Prediction Where will Carlton finish in 2019?

[TooBlue14]

You're in for disappointment then, we had more talent on the list and actually had a gameplan and went from 2 wins to 4 wins. There's no way in hell Carlton go from 2 wins to 8 in a season especially with how far off the mark they looked in 2018.

It's still going to take time.

More talent on your list? Please take into account what your players were in 2016 compared to what ours are in 2019

Hogan McGovern --> ? who wins, similar players on and off the field
Jones Cripps --> Cripps easily AA
Salem SPS --> right now most people would take SPS but both had not lived up to their potential at these stages. SPS wins in the end.
Petracca Curnow --> both had huge early years, Curnow been better at the stage of petracca in 2016, Petracca not really gone on with it. Curnow will
Dawes Casboult --> Similar players on the outer at the same time. Casboult got more to give than Dawes did.
Viney Ed Curnow --> inside bulls that have a lot of endurance. Viney better disposal. Ed Curnow underrated externally.
Lumumba Thomas --> Both Ex Collingwood, Thomas reaching his coll form recently off half back. Both to have similar output.
Trengrove Docherty --> Docherty returning to AA and captain. Wins hands down.
Brayshaw Dow --> Dow tracking along nicely. Brayshaw early had a blip but is coming good. Dow wont have that and build nicely in 2019.
Gawn Kruezer --> Kruezer highly rated by Gawn as his toughest opponent. Gawn wins through AA recently. Kruezer in 2017 was better than Gawn in 2016 BUT he hasn't got a lot of time left but Gawn does.
Tyson Murphy --> Murphy not finishing healthy might not have the years left in him. Tyson wins but Murphy in 2017 was pretty special when injury free.
Oliver Stocker --> Who knows if Stocker can track like Oliver. Similar players and their draft value did rise late in the piece. Oliver went higher and has the drive. Hopefully Stocker has too. Was 2016 Olivers first year??
Dunn Plowman --> Plowman is a second hand player from GWS who is underrated externally. Goes to the resting ruck and fills defensive holes. Better than Dunn in 2016 imo.
Stretch Setterfield --> similar age now as in 2016. Stretch wasn't getting regular AFL time. Setterfield if injury free goes past him in his first year playing regular uninjured footy, easily.
Kent Obrien --> Kent wins, not enough yet from obrien. but elite kick. better upside than an off cast ken
Frost Marchbank --> Frost and marchbank have had similar exposure coming from another team. Marchbank rated very high internally. 2019 is his breakout year with weitering. Frost will lose his spot to May in 2019 but in 2016 marchbank will go past his form in 2019.
Garland Jones --> Couldn't find a match up for jones, not sure where he fits against Melbourne players because you don't have one like him. Nor does anyone. Kamikaze defender. very valuable if he gets it right. Data has him elite until his injury later in 2018.
Pederson TDK --> TDK still very raw and young Pederson the gap filler forward ruck. Hopefully TDK goes past him. He was valuable to melb in 2016.
Vince Fisher --> Quick inside outside mids, Vince the better record in 2016, but hes one of the exciting kids to jump up the ranks very quickly in 2019. Had a great 2018 until a player broke his leg with an errant trip.
Kennedy-Harris Pickett --> Both quick on the outside. Pickett not living up to expectations and has a self imposed extra VFL training schedule until after Christmas. K-H the better player right now and probably not going to see Pickett reach the heights he should.
Mcdonald McKay --> The Mcs. Harry is building nicely. I would of preffered him to be with Wiedeman but McDonald is the older one and McKay in comparison to McDonald in 2016 is very even.
Weideman Kerr --> weideman debut year in 2016. Kerr done more in his leading and goals fro the pocket. Not sure if weideman got a game in 2016. Kerr best on track early in preseason. If he steps up and competes for a spot with Mckay, McGovern and Curnow, look out.
Mcdonald Weitering --> Weitering should smash Oscar to pieces. always gets the toughest opponent while Oscar gets regularly beaten by big bodied forwards. in 2016 was much worse, played an intercept role without his current size. Who knows what weitering could become. Watch round 23 v Adelaide for his best. Could be the bet defender in the AFL by 2020 or the next, Oscar Mcdonald at a minimum.
Hunt Williamson--> Williamson the better kick, Hunt the more kamikaze runner. I'd prefer the upside of Williamson if he stays injury free
Neal-Bullen Kennedy --> Keendy and Neal bullen extra mids in the rotation, N-B the better and faster, not a great comparison for size or abilty
Grimes Fasolo --> Fas could be anything, the next Cameron O'shea or the next Alex Fasolo. Fresh club should do him wonders. Grimes was good in 2007 but was old in 2016 and retired soon after.
Bugg Bugg --> whos better here. We probably end up with the more mature Bugg who gets his last chance. No more dickheadedness hopefully.
Spencer Lobbe --> extra mature rucks. Similar. Lobbe was great late in 2018. Hopefully only to be in VFL in 2019 as Kruezer to get all 22 games. knock on wood.
Kennedy Newman --> Couldn't find a place for Newman above. Best 22 in Sydneys team, should play all 22 in 2019. Kennedy was good in 2016. Averaged a goal a game. Newman could be around the mark. Different players though.
Garlett Lebois --> Garlett on the way out now but great in 2016. Probably not a small on carltons list anymore. Lebois is the one we have high hopes for and maybe Polson. Garlett wins easily.
Vanderberg Silvagni --> Silvagni early was great. Been moved around way too much now. Vanderburg was good for Melbourne in 2016 averaged a goal a game and about 13 touches. Silvangi does that and can average that many goals as he did in 2017 but defence and midfield was his go lately and mainly in the VFL which he dominates just like vanderberg. difference in age and an underager in his draft yaer silvangi. His name allows him the time to grow
Jetta Simpson --> small defenders. Simpson the better but no AA, YET. Maybe his later years he gets one.
Harmes Lang --> Harmes eaily. But lang has shown glimpses, injurys hurt.
Garland Garlett --> Our garlett played just as many games as garland in 2016. Garlett the better player right now. Despite the struggles he faces to keep a spot.
Newton Polson
Hullett Cuningham
King Phillips
King Schumacher
Kennedy Finbar
Jones Pickett
Terlich Macreadie
Michie Silvagni

