WSYD What needs to happen for WS to work

[The Filth Wizard]

Worst argument ever.

Or do you still watch your 23cm CRT TV, use your VCR and listen to music on your 8 track?

No, but my plasma tv is in repairs for the third time in two years.

Depends if you think that the new team will take a slice of their pie. The Gold Coast almost certainly won't, and it's well and truly arguable that most of West Sydney's fanbase is not going to come from the Swans, with the exception of a few people thast attend the odd game at Homebush.

I do think.

But my point is there won't be a strong enough fanbase in the first base to warrant their existence. Or enough supporter money to make them viable.

And why are so many people under the impression Blacktown is that far from the CBD? It is only four kilometres further from central Sydney as Dandenong is from central Melbourne.

It's like, freakin' Doveton.


Which is similar for the AFL in Melbourne, with 3 teams needing huge handouts every year just to stay solvent.
Says more about the gross overrepresentation of teams located in each respective city more than anything else.

Precisely. But take Penrith for example... no immediate competition for survival. They are distanced much further out then WS will be based. They have one of the most successful leagues clubs in the state yet still, they are on the ropes.

How is this a point to support West Sydney's induction?

 

[Rob]

No, but my plasma tv is in repairs for the third time in two years.

You've either completely missed the point, or you're being deliberately obtuse.

I do think.

But my point is there won't be a strong enough fanbase in the first base to warrant their existence. Or enough supporter money to make them viable.

OK, fair enough. I'd say the AFL disagrees with you.

And why are so many people under the impression Blacktown is that far from the CBD? It is only four kilometres further from central Sydney as Dandenong is from central Melbourne.

It's like, freakin' Doveton.

WTF? Dandenong is miles out.

But in any case, Sydney is not a geographically similar city to Melbourne. Melbourne, despite a lot of the population based in the south east, is still very central in that there is a central hub with transport links all leading to it. Sydney is not like that. the CBD is based on the fringe of the city, with very poor transport links from the Western suburbs to it. So you get decent sized satellite commercial centres popping up, like in Parramatta where a lot of people work. People are a lot less likely to travel from the Western Suburbs of Sydney to the CBD than they are from any part of Melbourne to the CBD.

Precisely. But take Penrith for example... no immediate competition for survival. They are distanced much further out then WS will be based. They have one of the most successful leagues clubs in the state yet still, they are on the ropes.

How is this a point to support West Sydney's induction?

It's not, but it's sure as hell not relevant in arguing against it as you are claiming.

 

[RUNVS]

Frankly, I don't think the death of NRL clubs will benefit the AFL at all.

It will. Super League helped the Swans as suddenly people's NRL teams died and they switched codes of football and started following the Swans. The best thing that could happen to the Western Sydney AFL team is for 2 or 3 NRL teams to die between 2012 and 2014.

And certainly you may be right about the stadium affecting the Swans financial year and membership numbers.

The SCG looked like a 2nd rate stadium during construction of the stand.

 

[gostk86]

2 sydney clubs will most likely relocate Runvs...but wont be in the west

sharks and roosters are under the pressure

 

[RUNVS]

2 sydney clubs will most likely relocate Runvs...but wont be in the west

sharks and roosters are under the pressure

If it doesnt help the West Sydney team then it will help the Swans (depending on which teams fold) so it is all good. The more Swans fans the better.

 

[gostk86]

If it doesnt help the West Sydney team then it will help the Swans (depending on which teams fold) so it is all good. The more Swans fans the better.

swans own the eastern suburbs so there is no loss for RL there

sharks fans would be interesting..most likely to union

 

[RUNVS]

swans own the eastern suburbs so there is no loss for RL there

sharks fans would be interesting..most likely to union

Obviously alot of fans of these NRL clubs wont switch over but some will. This financial crisis will kill afew NRL clubs and hopefully a Melbourne AFL club or two.

 

[gostk86]

Obviously alot of fans of these NRL clubs wont switch over but some will. This financial crisis will kill afew NRL clubs and hopefully a Melbourne AFL club or two.

no doubt..

be good for both sports

 

[RUNVS]

no doubt..

be good for both sports

10 NRL teams in New South Wales is too many and 10 AFL teams in Victoria is too many.

Both codes need to cut/relocate/merge teams so they have only 7 teams in their respective cities.

 

[gostk86]

10 NRL teams in New South Wales is too many and 10 AFL teams in Victoria is too many.

Both codes need to cut/relocate/merge teams so they have only 7 teams in their respective cities.

agree..but i would say rl fans are more easily pissed and more likely to not follow the game than afl fans

which shits me

all the west league teams must stay..but the roosters and sharks are ones that need to go...also wouldnt be surprised if the Bears come back as Central Coast then the Eagles might goto sunshine coast in future

 

[RUNVS]

agree..but i would say rl fans are more easily pissed and more likely to not follow the game than afl fans

which shits me

all the west league teams must stay..but the roosters and sharks are ones that need to go...also wouldnt be surprised if the Bears come back as Central Coast then the Eagles might goto sunshine coast in future

Generally relocation is the best answer. There are still many South Melbourne fans who support the Swans even though the Swans relocated to Sydney over a quarter of a century ago.

Merger is also a acceptable option as it also means that there is a good chance you can keep most of the fans.

Death of a club is the last option and is the worst option. However if it becomes necessary i would rather see afew Melbourne based AFL clubs die than continue on hurting the future of the competition.

 

[gostk86]

Generally relocation is the best answer. There are still many South Melbourne fans who support the Swans even though the Swans relocated to Sydney over a quarter of a century ago.

Merger is also a acceptable option as it also means that there is a good chance you can keep most of the fans.

