What would a Dutton Liberal leadership mean for the Liberals and the country?

[Gralin]

Its clearly about keeping the lights on safely until such time as an alternative is ready.

Australia's consumption of fossil fuels is 1/100th of bugger all in the scheme of things. It makes zero difference to the world's carbon footprint. Fossil fuel companies will still continue to operate in Australia as long as countries like China and India have a demand for it so us going to nuclear or to 100% renewables will make barely one iota of difference to their 'profits'.

no its not
Nuclear won't come online for decades

add to that recently during heatwaves in Europe many nuclear plants had to be shut down due to either risks of overheating or lack of water for cooling due to low river levels

nuclear is not climate proof power and it is not ready to use soon power

its also not cheap power

its very expensive power

nothing about the nuclear proposal is about grid security or a better future for people here or anywhere else

also all pollution counts, including the stuff we ship overseas to India and China for them to burn

conservatives have two arguments

1) doing anything wont matter so don't do anything
2) doing something means we wont have power so don't do something

 

[MPMonkeys]

no its not
Nuclear won't come online for decades

add to that recently during heatwaves in Europe many nuclear plants had to be shut down due to either risks of overheating or lack of water for cooling due to low river levels

nuclear is not climate proof power and it is not ready to use soon power

its also not cheap power

its very expensive power

nothing about the nuclear proposal is about grid security or a better future for people here or anywhere else

also all pollution counts, including the stuff we ship overseas to India and China for them to burn

conservatives have two arguments

1) doing anything wont matter so don't do anything
2) doing something means we wont have power so don't do something

Well you’ve missed the main argument then.
3. Do something but ensure the transition process is safe, efficient, cost effective and is as less impactful as possible.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Labor is going to have a field day destroying Dutton.

Doubt it, they’re just as useless

 

[JackOutback]

I don't see this being the death of the coalitions hopes to win the next election

our political and media landscape as well as general public apathy means that something like 60% of votes don't move regardless of what anyone says

at the moment Labors inaction on pretty much everything is doing more damage to their chances than anything Spud says

While I agree there are a majority of people that don't move, the Coalition is coming from some way back, they lost seats to the Teals at the last election, who campaign on some green issues, and nuclear is something no one wants in their backyard and is open to the mother of all scare campaigns. Jim Chalmers pretty much nailed it:

This might be the dumbest policy ever put forward by a major party. It is the worst combination of economic and ideological stupidity.

Meanwhile, the Minerals Council is backing it, which should be proof positive its in their interests, not in the interests of the environment and just bad policy all round.

 

[The Punter]

Another symptom of the reality of politics in the 21st century

• make contact with the SA plant owners to get their approval, the plan leaks
• don't make contact so the plan doesn't leak, have the SA plant owners tear down the plan at the earliest opportunity

Pick your poison.

BTW, almost all political parties will run the risk of #2 rather than #1.

 

[CM86]

The whole renewable strategy is completely un-costed and unknown. Lets not forget that Bowen promised power prices would go down and instead they went up so any credibility Labor and The Greens have on costing energy is in the toilet.

There is no way we are going to meet the 2030 targets on the current trajectory, nor the 2050 target for that matter. Unless we want to send this country back to the Stone Ages.

All you ever do is post at best misleading, to at worst outright lies.

From the horrible things you've claimed about rape victims and what they deserve and if they should even be called victims, to dismissing Covid as a flu and now this about Bowen and your 'renewable myths stone age' bullshit.


You're such a scumbag.
Get help.

 

[Gralin]

While I agree there are a majority of people that don't move, the Coalition is coming from some way back, they lost seats to the Teals at the last election, who campaign on some green issues, and nuclear is something no one wants in their backyard and is open to the mother of all scare campaigns. Jim Chalmers pretty much nailed it:


Meanwhile, the Minerals Council is backing it, which should be proof positive its in their interests, not in the interests of the environment and just bad policy all round.

its bad policy all round yes
its also relevant to look at the fact that the coalition are trending up and labor are trending down

because people blame the party in power for their current circumstance and are more likely to vote on that nationally than on whether someone else ends up with a nuclear reactor in their back yard in 30 years time

 

[MPMonkeys]

There is a nuclear reactor in someone's backyard right now - Lucas Heights. Plus right throughout Europe, the US, Canada - basically every developed country in the world. Why are we special?

People will see right through that scare campaign.

 

[JackOutback]

its bad policy all round yes
its also relevant to look at the fact that the coalition are trending up and labor are trending down

because people blame the party in power for their current circumstance and are more likely to vote on that nationally than on whether someone else ends up with a nuclear reactor in their back yard in 30 years time

View attachment 2023900

Sure, but polls always tighten at election time, the period in between is when you whack the government, the election is when people will look at nuclear and decide whether it's actually good policy.

 

[The Punter]

Is there an abuse filter?

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

There is a nuclear reactor in someone's backyard right now - Lucas Heights. Plus right throughout Europe, the US, Canada - basically every developed country in the world. Why are we special?

People will see right through that scare campaign

People also saw a Japanese nuclear power plant go boom.

The Japanese aren't exactly known for being dangerous and unsafe.

Thier safety culture is second to none

 

[MPMonkeys]

Meanwhile, the Minerals Council is backing it, which should be proof positive its in their interests, not in the interests of the environment and just bad policy all round.

Most of our minerals are exported so unless you reduce the demand from overseas or stop exporting all together then what Australia does locally in terms of its energy supply makes barely any difference at all to them.