Others i didn't comment on because most of melbournes other players didn't get games. Nor have carltons in 2018. and some only just drafted.

If you're comparing Carlton 2019 to Melbourne 2016 I think you're way off in terms of talent. Maybe at a stretch, Carlton 2018 v Melbourne 2015 is a better reflection But i expect Carlton in 2019 to have a very similar output to the Melbourne did in 2016 despite Carlton having much more talent on their list in the youth backet than Melbourne did in 2016.

 

[Thetrader15]

So Melb 2012? So 16th and 4 wins. I’d say we could easily have a melb 2016 kind of rise as early as 2019 and 10 wins. But I’ve predicted 8 on my ladder predictor.

View attachment 592908

8 wins? How many times are you playing GC? Internal trials don't count.

 

[FISTO]

They're one of the best 50 or so teams on the planet

 

[TooBlue14]

You're in for disappointment then, we had more talent on the list and actually had a gameplan and went from 2 wins to 4 wins. There's no way in hell Carlton go from 2 wins to 8 in a season especially with how far off the mark they looked in 2018.

It's still going to take time.

Who were the additions to best 22 for Melbourne back then from 2012 to 2013.
Out:
Morton
Gysberts
Martin
Green
Jurrah
Petterd
Bate
Bennell

In:
Hogan - Great in but didn't play the following year
Toumpas
Viney - Excellent in
Kent
Jones
Terlich
Nicholson
Evans
Stark
Clisby
Barry
Dawes
Rodan
Pederson
Byrnes
Maloney
Rivers
Gillies

Not a lot of excepetional additions. You could of had Josh Kelly too.

Carlton
Out:
Shaw
ASOS
Oshea
JGM
Kerridge
Graham
Lamb
Mullett
Byrne
McDaid
Rowe
Wright

Not a lot of best 22. Wright, Rowe (maybe) the exception.

In:
McGovern
Walsh
Setterfield
Stocker
Fasolo
Newman
Finbar
Silvagni
Goddard
Bugg
Owies

Add to the that Docherty and Kreuzer who missed all of or most respectively of 2018. Surely it cant just be EVERY OTHER TEAM that improved their list but good old Carlton just gets worse every year.

