WSYD What needs to happen for WS to work

[Helix]

Declaring the Gold Coast expansion team a success already?

Still can't read?

 

[Pie eyed]

yes, it is best to keep believing that those scoundrels and evil people from the south are trying to brainwash the poor innocent victims of queensland into liking Australia's own code of football.

what an outrage!

what about those private schools in brisbane who think they are still in the old country....playing rugby in the winter and cricket in the summer. Oh the old country.. oh to dream of the green, green grass of england, hey?

Thank you.
This post will forever enable me to end the argument any time a Carlton supporter ever questions the intellect of any other clubs.
Many of your earlier posts raised my hopes but this one has fulfilled them........
Yours,
Laughing Damned Hard .

 

[Pie eyed]

You might play games interstate, but its nothing like having a SOO series where players represent their State. I live in Vic. and often hear people screaming for SOO to return to the afl.

Also the afl season is shorter than the nrl season, I am sure the afl could manage to squeeze in a SOO series somewhere even if its held every 2-4 years or so.

NRL players also have Rep games as well to contend with, so its more gruelling on their bodies, but they really embrace it.

The afl is missing out big time in not having a SOO Series IMO

Firstly...

WTF are you shouting for?....Are you ****ing deaf?

It's not a phone for christs sake.

Secondly, AFL SoO requires players to have actually have been born in the State and most definitely the country they represent. That means only 22 could play for Victoria. There would easily be 22 from NSW, WA and SA.
Qld, NT and the Allies would have to boost the side with players from local leagues, making for an even truer State of Origin side.

Thirdly, the AFL play a pre-season competition and has only 1 bye (at the moment) which is in reality a split round. Just because the AFL isa big organisation with heaps of money does not mean it can make years, months or weeks any longer than they are. If you are so sure the AFL can manage to squeeze in any kind of meaningful SoO series how about you give us a look at your proposed calender, of course allowing for the NAB Cup and regular Premiership season

Fourthly,(I know that's not correct grammar but is in keeping with the posts in this thread), Rugby League players "embrace" SoO and Rep games as they raise the players stocks when looking to negotiate contract early in the next season with rival clubs, rival codes and overseas sides.

Fifthly, (see above) Cricket is right at the moment suffering the effects of over-playing the game in it's various guises. Too much is a bad thing in some cases.

 

[dunno4]

Don't be under any illusions West Sydney will be the biggest unmitigated disaster and the only good thing to come out of it will be the resultant change in the AFL administration.

Think about these points:

1/ I live in Sydney and where they are proposing to play the games is a good hours drive from the city. More from the North Shore and East where the bulk of AFL support is.

2/ The interest levels in sport in general, let alone AFL is minimal put where they are proposing to play.

3/ Hey anyone remember Western Suburbs Rugby League club?? Not even a league club survived out there.

4/ They could only get 19,000 to a FINAL at Homebush, and West Sydney will be a further half hour west!

5/ My kids play for East Sydney Bulldogs, when we travel to play Western Suburbs (which is only at Croyden Park half way to proposed West Sydney location) they are lucky to have 8 or 9 players for each junior team. Easts have to make up numbers.

6/ Has anybody been watching the recent riots out where this team is going to be? Unemployment is in double digits and rising, who is going to buy tickets? Who is going to buy memberships and merchandise?

7/ TV rights are not going to be worth what they were last time. This is supposedly the driver for the West Sydney team.

I feels sorry for Tasmania and Canberra, markets where people might actually go to games and teams might actually succeed.

The whole West Sydney thing is one mans folly and the game will be forever tarnished by it.

 

[walhawk]

Thanks for the local input dunno4.
However, games will be played at Homebush (Showgrounds + ANZ) not way out west in Rooty Hill where the training facility is under constrution.

Nevertheless, it sound like they are virtually starting from scratch.

What if the 18th team was the NSW Pioneers (for example)? Rather than focusing on the western suburbs, it would target the whole state - basically the anti-Swans?
Or even NSW/ACT Pioneers and played 6 games @ Showgrounds, 4 in Canberra and the 2 derbies V Sawns @ ANZ?
Too broad?

Now, the above may do some short-term damage to the Swans, but if WS works, long term the Swans must be better off.

 

[wikipediaAFLproject]

Don't be under any illusions West Sydney will be the biggest unmitigated disaster and the only good thing to come out of it will be the resultant change in the AFL administration.