 

[Cap]

Well as usual not enough detail

If you don't know, say no.

 

[Saint]

It's very easy to draw basic, but erroneous, conclusions about how increased renewables is correlated with increased power prices.

But the reality is that renewables are being invested in because the other options are more expensive and getting even more expensive.

Electricity prices are up in Australia mostly because of Gas prices increasing by 500% and no re-investment in old coal plants.

Renewables are the only thing keeping the price down. If renewables didn't exist, there would be more gas and therefore increased prices (this is what Dutton is proposing for the next 20 years).

Libs are proposing that for the next 20 years, we will have gas and minimal renewables, then nuclear.
ALP are proposing that we will have gas and increasing renewables and storage until, in 20 years we have enough renewables and storage.

The Libs plan is not only more expensive in the short term, it's more expensive in the long term. ALP's will be a gradual step-down in price, LNP's will be a gradual step-up in price.

 

[GrayRanga]

There is a nuclear reactor in someone's backyard right now - Lucas Heights. Plus right throughout Europe, the US, Canada - basically every developed country in the world. Why are we special?

People will see right through that scare campaign.

Come on, Pray tell us, how does the Federal Government dictate to the States where a Nuclear Power Plant can be located?

Reference to the Australian Constitution and the Letters Patent of each State would be appreciated

If Nuclear Power is such a profitable decision to make, why aren't all the Equity Fund brokers, or even the big miners champing at the bit with their own fully funded proposals with cost benefit spread sheets at the ready

The free market and all.

Socialise the costs and privatise the profits maybe?

 

[Bunk Moreland]

There is a nuclear reactor in someone's backyard right now - Lucas Heights. Plus right throughout Europe, the US, Canada - basically every developed country in the world. Why are we special?

People will see right through that scare campaign.

We’re special because we’ve always had our own coal to burn

Now, technology means we have endless renewable options which are cheaper and more reliable than coal or nuclear are or ever will be

There is one question - and that is the transition from one to the other.

Dutton and the LNP don’t want the transition to ever happen as they are representing the mining lobby.

Dutton and the LNP have absolutely no intention of ever introducing nuclear power to Australia

They can’t

They won’t

They don’t want to

It’s simply their way of saying “we will never transition to renewables”

If you actually believe anything other than this, you’re an absolute muppet and highly challenged. Sorry to say, but it’s true.

 

[MPMonkeys]

People also saw a Japanese nuclear power plant go boom.

The Japanese aren't exactly known for being dangerous and unsafe.

Thier safety culture is second to none

1. It didn't go 'Boom' - you've been watching too much television
2. Impacts on people were minor
3. It happened almost 15 years ago.
4. There are currently over 400 nuclear power plants globally operating with no incidents.

 

[Gralin]

Is there an abuse filter?

there is a report function

you know that

use it or PM a board mod

 

[MPMonkeys]

It's very easy to draw basic, but erroneous, conclusions about how increased renewables is correlated with increased power prices.

But the reality is that renewables are being invested in because the other options are more expensive and getting even more expensive.

Electricity prices are up in Australia mostly because of Gas prices increasing by 500% and no re-investment in old coal plants.

Renewables are the only thing keeping the price down. If renewables didn't exist, there would be more gas and therefore increased prices (this is what Dutton is proposing for the next 20 years).

Libs are proposing that for the next 20 years, we will have gas and minimal renewables, then nuclear.
ALP are proposing that we will have gas and increasing renewables and storage until, in 20 years we have enough renewables and storage.

The Libs plan is not only more expensive in the short term, it's more expensive in the long term. ALP's will be a gradual step-down in price, LNP's will be a gradual step-up in price.

Pray tell when will this mythical step down in price occur because real life examples from not just Australia but everywhere else suggest that it is completely the opposite.

 

[Gralin]

Sure, but polls always tighten at election time, the period in between is when you whack the government, the election is when people will look at nuclear and decide whether it's actually good policy.

at some point if Labor dont pay attention it will be too late for them to recover come election time

same as the voice

nuclear isn't going to be the decision at the election

how people feel about their lives at election time will be the primary driver

 

[Ghost Patrol]

No proposed site for Springfield?

Dutton is tripping balls.

 

[Saint]

Most of our minerals are exported so unless you reduce the demand from overseas or stop exporting all together then what Australia does locally in terms of its energy supply makes barely any difference at all to them.

If this were a worthwhile argument, surely we would just be investing in more coal-fired power?

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm just going to go light up the incinerator to get rid of my waste. It's just one incinerator full of plastic, nothing when compared to all the truck exhaust of China.

 

[MPMonkeys]

Now, technology means we have endless renewable options which are cheaper and more reliable than coal or nuclear are or ever will be

How can you say its cheaper and more reliable?
This is a guess as to what may happen in the future.

At the moment, its the complete opposite.

 

[nut]

F***ing hell, down to six already.

I can’t believe people can’t see through the LNP policy …

They want a policy so they can attack Renewables….
They don’t plan on ever building Nuclear .. they know they can’t with out the States approval.
They can attack the states and blame them for not being able to implement the policy ..

It’s actually a clever policy if the Australian people are too dumb to realise … which makes it a good policy,

straight out of the Morrison playbook too… blame the State governments.

 

[MPMonkeys]

at some point if Labor dont pay attention it will be too late for them to recover come election time

same as the voice

nuclear isn't going to be the decision at the election

how people feel about their lives at election time will be the primary driver

Correct - and people don't feel too great with power bills through the roof and the threat of black-outs hanging over their heads.