Analysis Where to from here?

Remove this Banner Ad

Status
Not open for further replies.
pollywaffle said:
Not allowed to mention h**dbags any more. Shame on you.
Its man purses :cool:
Click to expand...

I believe it's a "European carryall"
seinfeld.fandom.com

European Carryall

"I can never find anything in here." - Jerry The European Carryall, in reality a purse, is a black, leather handbag used to hold items. It can either be used by men or women. Jerry starts wearing one, but constantly gets made fun of by everyone. It eventually gets stolen, and it is not until...
seinfeld.fandom.com seinfeld.fandom.com
 
BORIS332 said:
Two points:

1. One player’s performance doesn’t speak to the cohesion of the 22.

2. This was Duncan’s heat map on Friday night:

View attachment 1221509

Take away his 14 kick ins and Duncan had 19 disposals on Friday night.
Click to expand...
I get what they were trying to do with no Stewart down back, but just 2 inside 50s for Duncan all match when he's probably our best kick going forward while the others just bombed it blindly all night hurts. We really are in dire need of good ball users down back.
 

Log in to remove this ad.

STPer18 said:
I get what they were trying to do with no Stewart down back, but just 2 inside 50s for Duncan all match when he's probably our best kick going forward while the others just bombed it blindly all night hurts. We really are in dire need of good ball users down back.
Click to expand...

Agree completely. We were kicking to Aliir's lead just about.
 
BORIS332 said:
Two points:

1. One player’s performance doesn’t speak to the cohesion of the 22.

2. This was Duncan’s heat map on Friday night:

View attachment 1221509

Take away his 14 kick ins and Duncan had 19 disposals on Friday night.
Click to expand...
That confirms what I suspected - he was playing far too deep. Would be interesting to compare that heat map to one of Stewart's games? I also thought Duncan uncharacteristically missed a lot of targets by foot. He wasn't alone, but certainly wasn't in our best I thought.
 
CatAttack84 said:
I believe it's a "European carryall"
seinfeld.fandom.com

European Carryall

"I can never find anything in here." - Jerry The European Carryall, in reality a purse, is a black, leather handbag used to hold items. It can either be used by men or women. Jerry starts wearing one, but constantly gets made fun of by everyone. It eventually gets stolen, and it is not until...
seinfeld.fandom.com seinfeld.fandom.com
Click to expand...
The pivotonian carryall?
 
bellpark said:
Great post. Sydney model please. Tip in at least 6 young ens next year and play em all year. Bombers also did this.
make calls on fragile players who are often injured and move em on. We have a history of spending say 4 or 5 years with such players then moving them and THEN they become regular players elsewhere (McCarthy and Cockatoo for example)- make the call earlier and put the time into others if our medical team aren’t up to it. Cooper Stephen’s is a classic example. Play our youngsters or they will go - Holmes, Evans, SDK, Krueger, etc. if Clarke wants to go home turn that into something decent or keep him and play him.
Change our selection process and the members of the committee - they are our weakest link.
Teams will have salary cap squeezes like Sydney last year and this year - what didn’t we get Allir for a 3rd round pick? Be smarter and react to opportunities.
Confront Scott and demand change from him and if he is not convincing with the plan to change a broken model then don’t extend him.
Confront the Board and management as well and make it clear running the joint to be consistently good and survive is important but not the main objective. Check that our social community and other goals ( all laudabl) are not blocking us in terms of focus support and time in winning premierships.
be real about how many players were ill or injured going into that game last night and never do it again.
Click to expand...

How exactly do we get access to 6 top line young kids every year, despite finishing in the top 8 regularly? The Sydney model utilises an Academy and gets first access to very very good young players for relatively cheap draft picks.
 
catempire said:
Where indeed.

First order of business is to finish off this season in whatever form that takes. We are in the strong position of being a top 4 team coming up against a team who could easily have missed the eight. History shows that the QF loser will win this matchup nine out of ten times. The only doubt really is that GWS have troubled us in recent times. They might have the key to beating us in matchups or gameplan. We will see. Despite the crazy suggestions seen in this thread and elsewhere since Friday night, it won't be a case of turning things on their head this week. That's not how you have a successful finals campaign. Rightly or wrongly you have to back your system in to win and if it's not good enough you revisit that system over summer. No quick fixes are going to make up for a system that is deficient. So we will see Tuohy replace O'Connor perhaps even as the only change. Probably the only other thing in play is Ratugolea. But it's hard to see who they would be willing to drop.