Think about these points:

1/ I live in Sydney and where they are proposing to play the games is a good hours drive from the city. More from the North Shore and East where the bulk of AFL support is.

2/ The interest levels in sport in general, let alone AFL is minimal put where they are proposing to play.

3/ Hey anyone remember Western Suburbs Rugby League club?? Not even a league club survived out there.

4/ They could only get 19,000 to a FINAL at Homebush, and West Sydney will be a further half hour west!

5/ My kids play for East Sydney Bulldogs, when we travel to play Western Suburbs (which is only at Croyden Park half way to proposed West Sydney location) they are lucky to have 8 or 9 players for each junior team. Easts have to make up numbers.

6/ Has anybody been watching the recent riots out where this team is going to be? Unemployment is in double digits and rising, who is going to buy tickets? Who is going to buy memberships and merchandise?

7/ TV rights are not going to be worth what they were last time. This is supposedly the driver for the West Sydney team.

I feels sorry for Tasmania and Canberra, markets where people might actually go to games and teams might actually succeed.

The whole West Sydney thing is one mans folly and the game will be forever tarnished by it.

The support in the West today would have been similar to the support in the east 20 years ago???

The Western Sydney team should probably try and market itself towards the rest of NSW as well much like the Swans have done. When i was at school i was sick of everyone going for the Swans, so if someone didnt barrack for a team i used to give them a team other than the Swans to follow, and it worked quite well. Imagine how well it would work if the team was on tv regularly.

 

[dunno4]

Thanks for the local input dunno4.
However, games will be played at Homebush (Showgrounds + ANZ) not way out west in Rooty Hill where the training facility is under constrution.

Nevertheless, it sound like they are virtually starting from scratch.

What if the 18th team was the NSW Pioneers (for example)? Rather than focusing on the western suburbs, it would target the whole state - basically the anti-Swans?
Or even NSW/ACT Pioneers and played 6 games @ Showgrounds, 4 in Canberra and the 2 derbies V Sawns @ ANZ?
Too broad?

Now, the above may do some short-term damage to the Swans, but if WS works, long term the Swans must be better off.

I believe your thoughts on the "Pioneers" split between West Sydney and Canberra has more chance than the current proposal and shows more thought than anything from the current AFL administration.

Still I think it needs a few more years and a better financial environment to launch into. Several Sydney Rugby League clubs are in financial trouble, with players heading overseas to earn a living, so what hope for WSAFL?

I agree with some of the sentiment in some of the posts here that NSW should eventually have someone other than the Swans to support but restricting it to West Sydney is suicide.

 

[dunno4]

The support in the West today would have been similar to the support in the east 20 years ago???

The Western Sydney team should probably try and market itself towards the rest of NSW as well much like the Swans have done. When i was at school i was sick of everyone going for the Swans, so if someone didnt barrack for a team i used to give them a team other than the Swans to follow, and it worked quite well. Imagine how well it would work if the team was on tv regularly.

No I think it a lot less. At least the Swans had some support from South Melbourne supporters and could draw on all of the non-aligned AFL supporters in Sydney.

West Sydney will have no-one from an old club and will be trying to get some of the very few non Swans aligned AFL followers left in Sydney.

As history showed us the Swans went within days of bankruptcy and could not pay their players at one stage, do we really want a repeat of that??

 

[Ry009]

West Sydney will have no-one from an old club and will be trying to get some of the very few non Swans aligned AFL followers left in Sydney.

That's not to say a current Melbourne club may relocate.

However it seems some are getting a little ahead of themselves here, despite the name being registered with ASIC, it is far from being a done deal.

Much like the GC (which I will acknowledge is almost over the finishing line), nothing is completely set in stone regarding AFL expansion.

 

[Fire]

(Don't worry. I have noted the JUST KIDDING... )

For what it is worth, the Gold Coast and Townsville are Queensland's second and third largest cities (not including Logan, which is largely contiguous with Brisbane). What Victorians often fail to appreciate is thatQueensland is the only state with a greater outside the capital city within, hence the strength of regionalism (which is continually denigrated when raised on BigFooty).

You have a go at Victorian's ignorance by spewing forth some ignorant crap of your own.

Tasmania is a state that can claim the same population distribution.

If you are going to choose the most ignorant and outlandish claim by someone who happens to be a Victorian, then glorify it into being what you claim to be a typical opinion, at lease have the decency to not be hypocritical.

