Where Will the Improvement Come From?

[threenewpadlocks]

Could you please expand on this one?

To put it simply, he is an offensively-minded, outside, creative player who had to play under a defensive, inside-oriented, not-creative-but-methodical type of coach.
I'm not saying that one or the other is less good or bad or correct than the other, however, don't take this as a means of having a go at the coaching style. I'm just saying some coaching styles benefit some players more than others because the coaching style is different to the type of player that they are.
On the other hand, there are some players who I reckon won't benefit from a new coach and its system, those who thrive of the inside-oriented and dour style of the coach - Liberatore, Smith, even Koby Stevens.

 

[Bazza Bulldog]

Not to mention Crameri, Wood, A. Cordy all having another 7 years left.

Agreed with nearly everything you said and love your positivity. Boy I hope you're right about the bolded phrase above, BUT if we have another 7 years of the same with Ayce and he's still on the list ...

 

[Bazza Bulldog]

To put it simply, he is an offensively-minded, outside, creative player who had to play under a defensive, inside-oriented, not-creative-but-methodical type of coach.
I'm not saying that one or the other is less good or bad or correct than the other, however, don't take this as a means of having a go at the coaching style. I'm just saying some coaching styles benefit some players more than others because the coaching style is different to the type of player that they are.
On the other hand, there are some players who I reckon won't benefit from a new coach and its system, those who thrive of the inside-oriented and dour style of the coach - Liberatore, Smith, even Koby Stevens.

There is an assumption here that the new coach will be promoting offensive, creativity and outside players. One - we need to find a coach first before concluding this. I agree with your assessment of Maccas focus in his 3 years, but also don't we want our coach to push the players to be skilled in both of these areas?

 

[DylanW]

Having a fit Clay Smith will add a little.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

There is an assumption here that the new coach will be promoting offensive, creativity and outside players. One - we need to find a coach first before concluding this. I agree with your assessment of Maccas focus in his 3 years, but also don't we want our coach to push the players to be skilled in both of these areas?

I'm making the educated assumption that the selection panel will try something different and will not go for a similar sytle-oriented coach.

 

[Proffessor]

Coaching obviously!

Regardless of who we get as coach it is extremely difficult to imagine anyone doing a worse job than McCartney, who will go down in history as one of the worst coaches of all time. Unfortunately he has left the list almost bereft of senior players, so it will be a tricky hand for the new coach to play.

Still, having someone actually trying to win games in the season that we are playing in rather than worrying about winning games in a future season would be a very good start. Picking a team that has some semblance of structure and balance will also be a major improvement that I'm anticipating.

I'm excited about the prospect of actually getting a match committee that is capable of selecting a best 22 that might actually our best 22, and I'm sure the players would be looking forward to such an improvement as well.

 

[dogwatch]

Improvement must come chiefly from those who were under-performing, not playing, still developing or injured in 2014. We can't realistically look for big improvements in players like Libba and Macrae who are coming off stellar seasons.

Under-performers:
Grant, Talia, Cordy. Of these Talia looks the one most likely to come good, because he was obviously at odds with the coach and not given much senior opportunity. We saw what he was capable of in 2013. A.Cordy was an improver in 2014 and could surprise to become a regular best 22. However I don't think he will be a star so the net benefit we will get as a team (e.g. from having Cordy instead of Jones at CHF) is probably marginal. I've pretty much given up waiting for Grant. His best is very good but I'm sceptical we will see much of it, if any.

Not playing in 2014:
Boyd, Biggs, Zaine Cordy and any other draftees. Tom Boyd should make a difference, even in his second season. I expect he will have some games where he does not directly influence the result a lot but his presence will alter our structure, the way we deliver inside 50 and the way opponents defend. I'm hopeful but not putting huge expectations on Biggs. We've got to remember he is a cast-off rookie who has only played 3 senior games. Will need time. Z.Cordy will be doing well to get 3-4 games. No expectations of the other draftees in their first year.

Still developing:
Quite a few here but the main candidates are Wallis, Bontempelli, Stringer, Macrae, Roberts, Honeychurch, Hrovat, Hunter, Darley, Johannisen, Redpath, Campbell and Jong. Without discussing each in detail, I think Wallis, Stringer and Hrovat are the ones whose seasonal improvement will benefit us most. As much as I love watching Bontempelli and Macrae I think Stringer is the one likely to become the best out of all of them. Most of these players are a fair way from playing 50 games, which is when they will start having more consistent impact on matches but I think Stringer has the class and Hrovat has the skills and application to start making a regular impact in 2014. Wallis has played 50+ games already. I'm very tempted to add Bonty as a source of improvement because he is an exceptional talent but I think he will do well just to match his first season and he may well suffer second year blues. Patience is required.