In a broader, list management, sense of 'where to from here' it is also not as dramatic as some here have suggested. As I posted in the draft thread, we have no retirements, a tight cap and a weak draft hand which will see minimal list changes this summer. The free agent pool looks thin and there are no attractive trade targets. Our 2022 list will look fairly similar to our 2021 list with changes largely at the fringes.

More interestingly, I think, is what we are looking at ahead of us for 2023 and beyond. It seems Scott will be re-appointed to a long term deal so he will have the reigns. We can probably assume quite a few senior players not being around for the post-2023 era, or at least we can no longer build around them. We will, in my view, be looking to bring in a big key forward and elite midfielder at the end of 2022 for obvious reasons.

I'm also interested to see how the rest of this finals campaign plays out as a test of controlling football philosophy. This has been Scott's third or fourth reinvention of the dominant style of play for his team. At times this season it looked like it could be capable of beating all comers. But the past two weeks have seen significant blows to its credibility. The second half against Melbourne was insipid in every single way. Worryingly, the players and Scott sought to gloss over it by referring to uncharacteristic mistakes at the end of the game. This missed the point. Having an opposition kick eight goals to zip against you reveals a critical weakness of some kind. Then against Port, it was as predictable as it was depressing: an opposition brings the heat in a QF and the Geelong plan unravels pretty quickly. The punters focus on the mistakes of individuals: Blicavs kicking across goal, Henderson and Dangerfield dropping easy marks, missed easy shots at goal. But this is all part of a pattern in QFs for Geelong that cannot be ignored. It is a pattern of an incapacity to prevail when some things don't go our way. In QFs the first thing that changes is you will face a motivated, credentialed and well-schooled opponent that will hone in on your weaknesses and probably have some success at exploiting them. You must have a sufficient degree of resilience to absorb the challenge while limiting damage on the scoreboard and then get things back on your terms and then capitalise your own advantages. Geelong tends to fail on both fronts: allowing opponents to score too freely and then failing to do our own damage when we get the chances. It is too common an occurrence to continue to refuse to accept this.

What does that mean? I would love to see Geelong accept that footy is played a way we don't like and we don't respect but we must embrace: pressure football has dominated football for the past five years. Be the team that others hate playing because we will be putting them under relentless pressure. Don't give them the opportunity to do that to us. Get them out of their comfort zone and then play to our strengths: get the ball into Hawkins, Cameron and Rohan as quickly as possible.
Click to expand...
I would say that what Scott and the Players say publicly and what they take out of losses/wins is very different. Often they say dumbed down, Captain Obvious stuff, because that's what they are asked to say by the media asking the questions. Q: "How did the players take the loss and what will you do to get them up for next week?" A: "Well, you know that really hurt, but we'll bounce back, as it's the Geelong way". Sounds like something was said, but really nothing was said. And by the time 5 irrelevant trite questions are asked, the press conference is over.

What they talk about internally would be about the microscopic analysis of errors, the flow of the game and how to manage it, decision making and execution under pressure, what really went wrong and what needs to be improved. The more professional, analytical stuff, done by absolute experts in their field (Scott, Scarlett, Enright, Lloyd, Selwood, Hawkins, Cameron, Danger, Duncan etc).

And no matter what they say, they won't say anything negative, as they really don't want to show panic, or worry, as this can have a significant impact on the entire group. Look at Fagan after the loss. "We are the most attacking team in competition and McStay out won't change that". But we all (think we) know that it will change and will impact their team - because the structure radically for that attack now changes with him out - without a realistic matchfit replacement.

There's no doubt that the team was revved up before the game. They would have turned up to come and hunt Port. But the skill errors they were making, the poor positioning, high skill efforts from Port and a f*ckload of the ball just bouncing the right way to a Port player just started to add up.

I just think back to that Henry spoil forward (where he leapt and just got his fingers to it) that resulted in a goal? Well, it's all a matter of inches and timing really. Likewise Henderson hitting it to the right spot for Rozee (?) to score, when if he got that hit right, it would gone to 2 Geelong players in space who had a clear path up the wing. Sometimes it's honestly just dumb luck and it compounds over and over and suddenly the game is gone. Essendon yesterday were clearly the team up for the fight in the first half, yet some free kicks, all there, but very lucky, changed the course of the game and allowed the Bulldogs their breathing space.
 
catempire said:
You might be right about coaching. I find it hard to believe Scott will go 180 on this. He has backed himself to unpick and undermine the pressure trend. This year he has nearly pulled it off with controlling football but it won’t stand up for long enough in finals.