 

[Fire]

Declaring the Gold Coast expansion team a success already? What happens if the Gold Coast team produces several million dollar losses each year? Eddie is correct. The AFL should proceed with extreme precaution in its expansion in light of the current global financial crisis. At least wait until there is a little more economic certainty around.

The Gold Coast side has a higher probability of being viable than Western Sydney. That still is not anywhere near enough.

The AFL will take a hit in the next TV rights agreement, gates receipts and corporate dollars. Pumping several million dollars flogging a dead horse will not be easy with less cash flow luxuries.

You often state your predictions with an authoritarian tone with absolutely no background knowledge.

Have you ever got a prediction right?

And FWIW, everyone who is telling the AFL to take it easy for a year or two to wait until the economic future clears up... The GC isn’t meant to take the field until 2011. And WS later. Why shouldn’t the AFL spend money setting this club up when it won't be a full blown entity until after the current economic period, especially since the AFL already have the money to spend anyway?

 

[wikipediaAFLproject]

That's not to say a current Melbourne club may relocate.

However it seems some are getting a little ahead of themselves here, despite the name being registered with ASIC, it is far from being a done deal.

Much like the GC (which I will acknowledge is almost over the finishing line), nothing is completely set in stone regarding AFL expansion.

Western Sydney would work a lot better in the long run if it was not a relocated Melbourne Club. Purely because it gives Sydney siders something to own completely and create a larger sense of rivalry with the Melbourne Clubs.

I like the sound of Barassi' vision of 4 clubs in Sydney eventually.

 

[CooperCronk]

Firstly...

WTF are you shouting for?....Are you ****ing deaf?

It's not a phone for christs sake.

I am not shouting...I just don't know how to separate the various quotes to reply, so I highlight my replies, as I am doing now

Secondly, AFL SoO requires players to have actually have been born in the State and most definitely the country they represent. That means only 22 could play for Victoria. There would easily be 22 from NSW, WA and SA.
Qld, NT and the Allies would have to boost the side with players from local leagues, making for an even truer State of Origin side.

Thats exactly what I said, Vic/WA/SA should be able to field side, but NSW and other states should come under the classification of an Allies side, IMO

Thirdly, the AFL play a pre-season competition and has only 1 bye (at the moment) which is in reality a split round. Just because the AFL isa big organisation with heaps of money does not mean it can make years, months or weeks any longer than they are. If you are so sure the AFL can manage to squeeze in any kind of meaningful SoO series how about you give us a look at your proposed calender, of course allowing for the NAB Cup and regular Premiership season

I would dump the NAB Cup...its a non event or an opportunity for so called practice games....then the afl could stage a SOO Series each year.

Fourthly,(I know that's not correct grammar but is in keeping with the posts in this thread), Rugby League players "embrace" SoO and Rep games as they raise the players stocks when looking to negotiate contract early in the next season with rival clubs, rival codes and overseas sides.

Not entirely true, though no doubt it would be in the minds of some rugby league players, but generally I think they are proud to be picked to represent their state and of course Aust.
I would imagine if the afl had viable competition outside of Australia, you could bet your bottom dollar many afl players would be doing the exact same thing....the afl supporters should count their blessings that the game is only concentrated within Australia, because is nothing worse than a loved players changing clubs, or worse still going overseas to play or to another code e.g. rugby union.

Fifthly, (see above) Cricket is right at the moment suffering the effects of over-playing the game in it's various guises. Too much is a bad thing in some cases.

I think rugby league has just about got it right.....we don't play games virtually year round as in cricket. This year was a bit different because of the RL World Cup.

Getting back to West Sydney, or NSW in fact, they are not very passionate about sport generally, so I would be treading very warily into that area...afl should be concentrating on the Swans, Tassie, etc.

 

[samiam]

You have a go at Victorian's ignorance by spewing forth some ignorant crap of your own.

Tasmania is a state that can claim the same population distribution.

If you are going to choose the most ignorant and outlandish claim by someone who happens to be a Victorian, then glorify it into being what you claim to be a typical opinion, at lease have the decency to not be hypocritical.

Nice one, mate. The distribution of the population of a very small state like Tasmania is very similar to that of the population of a very large area like Queensland!

Looks like you can join the ignorant Victorian category, because you clearly have no clue about Queensland, or what differences might exist between Brisbane, and cities that are nearly 2000km away in the same state. Just because you live in a small state don't assume that we are all the same.