I'd argue that the difference between Melbourne 2012 and 13 compared to Carlton 2018 and 19 is so far away from reality its not funny . And even they went from 2 - 4 wins in the season. Docherty does that on his own.

 

[TooBlue14]

8 wins? How many times are you playing GC? Internal trials don't count.

GC twice
Saints once
Fremantle
Dogs once
North
Brisb (in melb)
Adel (at the G)

Plenty of others I cold suggest but you wouldn't believe me. lol

 

[Bearded Clam]

There's still a fair bit of talent on their list, players like Rankine and Lukosius will have an impact early but their recruits like Hombsch, Horlin-Smith, Ellis, Miles, Murdoch while not superstars are good mature recruits.

The likes of Bowes, Ainsworth, Ah Chee, Brodie, Fiorini and Powell have improvement in them are balanced out by their mature recruits but also players like Swallow, Miller, Martin, Day, Wright, Witts, Weller, Nicholls, Sexton, Young, Hanley, Harbrow and Thompson.

They have enough talent mixed in with some experience to be better than people are thinking, still bottom 4 but I see them being better than Carlton.

Agree... Gold Coast won’t be anywhere near the top 8 in 2019 but I think they have the potential to surprise..

They won’t have Lynch but they didn’t really have him for most of 2018 either... mainly due to injury.. and you couldn’t confidently say he would’ve been in the right frame of mind when he was playing either.. he’d more than likely already checked out long before the season started.

Many also forget that, due to the Comm games, the Suns didn’t have any home games for the bulk of the first half of the season..

Not sure luko and Rankine will have a massive immediate impact.. will depend on how they settle.. but both lads will be competitive and have experience competing against strong bodied men in SANFL..


The question this thread should be asking is “who do you see Carlton finishing ahead of on the ladder at the end of 2019?”...

St kilda?
Freo?
GC?
Dogs?
Lions?

Who else?

Freo has the advantage of Perth games and Hogan should improve their forward line that was a major cause of their struggles in 2018.
Can’t see the dogs not bouncing back and being more competitive this year.
Lions should be more competitive... and Fagan is a far better coach than Bolton

Carlton’s problems revolve around their poor coaching/player development and they are lacking in the experienced 23-28 year old player range. They’ve got a lot of good young players, a lot of old players and not much in the mid range.

 

[Xhoquelin]

It really depends on how bad the Gold Coast are, but Carlton will finish bottom two.

St Kilda are just slightly more competitive than Carlton, while the additions of Hogan and Lobb immediately result in Fremantle being a couple of tiers above Carlton.

IMO talent wise Saints have no excuse being in the bottom four but sometimes they just play so damn apathetically. At the Saints’ best they get mismatches all over the inside fifty and use their strong runners and brilliant rebound defenders to transition from defence to attack with 2-3 kicks. But games like the Good Friday match are an insult to the fans; I was calling for Richo’s head after that disgraceful display. I don’t think they’re clearly above Carlton; Carlton played with more passion and tenacity last year than the Saints IMO but they just got rocked with injuries over time. Carlton will add a fair few good players to their team this season; saints made the right additions IMO but talent hasn’t been the issue for them IMO moreso some damning inconsistency.
Competitive is not a word I’d associate with St Kilda based on the last two seasons, rather supremely gifted but disappointingly woeful as a whole.

And Freo can definitely put some good stuff together but their midfield outside of Fyfe and the departed Neale at times is just balls. Feel like the tall forwards are scapegoated by the Vic Media; this team just doesn’t win a fking clearance at times unless Fyfe or Neale goes beast mode, comparable to Carlton with Cripps. Thought they went backwards majorly last season by throwing Mundy back in the guts with Blakely and sometimes Cerra on a HBF; Cerra is the heir apparent but hopefully this year they can start throwing Mundy forward as that third option next to Hogan and Lobb which would be far better than Cam McCarthy IMO who is at the root of Freos fairly apathetic displays. If Blakely can’t average 25 touches a game I think they’ll be in major trouble and only win 5-6 games. Hopefully Conca can do some damage for them but given how his career has played out I’m not expecting anything more than 20 touches a game. Whilst they do capitalise the home ground advantage well I don’t think more than 8 points separate them and the Blues at the end of the season.

 

[Fadge]

DEAD. LAST.

 

[Stephen2]

Jesus christ. All that text to compare a douche vs a turd?