But in terms of personnel we are already recruiting and selecting players who are tailor made for the pressure game. The issue is that we are doing it from a reactive starting point. Under Scott it’s all about absorbing the pressure and counter-punching in a methodical way. That doesn’t work in finals. Winners take the initiative and get the game on terms and then go for the kill.
Click to expand...
YES!!!!
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Mad_Hatter said:
My NFL team (NO Saints) reminds me of the Cats, kept pushing an aging team on the verge of losing players (due to cap space mostly) to try to snare that one last Super Bowl for Drew Brees. Problem was with age comes short comings and Drew wasn't the QB he was previously, and it became our Achilles heel.
Now we face an uncertain future and a very thin roster.... Like I see the Cats becoming in a few years :/
Click to expand...
Great comparison. Struggled to get over the hump and kept topping up. Mirrors us completely

Jameis looks solid though, granted it's only pre-season
 
Something has to change. So what, practically, can change?

1. Dalhaus, Higgins never to play again
2. Zuthrie, Atkins strictly depth players
3. Menegola, Rohan, Cam Guthrie, Parfitt no longer undroppable and need to actively justify their place each week
4. Selwood, Dangerfield, Hawkins only to play if 100% fit and firing and Selwood only to play at most 60% of H&A games
5. New captain, Mitch Duncan or Tom Stewart please
6. Small forwards to actually stay in the forward line with their primary objective being to kick or generate goals, specifically Miers and Close
7. Kreuger to play every game instead of Henderson unless injured
8. Clark to be the starting half back flank instead of Tuohy unless his form is so diabolical that he must be dropped
9. Ban on trading draft picks unless Clayton Oliver wants to come to us for a second rounder
10. Club to aggressively clear out 'project' players who are not developing (Brownless, Jarvis, Okunbor, Taheny, Fort, Jenkins)
11. 'Control' gameplan to be clearly Plan B, with Plan A to be a more contested, faster gameplan that takes advantage of our key forwards and is designed to stand up in finals. We are no longer the benchmark and we need to look closely at what works for other teams and how we can look to do it, but better.
12. Ban on importing any player over the age of 27 or with a significant injury history
13. Focus at draft time on getting the basics right, i.e., no more 'smokies' and 'surprise' picks, just take the best available according to a reasonably broad view of it
14. All players to be made aware that form will dictate selection, not 'roles', and that any player who fails to show the necessary level of effort will play VFL while any VFL player who does now the necessary form will be strongly considered for AFL

All of that can be done within our existing situation. Then going forward, I want to see the topping up strategy in the bin. Yes, if you can get Isaac Smith for free, you grab him. No, you don't trade pick 30 for Shaun Higgins or pay Dalhaus half a million dollars a year.

And the club must become less nervy about blooding and getting games into younger players. Some will sink, some will swim. You will never find out what you have got if you don't throw them in the deep end at some point. If we can't tolerate a few bags being kicked on young defenders, we will simply never develop a defender again. If you can't tolerate a few games where small forwards don't have much impact, we will never develop a forward again. Maybe they need a still shot of the 2005 Sydney semi-final on the wall so that they can remember that even our greatest ever team was once a bunch of inconsistent kids who ****ed up regularly against good opposition.
 
caitsith01 said:
Something has to change. So what, practically, can change?