You've got to love on Bigfooty that if anybody from what you arrogantly call a non-football state tries to tell you how the real world is different from what the AFL propaganda machine tells you then they are immediately vilified and told that they are full of "ignorant crap".

Don't bother replying. I am sure that somebody will ban me for a week now for not saying "AFL Rulz!". Can't have someone not "on message" can we, precious?

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Nice one, mate. The distribution of the population of a very small state like Tasmania is very similar to that of the population of a very large area like Queensland!

Except what was said was

Queensland is the only state with a greater outside the capital city

, whereas this also true of Tasmania.
Tasmania is the only state where more than 50% of the population live more than 100km frm the capital.
The populations and distances are smaller, but by some measures Tasmania has a more spread population than Qld.

 

[mediumsizered]

Don't be under any illusions West Sydney will be the biggest unmitigated disaster and the only good thing to come out of it will be the resultant change in the AFL administration.

Think about these points:

3/ Hey anyone remember Western Suburbs Rugby League club?? Not even a league club survived out there.

6/ Has anybody been watching the recent riots out where this team is going to be? Unemployment is in double digits and rising, who is going to buy tickets? Who is going to buy memberships and merchandise?

I don't pretend to know more about Sydney than a local (can't really stand the place), but I feel the need to correct a couple of errant claims you have made.

Western Suburbs still exists in the NRL, albeit having merged with Balmain. They still play some of their home games at Campbelltown, their longstanding home ground. Campbelltown is SW of Sydney approximately 32km from Bankstown (the proposed headquarters of the West Sydney team), which sits roughly WNW of Sydney.

Many of the surrounding suburbs to Campbelltown eg Minto, Macquarie Fields, Casula, contain significant concentrations of Ministry of Housing properties. Hardly a region in which even a rugby league team could build a strong financial foundation. No surprise that Wests had to consider a merger, in which they had to give up their colours & change from Magpies to Tigers.

Rosemeadow, the suburb in which the most recent riots took place (not to be confused with the riots at the aforementioned Macquarie Fields, a little while ago), lies a further 7km (approx) south of Campbelltown, putting it approx 39km sw from Bankstown.

I doubt very much that the AFL is looking to these areas for potential supporters of a West Sydney team that will be located a significant distance away from the regions of which you speak.

 

[Ry009]

Western Sydney would work a lot better in the long run if it was not a relocated Melbourne Club. Purely because it gives Sydney siders something to own completely and create a larger sense of rivalry with the Melbourne Clubs.

I like the sound of Barassi' vision of 4 clubs in Sydney eventually.

For any sort of a return, way too much money will have to be invested for way too long. Much like the GC but im happy to be proved wrong in the future, for the sake of footy followers across the country.

And with all due respect, 4 AFL teams in Sydney is pure fantasy.

 

[jackmac7]

I think it all depends on how GC17 goes. If the Gold Coast kicks off and becomes a big success for the AFL's expansion plans then the AFL will go full steam ahead for WS in either 2012 or 2013. Leaving it any longer than that wont make a whole lot of sense because they really should have been in the GC by now and they wont wait around for West Sydney for things to be perfect.

It's going to take time but it is key that the AFL get it 100% right. AFL is a game that attracts the masses and has proved that it tough competitive territory in Sydney with Swans games capable of pulling 60,000 in the west at ANZ stadium. The bonus for AFL is to crack the huge audience in West Sydney on offer along with NSW in their ambitious push into RL heartland.

Swans games pulling 60k at ANZ. Throw in a harbour city derby with a sky blue WS team against the flashy red of the Swans and you are potentially looking at 80,000 at ANZ which is where the AFL sees football in NSW in the future.

A cross town rivalry, AFL every weekend in Sydney, more fans and a foothold into the coomunity of the Western Suburbs is on offer for AFL if they execute this properly. Not to mention the $$$ they will get for the next TV rights deal.

GC will be a success and I think that will follow on with WS not long after.

 

[Fire]

Nice one, mate. The distribution of the population of a very small state like Tasmania is very similar to that of the population of a very large area like Queensland!

Looks like you can join the ignorant Victorian category, because you clearly have no clue about Queensland, or what differences might exist between Brisbane, and cities that are nearly 2000km away in the same state. Just because you live in a small state don't assume that we are all the same.

You've got to love on Bigfooty that if anybody from what you arrogantly call a non-football state tries to tell you how the real world is different from what the AFL propaganda machine tells you then they are immediately vilified and told that they are full of "ignorant crap".