 

[Mofra]

GC twice
Saints once
Fremantle
Dogs once
North
Brisb (in melb)
Adel (at the G)

Plenty of others I cold suggest but you wouldn't believe me. lol

We beat you this year with a less experienced side in terms of both age and games played. You've added one quality mature forward and a very promising young mid but that isn't enough to leapfrog us.
Brisbane I'd tip to be the big climbers in 2019, they're quality and it started to come together for them last year.

I see Carlton improving but there will still be a number of teams ahead of them.

 

[Alwaysacrow]

Adel (at the G)

You'd better hope that you guys put in a better effort than the last time Crows played you.
165-61.....lol.

 

[TooBlue14]

We beat you this year with a less experienced side in terms of both age and games played. You've added one quality mature forward and a very promising young mid but that isn't enough to leapfrog us.
Brisbane I'd tip to be the big climbers in 2019, they're quality and it started to come together for them last year.

I see Carlton improving but there will still be a number of teams ahead of them.

And docherty and Kruezer will be playing. Both either AA or AA squad in their previous years before injury.

 

[TooBlue14]

You'd better hope that you guys put in a better effort than the last time Crows played you.
165-61.....lol.

Not at the G. Where we play our best footy and you play your worst. Not even taking into account Coll Ess and Rich games where we play our best footy.

 

[TooBlue14]

We beat you this year with a less experienced side in terms of both age and games played. You've added one quality mature forward and a very promising young mid but that isn't enough to leapfrog us.
Brisbane I'd tip to be the big climbers in 2019, they're quality and it started to come together for them last year.

I see Carlton improving but there will still be a number of teams ahead of them.

Carlton improved dramatically in 2016-17. Very similar to Brisbane. Then we had the worst injury list in the afl and lost experienced leavers on field. Our best players. Exposing plenty of kids too early. No reason to say Bris couldn’t follow a similar path to Carlton. Everyone on here is happy to point out how power Carlton were but discount any reasons behind it. Brisbane however have been in this position before. Still don’t defend well and have just lost beams for Neale while hodge is holding the ship together. Brisbane have convinced us of this before. They’re another bad year away from losing more kids to their home towns.

 

[Captain_Bender]

Relegated to the VFL

 

[TooBlue14]

Jesus christ. All that text to compare a douche vs a turd?

But of course your contribution is ****ing amazing, well done.

 

[TooBlue14]

We beat you this year with a less experienced side in terms of both age and games played. You've added one quality mature forward and a very promising young mid but that isn't enough to leapfrog us.
Brisbane I'd tip to be the big climbers in 2019, they're quality and it started to come together for them last year.

I see Carlton improving but there will still be a number of teams ahead of them.

And what have you added this year. You beat us by 4-5 goals the last 3 years on your preferred deck while we’ve been terrible. This year might be the turning point. My wife is a dogs member as am I and my kid. Been waiting awhile for that illusive win. Two games on Etihad this year and I’m feeling it’s gonna happen. The poor luck we’ve been having is going to change. Players will be better prepared under Russell.

 

[Alwaysacrow]

You'd better hope that you guys put in a better effort than the last time Crows played you.
165-61.....lol.

Nevertheless I think you're still over rating yourselves with those wins you chalked up. I also think you'll only beat GC once. (In Melbourne).

 

[Moist Biscuit]

More talent on your list? Please take into account what your players were in 2016 compared to what ours are in 2019