Injured in 2014:
The main injured were Dickson, Smith and Roughead. Even though Roughead played 15 games it seemed to me that he was a good deal less than 100% fit for many of them. I expect we will see an improved version in 2015. If Smith gets on the park it probably won't be until the second half of the season, so no expectations there. Dickson will do better than he did in 2014 and should play quite a few senior games but I don't see us getting a huge boost out of him.


In summary I expect our improvement will mainly come from: Talia, T.Boyd, Wallis, Stringer, Hrovat and Roughead.


To get the full benefit of this improvement (which I hope will more than compensate for losing Griffen) we need Libba, Macrae, Murphy, Dahlhaus, Morris, Wood and Minson to maintain their form from 2014. And not too many injuries please.

 

[Bazza Bulldog]

Coaching obviously!

Regardless of who we get as coach it is extremely difficult to imagine anyone doing a worse job than McCartney, who will go down in history as one of the worst coaches of all time. Unfortunately he has left the list almost bereft of senior players, so it will be a tricky hand for the new coach to play.

I'm excited about the prospect of actually getting a match committee that is capable of selecting a best 22 that might actually our best 22, and I'm sure the players would be looking forward to such an improvement as well.

I do agree with the statement in bold. However, it would be nice to see you make a prediction of some description re: players. You've used a thread about the future to remain stuck in the past and dig the knife in again. Any thoughts on the players and who might improve and have a breakout season?

 

[TempleKelvington]

2015 could be a hard year in reality. Big list shake up, lost some good players and a lot of experience. We also lost the coach.

So far we have added 3 kids. All have promise. We go to the draft and the rookie draft and we will get more kids and perhaps a mature ager or 2.

A lot will thrust onto a very young list. Many are just in their 2 or 3 rd year. Structurally we should be better served with the inclusion of Boyd, but also with the possibility a new coach will give games to the young talls. But again they are still young.

The improvement will come from a new coach breathing fresh enthusiasm and a new game plan into an exciting list of kids. The midfield is full of good kids and the depth is good too, but will be tested more this year as a result of departures. Better team structure and better skills might see us get reward for the midfield dominance we often have and youthful promise will balance out the dearly departed, but I'm not sure it sees us improving win\loss enough to be top 8 candidate,unless the kids step up big time.

The loss of Cooney and Griffen should hurt us short term, it will be an interesting season, very little will be expected from us so we have that in our favour although big tweety will cop it all year unless he is a standout.

The coach, structure, fresh start and a talented bunch of kids is where the improvement will come from.

 

[Yoda_]

yoda you are clearly too sane, objective and balanced to be a Bomber supporter. You are wasted at Windy Hill. Come on over to VUWO!

Spot on, Yoda_.

Sorry, that entire post is wasted because only did you misspell Luke Dahlhaus, you invented about the hundredth new way of spelling it - never seen it spelt Dalhause before

Thanks guys. Don't you worry, being a Bombers supporter especially in the last 24 months has been one of the hardest things I've ever needed to do in life. Lost friendships over it that is how sad and pathetic some people take sport. After all, it is only a game and I like so many others enjoy AFL as a whole.

Great post Yoda...showed quite a bit of insight - but is it revisionist history that you don't mention the loss of Cooney and can't find a spot anywhere in the Dogs team for Crameri? Pulling you leg but I did find that amusing - surprised you mentioned Tory Dickson or Tom Campbell on that basis

To be honest, I had completely forgotten about Crameri whilst leaving Cooney out was an oversight on my behalf.

Agree with Yoda_ a lot here. Think we need a few more highly skilled players to fill the void with Griffen and Cooney leaving I think a Toby McLean (his beep and time trail as good as the mids and in some cases better) and/or a Connor Menadue could do this and maybe back up in the rookie draft in case Smith and Prudden stay eternally injured I'd lean towards Taylor Grace or Caleb Hislop as this. A mature defender would be nice maybe as rookie and a developing no 1 ruck like a Pittonet or Kovacevic or a state leaguer.

The improvement will come when the high level ball users we take at the draft come through to fill the voids (hence I'm looking for guys who have good fitness bases) and when our kids in the middle start to push aside Matthew Boyd

Agree with Yoda_ a lot here. Think we need a few more highly skilled players to fill the void with Griffen and Cooney leaving I think a Toby McLean (his beep and time trail as good as the mids and in some cases better) and/or a Connor Menadue could do this and maybe back up in the rookie draft in case Smith and Prudden stay eternally injured I'd lean towards Taylor Grace or Caleb Hislop as this. A mature defender would be nice maybe as rookie and a developing no 1 ruck like a Pittonet or Kovacevic or a state leaguer.

