after losing great players

Gws will be ok but I can’t see them winning the flag anytime soon

 

[PP34]

Big contracts finally biting them on the arse.

When you have so many talented players on that list you cannot keep them all.

Being young they want to get paid too. From what I heard blokes like Greene, Ward etc are all on big coin. Then you’ve got blokes like Shiel and Scully departing who were also on decent coin. I understand why you’d let them go. Much rather lose them and go all out on keeping Kelly, Coniglio, Whitfield etc who are younger and better players.

If they don’t win a flag over the next few years with this list they are going to seriously rue that 2016 prelim loss. That may have been their big chance.

The draft picks they get for Shiel etc might come in handy too. They’ve drafted some fairly handy players with picks they got in trades, so things may work out well if they do that again. They’ll have Kelly, Greene etc all in their primes and some youngsters playing on small contracts. That also creates the possibility of them going in circles though which they sort of already seem to be doing.

 

[col44]

Don't forget Mummy was meant to play in 2018 until a premature end. 2018, GWS injury list was the worst I've ever seen and they finished a win outside top 4.
Easily the best on paper team in the comp.

Now it'll take some soul searching, bonding, growth, momentum and luck to be back. But rest assured no matter who they trade out this year they could well be 2019 premiers if they get shit right.

 

[north_lad]

Rory was not used very well.

He needed to tuck more and rest forward..I keep saying 200cm forwards dont do very well in the modern game...

192-196 cm is the perfect height. When you look at history it will tell you who was perfect height.

Hmm yeah Lance Franklin and Ben Brown - too tall

 

[Giant Pete]

This is the part I think people aren't looking at in enough detail. For me the depth isn't really there at all anymore (at least nowhere near the quality it was) as other teams have pilfered most of the good young talent coming through. Look at the Neafl ladder and Giants results (remembering the NEAFL is not a strong comp):

2014 – Minor premiers. 15 wins out of 18 - 184%
2015 – Minor premiers. 16 wins out of 18 - 213%
2016 – Finished second. 12 wins out of 18 – 144%
2017 – Finished last. 2 wins out of 18 - 63%
2018 - Finished 7th. 8 wins out of 18 - 92%

GWS will still have a very very good best 22 next year (even after the current exodus). But there current depth is actually pretty garbage.

The scary talent phase is just coming to its natural end. Now they (like pretty much every other team) will only have a bunch of average role players or untried kids outside of the 22.

GWS will have to just get used to being like the rest of us!

This an ill-informed post. We had the worst injury list in the afl over the last 2 years. That is why we finished so low in the neafl.

 

[Flags_In_The_Bag]

You can only get it by playing for the Pies or Bombers. Roughhead may win it next year!
The Bont the year after......haha

Joke as much at my response as you like. Putting it up there as a great achievement still means heaps of laughter.

 

[BPikkers]

Joke as much at my response as you like. Putting it up there as a great achievement still means heaps of laughter.

It is a great achievement. Biggest game in the H&A season calls for the best big game players to win it. Guys like Hird, Swan, Shaw, Pendlebury, Daniher, Sidebottom have all won it. Because your team doesn’t get to play in front of big crowds doesn’t mean you need to disrespect it. I’m sure Bont would love to play in front of a big crowd.

 

[mouncey2franklin]

And now Scully walks out the door for a future fourth-rounder?

What the hell is going on up there?

 

[GreyCrow]

 

[tigers_of_old_08]

If Hawthorn can get Scully’s ankle right, wow what a steal.

 

[living_in_syd]

They lost the plot

Even with the injury thing, scully is still worth a second rounder.

Who negotiating for gws? Lol