Hogan McGovern --> ? who wins, similar players on and off the field
Jones Cripps --> Cripps easily AA
Salem SPS --> right now most people would take SPS but both had not lived up to their potential at these stages. SPS wins in the end.
Petracca Curnow --> both had huge early years, Curnow been better at the stage of petracca in 2016, Petracca not really gone on with it. Curnow will
Dawes Casboult --> Similar players on the outer at the same time. Casboult got more to give than Dawes did.
Viney Ed Curnow --> inside bulls that have a lot of endurance. Viney better disposal. Ed Curnow underrated externally.
Lumumba Thomas --> Both Ex Collingwood, Thomas reaching his coll form recently off half back. Both to have similar output.
Trengrove Docherty --> Docherty returning to AA and captain. Wins hands down.
Brayshaw Dow --> Dow tracking along nicely. Brayshaw early had a blip but is coming good. Dow wont have that and build nicely in 2019.
Gawn Kruezer --> Kruezer highly rated by Gawn as his toughest opponent. Gawn wins through AA recently. Kruezer in 2017 was better than Gawn in 2016 BUT he hasn't got a lot of time left but Gawn does.
Tyson Murphy --> Murphy not finishing healthy might not have the years left in him. Tyson wins but Murphy in 2017 was pretty special when injury free.
Oliver Stocker --> Who knows if Stocker can track like Oliver. Similar players and their draft value did rise late in the piece. Oliver went higher and has the drive. Hopefully Stocker has too. Was 2016 Olivers first year??
Dunn Plowman --> Plowman is a second hand player from GWS who is underrated externally. Goes to the resting ruck and fills defensive holes. Better than Dunn in 2016 imo.
Stretch Setterfield --> similar age now as in 2016. Stretch wasn't getting regular AFL time. Setterfield if injury free goes past him in his first year playing regular uninjured footy, easily.
Kent Obrien --> Kent wins, not enough yet from obrien. but elite kick. better upside than an off cast ken
Frost Marchbank --> Frost and marchbank have had similar exposure coming from another team. Marchbank rated very high internally. 2019 is his breakout year with weitering. Frost will lose his spot to May in 2019 but in 2016 marchbank will go past his form in 2019.
Garland Jones --> Couldn't find a match up for jones, not sure where he fits against Melbourne players because you don't have one like him. Nor does anyone. Kamikaze defender. very valuable if he gets it right. Data has him elite until his injury later in 2018.
Pederson TDK --> TDK still very raw and young Pederson the gap filler forward ruck. Hopefully TDK goes past him. He was valuable to melb in 2016.
Vince Fisher --> Quick inside outside mids, Vince the better record in 2016, but hes one of the exciting kids to jump up the ranks very quickly in 2019. Had a great 2018 until a player broke his leg with an errant trip.
Kennedy-Harris Pickett --> Both quick on the outside. Pickett not living up to expectations and has a self imposed extra VFL training schedule until after Christmas. K-H the better player right now and probably not going to see Pickett reach the heights he should.
Mcdonald McKay --> The Mcs. Harry is building nicely. I would of preffered him to be with Wiedeman but McDonald is the older one and McKay in comparison to McDonald in 2016 is very even.
Weideman Kerr --> weideman debut year in 2016. Kerr done more in his leading and goals fro the pocket. Not sure if weideman got a game in 2016. Kerr best on track early in preseason. If he steps up and competes for a spot with Mckay, McGovern and Curnow, look out.
Mcdonald Weitering --> Weitering should smash Oscar to pieces. always gets the toughest opponent while Oscar gets regularly beaten by big bodied forwards. in 2016 was much worse, played an intercept role without his current size. Who knows what weitering could become. Watch round 23 v Adelaide for his best. Could be the bet defender in the AFL by 2020 or the next, Oscar Mcdonald at a minimum.
Hunt Williamson--> Williamson the better kick, Hunt the more kamikaze runner. I'd prefer the upside of Williamson if he stays injury free
Neal-Bullen Kennedy --> Keendy and Neal bullen extra mids in the rotation, N-B the better and faster, not a great comparison for size or abilty
Grimes Fasolo --> Fas could be anything, the next Cameron O'shea or the next Alex Fasolo. Fresh club should do him wonders. Grimes was good in 2007 but was old in 2016 and retired soon after.
Bugg Bugg --> whos better here. We probably end up with the more mature Bugg who gets his last chance. No more dickheadedness hopefully.
Spencer Lobbe --> extra mature rucks. Similar. Lobbe was great late in 2018. Hopefully only to be in VFL in 2019 as Kruezer to get all 22 games. knock on wood.
Kennedy Newman --> Couldn't find a place for Newman above. Best 22 in Sydneys team, should play all 22 in 2019. Kennedy was good in 2016. Averaged a goal a game. Newman could be around the mark. Different players though.
Garlett Lebois --> Garlett on the way out now but great in 2016. Probably not a small on carltons list anymore. Lebois is the one we have high hopes for and maybe Polson. Garlett wins easily.
Vanderberg Silvagni --> Silvagni early was great. Been moved around way too much now. Vanderburg was good for Melbourne in 2016 averaged a goal a game and about 13 touches. Silvangi does that and can average that many goals as he did in 2017 but defence and midfield was his go lately and mainly in the VFL which he dominates just like vanderberg. difference in age and an underager in his draft yaer silvangi. His name allows him the time to grow
Jetta Simpson --> small defenders. Simpson the better but no AA, YET. Maybe his later years he gets one.
Harmes Lang --> Harmes eaily. But lang has shown glimpses, injurys hurt.
Garland Garlett --> Our garlett played just as many games as garland in 2016. Garlett the better player right now. Despite the struggles he faces to keep a spot.
Newton Polson
Hullett Cuningham
King Phillips
King Schumacher
Kennedy Finbar
Jones Pickett
Terlich Macreadie
Michie Silvagni