1. Dalhaus, Higgins never to play again
2. Zuthrie, Atkins strictly depth players
3. Menegola, Rohan, Cam Guthrie, Parfitt no longer undroppable and need to actively justify their place each week
4. Selwood, Dangerfield, Hawkins only to play if 100% fit and firing and Selwood only to play at most 60% of H&A games
5. New captain, Mitch Duncan or Tom Stewart please
6. Small forwards to actually stay in the forward line with their primary objective being to kick or generate goals, specifically Miers and Close
7. Kreuger to play every game instead of Henderson unless injured
8. Clark to be the starting half back flank instead of Tuohy unless his form is so diabolical that he must be dropped
9. Ban on trading draft picks unless Clayton Oliver wants to come to us for a second rounder
10. Club to aggressively clear out 'project' players who are not developing (Brownless, Jarvis, Okunbor, Taheny, Fort, Jenkins)
11. 'Control' gameplan to be clearly Plan B, with Plan A to be a more contested, faster gameplan that takes advantage of our key forwards and is designed to stand up in finals. We are no longer the benchmark and we need to look closely at what works for other teams and how we can look to do it, but better.
12. Ban on importing any player over the age of 27 or with a significant injury history
13. Focus at draft time on getting the basics right, i.e., no more 'smokies' and 'surprise' picks, just take the best available according to a reasonably broad view of it
14. All players to be made aware that form will dictate selection, not 'roles', and that any player who fails to show the necessary level of effort will play VFL while any VFL player who does now the necessary form will be strongly considered for AFL

All of that can be done within our existing situation. Then going forward, I want to see the topping up strategy in the bin. Yes, if you can get Isaac Smith for free, you grab him. No, you don't trade pick 30 for Shaun Higgins or pay Dalhaus half a million dollars a year.

And the club must become less nervy about blooding and getting games into younger players. Some will sink, some will swim. You will never find out what you have got if you don't throw them in the deep end at some point. If we can't tolerate a few bags being kicked on young defenders, we will simply never develop a defender again. If you can't tolerate a few games where small forwards don't have much impact, we will never develop a forward again. Maybe they need a still shot of the 2005 Sydney semi-final on the wall so that they can remember that even our greatest ever team was once a bunch of inconsistent kids who f’ed up regularly against good opposition.
Click to expand...
Please don't tell me Dalhaus is on $500k a year
 
My gawd
In terms of return on investment that's Mitch McGovern like
 
I know we’re all a bit shattered, but would have thought this thread is a little bit premature.

Ive followed the club since the 70’s and can’t believe our own fans are bringing up flipping hand******s…. Leave it out! Also couldn’t give a toss about anyone’s NBA or NFL clubs. We are Geelong and we’re one on the oldest professional sporting clubs in the world. We’ve turned ourselves into a great club! United board and football department, well coached etc and performing well on the field every year.

What will stop making this club great is splintering. Yes this may generally start at the board level, but it’s often led by disgruntled fans.

So please to all disgruntled fans, go and hit a punching bag until you’re spent and then look forward to another final this week. We’re still alive.

We have some generational players, who the club have rightly backed in to win a flag with, whilst at the same time develop ed some youth. If it doesn’t work this year, tough calls will be made.

It’s up to our experienced midfielders this week, perform or they’ll be gone or supporting youth and playing out their careers from here.
 
BORIS332 said:
Two points:

1. One player’s performance doesn’t speak to the cohesion of the 22.

2. This was Duncan’s heat map on Friday night:

View attachment 1221509

Take away his 14 kick ins and Duncan had 19 disposals on Friday night.
Click to expand...

Take away his 14 kick-ins and he still had 19 touches with 10 kicks and 13 marks playing a defensive role.

Most marks on the ground by far, with Henry, who we all raved about, having 9.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Remove this Banner Ad

Similar threads

cats_09
No Oppo Supporters Tanner Bruhn interviewed by police over incident from 2023
2 3
Replies
62
Views
4K
The_Koulouriotis_Fan
The_Koulouriotis_Fan
newcs
  • Locked
Good luck getting to the game from Melbourne. V/Line and VicRoads are at it again.
Replies
1
Views
422
cats_09
cats_09
dazbroncos
Review Cats take THE RIVALRY from the Hawks again with 51 point win
17 18 19 20 21
Replies
503
Views
16K
Spearman
Spearman
G
Which 4 players from our premiership team (2007-2011) would you pick to be in our current team?
2 3 4 5
Replies
106
Views
3K
Sire of Claude
S
BlakeyNoFlakey
Toast Tom Hawkins To Retire
6 7 8 9 10
Replies
229
Views
11K
Pure_Ownage
Pure_Ownage
dazbroncos
Review Geelong whip Eagles by 93 points to secure Top 4 spot
9 10 11 12 13
Replies
322
Views
9K
Freomaniac
Freomaniac
Sttew
Cats top 10 players since 2000
6 7 8 9 10
Replies
244
Views
7K
Vdubs
Vdubs

Remove this Banner Ad

Back
Top