The improvement will come when the high level ball users we take at the draft come through to fill the voids (hence I'm looking for guys who have good fitness bases) and when our kids in the middle start to push aside Matthew Boyd

If you are looking to fill those voids left by Cooney, Grif & even Tutt along with the high turnover you have already encountered with draftee's you are going to be in for a tough 2015.

The improvement should be coming from those second - fourth year guys outside your best 22. The likes of Mitch Honeychurch, Daniel Pearce, Josh Prudden.


To be honest, I can see you guys going for a number of mature aged midfielders, maybe even a delisted free agent to help aid/protect the kids even at VFL level. If kids are left to lead kids you will end up having a situation similar to Melbourne that has left that club a bumbling mess for close to a decade.

 

[Wizard17]

I don't know many mature age prospects really Yoda_ more of a Tac Cup under 18's watcher I would really would like out second-fourth year guys to stand up in saying that though our recent draftees apart from Fuller have come on very quickly if that trend continues we could have a good chance of nailing a few of those guys in the national draft.

 

[Yoda_]

I don't know many mature age prospects really Yoda_ more of a Tac Cup under 18's watcher I would really would like out second-fourth year guys to stand up in saying that though our recent draftees apart from Fuller have come on very quickly if that trend continues we could have a good chance of nailing a few of those guys in the national draft.

I see a fair bit of VFL football. What type of midfielders were you after? Not sure there are to many genuine outside midfielders worth taking from the VFL. As for inside midfielders, Essendon VFL product Dan Coughlan is every chance to be drafted having gone to the state combine (3 clubs need to nominated you). As a hardworking (runs a 14.7 beep test) inside midfielder he showed his wares in one game kicking 4 goals along with 20 odd possessions to underline his statue as both an inside and outside burst player (speed hurt though with a 3.18 20m time).

 

[Wizard17]

I'm looking for skilled types hopefully with a bit of speed ccause our midfield looks slow especially in the middle.

I see a fair bit of VFL football. What type of midfielders were you after? Not sure there are to many genuine outside midfielders worth taking from the VFL. As for inside midfielders, Essendon VFL product Dan Coughlan is every chance to be drafted having gone to the state combine (3 clubs need to nominated you). As a hardworking (runs a 14.7 beep test) inside midfielder he showed his wares in one game kicking 4 goals along with 20 odd possessions to underline his statue as both an inside and outside burst player (speed hurt though with a 3.18 20m time).

 

[Proffessor]

I do agree with the statement in bold. However, it would be nice to see you make a prediction of some description re: players. You've used a thread about the future to remain stuck in the past and dig the knife in again. Any thoughts on the players and who might improve and have a breakout season?

The OP doesn't say which players do I expect to improve. It says where will our improvement come from.
Our problems in recent years have not been primarily player based, they have been coach/match committee based. Unfortunately our playing list for the 2015 season is looking weaker than our playing list for 2014, which could negatively impact on our results. There is a lot of opportunity for improvement for individual payers, but that improvement will be almost incidental to having an improved brains trust.

 

[Bazza Bulldog]

The OP doesn't say which players do I expect to improve. It says where will our improvement come from.
Our problems in recent years have not been primarily player based, they have been coach/match committee based. Unfortunately our playing list for the 2015 season is looking weaker than our playing list for 2014, which could negatively impact on our results. There is a lot of opportunity for improvement for individual payers, but that improvement will be almost incidental to having an improved brains trust.

The two teams that are clearly stronger than the rest of the comp at the moment are Sydney and Hawthorn. Both teams have excellent coaches, they also have outstanding leaders. The later is something I don't think we have had since Johnno and Darcy retired. There needs to by synergy between the coaching, player leadership and playing group. However, I don't think strong player leadership and players taking responsibility for continuously improving in an elite sporting competition should be as closely connected to the coaching group as you do. I think LT we now have a group of young players who could be very strong leaders (Bonts and Boyd in particular). Gia saying at the B&F that he has learned more from Macca in 3 years, than in the previous 12 collectively, says to me that our problems in 2014 are not just all about the coach(s).

 

[cleveland]

The two teams that are clearly stronger than the rest of the comp at the moment are Sydney and Hawthorn. Both teams have excellent coaches, they also have outstanding leaders. The later is something I don't think we have had since Johnno and Darcy retired. There needs to by synergy between the coaching, player leadership and playing group. However, I don't think strong player leadership and players taking responsibility for continuously improving in an elite sporting competition should be as closely connected to the coaching group as you do. I think LT we now have a group of young players who could be very strong leaders (Bonts and Boyd in particular). Gia saying at the B&F that he has learned more from Macca in 3 years, than in the previous 12 collectively, says to me that our problems in 2014 are not just all about the coach(s).