Others i didn't comment on because most of melbournes other players didn't get games. Nor have carltons in 2018. and some only just drafted.

If you're comparing Carlton 2019 to Melbourne 2016 I think you're way off in terms of talent. Maybe at a stretch, Carlton 2018 v Melbourne 2015 is a better reflection But i expect Carlton in 2019 to have a very similar output to the Melbourne did in 2016 despite Carlton having much more talent on their list in the youth backet than Melbourne did in 2016.

The **** is this shit.

 

[HFF]

Carlton improved dramatically in 2016-17. Very similar to Brisbane. Then we had the worst injury list in the afl and lost experienced leavers on field. Our best players. Exposing plenty of kids too early. No reason to say Bris couldn’t follow a similar path to Carlton. Everyone on here is happy to point out how power Carlton were but discount any reasons behind it. Brisbane however have been in this position before. Still don’t defend well and have just lost beams for Neale while hodge is holding the ship together. Brisbane have convinced us of this before. They’re another bad year away from losing more kids to their home towns.

The worst injury list in the league you reckon?
Collingwood and Adelaide had worse injury lists than you for starters by a fair way.

 

[Moist Biscuit]

I wish I could unread things. Ffs that is the biggest bunch of dribble I have ever had the displeasure of letting my brain consume. TooBlue14

 

[radiojake]

GC twice
Saints once
Fremantle
Dogs once
North
Brisb (in melb)
Adel (at the G)

Plenty of others I cold suggest but you wouldn't believe me. lol

Look anything can happen on the day but yes Carlton will produce over a 100 pt turn around on Adelaide

I guess you gotta believe at this stage otherwise what is the point?

 

[ok.crows]

You'd better hope that you guys put in a better effort than the last time Crows played you.
165-61.....lol.

Not at the G. Where we play our best footy and you play your worst. Not even taking into account Coll Ess and Rich games where we play our best footy.

The last meeting between Adelaide and Carlton was in Melbourne, at Ethihad. Adelaide won by 104 points. In a year where a great deal went wrong for both of these sides, especially injury wise, Adelaide nevertheless still managed to win 12 games whereas Carlton only managed two wins.

 

[Dez!]

The **** is this shit.

I wish I could unread things. Ffs that is the biggest bunch of dribble I have ever had the displeasure of letting my brain consume. TooBlue14

It is quite laughable, there's a reason they won two games and the only addition with proven value is Docherty and assuming he's just going to come back from an ACL and be the player he was right away is wishful thinking.

McGovern is a decent recruit but he was hardly setting the world on fire in a team that is far superior to Carlton.

Carlton will improve but it's delusional to think they are going from the 2 win mess they were in 2018 to an 8 win team in 2019, they should be rapt if they get 5 wins next year.

 

[Ambrosia]

It is quite laughable, there's a reason they won two games and the only addition with proven value is Docherty and assuming he's just going to come back from an ACL and be the player he was right away is wishful thinking.

McGovern is a decent recruit but he was hardly setting the world on fire in a team that is far superior to Carlton.

Carlton will improve but it's delusional to think they are going from the 2 win mess they were in 2018 to an 8 win team in 2019, they should be rapt if they get 5 wins next year.

Stranger things have happened but I agree.

I think Carlton fans are sucked in by there 2017 form and are writing off 2018 as an aberration. What they forget about 2017 is Gibbs is gone, Murphy is now cooked, Docherty is coming off an ACL, Kreuzer is struggling with injury, Kade Simpson is 2 years older and Matthew Wright is who was a contributor in 2017 is now retired .