Death of a club is the last option and is the worst option. However if it becomes necessary i would rather see afew Melbourne based AFL clubs die than continue on hurting the future of the competition.

yeh agree

back to this thread

and its a crazy idea..but so not to alienate fans of the other codes..because of arrogance (media driven or not) they should do a buddy system with a nfl club and even future soccer team to joint memberships etc

 

[ChrisFooty]

A Western Sydney AFL team would struggle in an economic boom, let alone an economic slowdown, that could easily turn into a recession. It's common fact that NSW has been in recession for a number of months now.

The economy might improve by 2011, but that still does not matter. There is not enough support for a second AFL side. The Sydney Swans are finding it tough as it is, just trying to stay strong.

2025. Then that is still far too early, although a lot more realistic.

 

[Helix]

A Western Sydney AFL team would struggle in an economic boom, let alone an economic slowdown, that could easily turn into a recession. It's common fact that NSW has been in recession for a number of months now.

The economy might improve by 2011, but that still does not matter. There is not enough support for a second AFL side. The Sydney Swans are finding it tough as it is, just trying to stay strong.

2025. Then that is still far too early, although a lot more realistic.

You said the same about a Gold Coast team, and you were wrong about that too.

 

[CooperCronk]

I think that's more of a rugby league thing. Even State of origin, which is supposed to be the biggest sporting event in their calendar, struggles to sell out the stadium.

Always close to a sellout, even the last few years in these hard economic times. Q''landers who seem to be a little more passionate always sell out their stadium, albeit being smaller in size.

They're just not that passionate about sport there. In saying that, when you're looking at a population base of about 2 million people, you don't need many following you to be a success.

I think you will find there are more than 2m. people based in the Sydney area and most of them follow rugby league, many in leagues clubs or in their armchairs unfortunately.

 

[Pie eyed]

You said the same about a Gold Coast team, and you were wrong about that too.

I think it's a bit premature to start claiming GC17 is a success yet.
Sydney struggled for 20 years with all the AFL could put into it, a massive market and a self destructing ARL/NRL doing everything it could to drive their supporters and sponsors away.
On top of that GC17 are going to be in the same boat as Freo as a second team.

 

[CooperCronk]

They seem to prefer representative sport over club based sport; a major difference with all of the other capital cities. As examples, a win by NSW in the state of origin frequently means more to fans whose NRL club wins the premiership.

That's not true, one great thing about rugby league, is that their players love playing for their state and for their country unlike many afl players.

I would say if you asked rugby league players what matters to them most, they would say winning a premiership with their club and mates...no doubt about that all.

Same would apply to supporters also....they love watching Rep footy as well though.

 

[Helix]

I think it's a bit premature to start claiming GC17 is a success yet.
Sydney struggled for 20 years with all the AFL could put into it, a massive market and a self destructing ARL/NRL doing everything it could to drive their supporters and sponsors away.
On top of that GC17 are going to be in the same boat as Freo as a second team.

I didnt say success, i said that they will exist. The rest, who knows.

 

[Pie eyed]

I didnt say success, i said that they will exist. The rest, who knows.

Fair enough.
GC17 were launched at a time when the world's financial guru's and Governments was busy patting themselves on the back economically though, now strangely it is not their fault. Go figure.

WS18 may be a bit more closely considered now.

Just for the record I am not against a WS18 side.

 

[Linda Crescent]

I’ve just read this entire thread, I reckon there are many sensible things the AFL can do to make a second team in Sydney work and some points raised in this discussion are super valid particularly ‘a home grown team’.

'Helix' I reckon your posts are close to spot on too.

Here’s a suggestion from me – don’t play night games in Western Sydney. It’s frigid out there in winter …and I’ve spent many afternoons and evenings watching Hawthorn play footy at Waverley Park.

PS: There is going to be a Western Sydney Club, I just hope the colours aren't royal blue and white.

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

Why is it the common perception that the AFL have not "ran the figures" here, and are a bunch of stubborn old men who can't see the obvious catastrophic result of expansion? Do you all honestly think you know the situation better, given you don't have access to any of the data that has no doubt been collected?

These are the same people who told us a GC stadium deal is 'weeks away' well over a year ago.

The evidence shows that on expansion, they are not to be trusted and to be considered incompetent as the default position.

 

[Pie eyed]

That's not true, one great thing about rugby league, is that their players love playing for their state and for their country unlike many afl players.

I would say if you asked rugby league players what matters to them most, they would say winning a premiership with their club and mates...no doubt about that all.

Same would apply to supporters also....they love watching Rep footy as well though.

AFL play virtual State games dozens of times a year. I know it is different but the two codes are so different. You can only have NSW v Qld who have to play three games to make it worthwile.
If the AFL were to do it properly you have QLD, NSW, NT, SA, WA VIC and then add the Allies made up of ACT and Tassie. It's a competition in its own right. How do you shoehorn any kind of meaningful SoO draw this large into a 22 round season?

Ergo one offs and the occassional round robin affair = little real interest.

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

You said the same about a Gold Coast team, and you were wrong about that too.

Um, as far as I am aware, the AFL is still yet to give thye official go ahead for GC, despite a number of deadlines passing.

I think it will, but this indicates it is as sunny up there as many would have us believe.

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

PS: There is going to be a Western Sydney Club, I just hope the colours aren't royal blue and white.

I think the mob in red, blue and white might be more in the gun.

 

[Pie eyed]

These are the same people who told us a GC stadium deal is 'weeks away' well over a year ago.

The evidence shows that on expansion, they are not to be trusted and to be considered incompetent as the default position.

I would not say incompetent. If it were that easy to make a national sporting team successful why have Soccer, Basketball, ARU, ARL and AFL et al had so much difficulty?
I would suggest it is not as easy as it appears and quite rightly anyone making an attempt is hardly going to talk their chances of success down now are they?

Any team in any code needs everything going for it they can get.