Gia is talking shit

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Gia is talking shit

Maybe not.
Maybe he did learn stuff, and learnt a lot, but it just wasn't very effective in winning games of footy.

 

[Bazza Bulldog]

Gia is talking shit

Yeh ... probably so are the Geelong guys who came across (not to mention Ling, Harley ... who also sing his praises) with 3 premierships. Macca as a senior coach has failed (ultimately not in dispute from me now). As someone who can teach the game ... yes he can for those willing to listen, learn and act.

 

[cleveland]

Yeh ... probably so are the Geelong guys who came across (not to mention Ling, Harley ... who also sing his praises) with 3 premierships. Macca as a senior coach has failed (ultimately not in dispute from me now). As someone who can teach the game ... yes he can for those willing to listen, learn and act.

ive got no doubt he can teach the game one on one as a developer as I did like him in this regard..but he simply cant coach a team well at Afl standard

 

[the conch]

To put it simply, he is an offensively-minded, outside, creative player who had to play under a defensive, inside-oriented, not-creative-but-methodical type of coach.
I'm not saying that one or the other is less good or bad or correct than the other, however, don't take this as a means of having a go at the coaching style. I'm just saying some coaching styles benefit some players more than others because the coaching style is different to the type of player that they are.
On the other hand, there are some players who I reckon won't benefit from a new coach and its system, those who thrive of the inside-oriented and dour style of the coach - Liberatore, Smith, even Koby Stevens.

Dunno about Koby. Makes good position as link up man very often. Liked his effort.

 

[the conch]

I suspect Grant might be one of those players who will be providing the quicker ball movement to the forward line.
Probably a bit out there to think this, but I see him playing more midfield time next season.

Grant on a wing or half forward - give him space and cover. Like to think he could be a massive improver

 

[Mattdougie]

Im not sure we can improve on this year thanks to Macca pushing more senior players out of the club and the only KPF we had but in the end of we do it will simply be better coaching and selection and hopefully less excuses and spin

 

[JTCWBFC]

I read on Facebook the other day that Dogs team that took on the Gold Coast in Round 17 was minus a lot of the players we have removed this off season.

Watching the replay of this game there is some very good, quick football combined with some really good hard ball being won.

Looking at the team sheet from this game:

B

• Liam Picken,
  
• Jordan Roughead,
  
• Mark Austin

HB

• Robert Murphy,
  
• Dale Morris,
  
• Easton Wood

C

• Sam Darley,
  
• Matthew Boyd,
  
• Mitch Wallis

HF

• Jake Stringer,
  
• Stewart Crameri,
  
• Jack Macrae

F

• Luke Dahlhaus,
  
• Jack Redpath,
  
• Nathan Hrovat

FOL

• Will Minson,
  
• Koby Stevens,
  
• Tom Liberatore

I/C

• Marcus Bontempelli,
  
• Lachie Hunter,
  
• Jason Johannisen

SUB

• Mitch Honeychurch

I would have thought this is close to our team for next year save for the following changes:

Out: Austin

In: Talia/Fletcher

Out: Darley/Honeychurch

In: Boyd

I recommend if you want to see what this team is capable of you re-watch this game, pretty exciting in my eyes.

 

[timtamWB]

I read on Facebook the other day that Dogs team that took on the Gold Coast in Round 17 was minus a lot of the players we have removed this off season.

Watching the replay of this game there is some very good, quick football combined with some really good hard ball being won.

Looking at the team sheet from this game:

B

• Liam Picken,
  
• Jordan Roughead,
  
• Mark Austin

HB

• Robert Murphy,
  
• Dale Morris,
  
• Easton Wood

C

• Sam Darley,
  
• Matthew Boyd,
  
• Mitch Wallis

HF

• Jake Stringer,
  
• Stewart Crameri,
  
• Jack Macrae

F

• Luke Dahlhaus,
  
• Jack Redpath,
  
• Nathan Hrovat

FOL

• Will Minson,
  
• Koby Stevens,
  
• Tom Liberatore

I/C

• Marcus Bontempelli,
  
• Lachie Hunter,
  
• Jason Johannisen

SUB

• Mitch Honeychurch

I would have thought this is close to our team for next year save for the following changes:

Out: Austin

In: Talia/Fletcher

Out: Darley/Honeychurch

In: Boyd

I recommend if you want to see what this team is capable of you re-watch this game, pretty exciting in my eyes.

It pleases me that only 3-4 of these players will be gone in the next couple of years, and the majority of them are youngsters. Also sub anyone in for Austin and it makes it a better team as well.

 

[Dav1d]

the improvement will hopefully come from the new coaching panel