Don't bother replying. I am sure that somebody will ban me for a week now for not saying "AFL Rulz!". Can't have someone not "on message" can we, precious?

Why is it that you reacted so poorly when what I said was right? You were being ignorant and hypocritical. You were doing the very thing you were critisising.

I have lived in Brisbane FWIW. But then again that doesn't matter, as I never implied that all Queenslanders are the same. You just want to fabricate a viewpoint for me so that you can attack as a form of defense.

Grow up.

 

[Rob]

I think it all depends on how GC17 goes. If the Gold Coast kicks off and becomes a big success for the AFL's expansion plans then the AFL will go full steam ahead for WS in either 2012 or 2013. Leaving it any longer than that wont make a whole lot of sense because they really should have been in the GC by now and they wont wait around for West Sydney for things to be perfect.

If the AFL are looking at 2012 for West Sydney, then the bulk of the ground work will need to have happened before the GC has even played a game.

 

[RUNVS]

If the AFL are looking at 2012 for West Sydney, then the bulk of the ground work will need to have happened before the GC has even played a game.

True but luckily the financial crisis should be completely over by 2012 or 2013 so thats one problem the AFL doesnt have to deal with atleast.

 

[wikipediaAFLproject]

We all know that Western Sydney is a pretty bad place to live (there are prob a few nice areas)!!

How about the AFL sponsors programs like Youth Off the Streets, and Salvation Army. This way they get to show the side of the game that has made it so big around the rest of the country, as well as getting access to kids.
Yes they may not be able to pay to attend games, but it will get the message out that there is a sport in town that wants to help and perhaps word of mouth will spread the game. And the parents would send their kids to Auskick knowing that they may get some life lessons.

 

[kookadog]

I don't pretend to know more about Sydney than a local (can't really stand the place), but I feel the need to correct a couple of errant claims you have made.

Western Suburbs still exists in the NRL, albeit having merged with Balmain. They still play some of their home games at Campbelltown, their longstanding home ground. Campbelltown is SW of Sydney approximately 32km from Bankstown (the proposed headquarters of the West Sydney team), which sits roughly WNW of Sydney.

Many of the surrounding suburbs to Campbelltown eg Minto, Macquarie Fields, Casula, contain significant concentrations of Ministry of Housing properties. Hardly a region in which even a rugby league team could build a strong financial foundation. No surprise that Wests had to consider a merger, in which they had to give up their colours & change from Magpies to Tigers.

Rosemeadow, the suburb in which the most recent riots took place (not to be confused with the riots at the aforementioned Macquarie Fields, a little while ago), lies a further 7km (approx) south of Campbelltown, putting it approx 39km sw from Bankstown.

I doubt very much that the AFL is looking to these areas for potential supporters of a West Sydney team that will be located a significant distance away from the regions of which you speak.

Blacktown rather than Bankstown

 

[mediumsizered]

Blacktown rather than Bankstown

I stand corrected & this further supports the points I have made in my previous post.

 

[dunno4]

I don't pretend to know more about Sydney than a local (can't really stand the place), but I feel the need to correct a couple of errant claims you have made.

Western Suburbs still exists in the NRL, albeit having merged with Balmain. They still play some of their home games at Campbelltown, their longstanding home ground. Campbelltown is SW of Sydney approximately 32km from Bankstown (the proposed headquarters of the West Sydney team), which sits roughly WNW of Sydney.

Many of the surrounding suburbs to Campbelltown eg Minto, Macquarie Fields, Casula, contain significant concentrations of Ministry of Housing properties. Hardly a region in which even a rugby league team could build a strong financial foundation. No surprise that Wests had to consider a merger, in which they had to give up their colours & change from Magpies to Tigers.

Rosemeadow, the suburb in which the most recent riots took place (not to be confused with the riots at the aforementioned Macquarie Fields, a little while ago), lies a further 7km (approx) south of Campbelltown, putting it approx 39km sw from Bankstown.

I doubt very much that the AFL is looking to these areas for potential supporters of a West Sydney team that will be located a significant distance away from the regions of which you speak.

Geographically you are correct but all these suburbs must be in the proposed catchment area for the proposed new team.

My turn to correct your claim that Western Suburbs still exists in the NRL. I've checked this year fixtures and cannot see them. To say Western Suburbs still exist is like saying Fitzroy still exist, I think most people would disagree with you on that.