Analysis Which clubs deserve a priority pick?

[marty36]

I think it's hilarious all of the other club supporters and coaches whinging about Carlton's trade strategy, particularly ironic when Chris Scott was having his dig. I didn't see Geelong complaining when they got Zac Tuohy and Lachie Henderson in a trade, nor were Adelaide upset when they pried a contracted Bryce Gibbs from us. Our strategy has benefited teams that saw themselves in a Premiership window, so you can't have it both ways. Don't be upset when we're terrible and asking for assistance when you've directly benefited from our demise.

The club has definitely made mistakes, but no club that finds themselves on the bottom of the ladder for an extended period of time got there without making mistakes. So the old trope of 'they only have themselves to blame' just doesn't cut it. The club has committed to changing the operating culture, no more quick fixes and attempts to buy success. The only way to build for sustained success is through the draft, and one pick in every 18 isn't going to achieve that. None of the clubs (bar maybe West Coast) that are vying for a Premiership this year have gotten there without assistance from the AFL be it through priority picks or generous FA compensation.

At the end of the day, a PP is not really going to affect any of the other clubs, but it will substantially assist in Carlton's rebuild.

Some clubs have never been assisted, Adelaide hasn't had a top 10 pick in 13 years but managed to make the GF last year, they aren't the only club to play within the rules . the eastern state clubs have a huge disadvantage but getting the handicap system right is a job in itself for them. All Vic, SA and WA simply should not be assisted what so ever, don't care who, if anyone the smaller clubs like the bullies or North, but Carlton were a powerhouse bad management has put them where they are at

 

[Alas Smith]

Some clubs have never been assisted, Adelaide hasn't had a top 10 pick in 13 years but managed to make the GF last year, they aren't the only club to play within the rules . the eastern state clubs have a huge disadvantage but getting the handicap system right is a job in itself for them. All Vic, SA and WA simply should not be assisted what so ever, don't care who, if anyone the smaller clubs like the bullies or North, but Carlton were a powerhouse bad management has put them where they are at

Draft cheating? Tippett says hi.

 

[Runk]

Surely Hawthorn deserve a priority pick? And Geelong.

 

[IanW]

The AFL could buy a block near the beach and training ground, build an apartment complex on it and then miraculously all the Gold Coast players can live in a really nice place that they don't pay for.

The Breakfast Point Internment Camp the Lamberts ran was an important part of GWS having the player retention it did.

You might laugh about it, but if you want to build a more successful expansion club than Freo, it's one of the things you need to do.

 

[Triniboy]

Like you can talk.. Walker, Murphy and Kreuzer were all handed to you. Enough is enough.

They weren’t PP

 

[Triniboy]

Priority Pick should be scrapped, absolute farce.

There are deeper issues at GC that no amount of picks will fix, Brisbane were great this year.. very young list and competed well against top 8 sides, Carlton have so many first round draft picks running around, not sure Bolton is the right coach for them.

I agree with yr later comment

 

[Triniboy]

It's fairly obvious, PP aren't the panacea to winning a premiership


Rather than rehash what happened 15 years ago and the rules that were in place then, how about coming up with some justification why your club in particular should get a PP.
Is it because under SOS your playing list has gone backwards? Or do you think it has improved?
Is it the number of young players that need games put into them?
Is it because of the number of senior players traded out for draft picks which has left gaping holes in the player/experience/age demographic?
Is it development?
Is it coaching?

I'd be interested in Carlton posters addressing any of those questions rather than naming clubs that have previously been given a PP. Which only goes to show they haven't any answers as to why they should get a PP. Just that "other clubs got them, so we should too" Hardly a convincing argument for the AFL Commissioners.

2,3 & 5.

 

[Jell]

Some clubs have never been assisted, Adelaide hasn't had a top 10 pick in 13 years but managed to make the GF last year, they aren't the only club to play within the rules . the eastern state clubs have a huge disadvantage but getting the handicap system right is a job in itself for them. All Vic, SA and WA simply should not be assisted what so ever, don't care who, if anyone the smaller clubs like the bullies or North, but Carlton were a powerhouse bad management has put them where they are at

Yet 5 of the 6 teams still in the race for the Premiership have benefited from Priority Picks or very generous compensation picks (Melbourne).

And don’t get me wrong, i’m not saying it can’t done, West Coast are proving that this year, but most teams advantage in one way or the other from equalisation measures. If Carlton weren’t aggressive in the rebuild, you wouldn’t have got Bryce Gibbs last year, Geelong wouldn’t have Tuohy or Henderson. And if we get a PP this year, chances are that’s heading straight to you guys for Mitch McGovern, so again, you will benefit also.

 

[marty36]

Yet 5 of the 6 teams still in the race for the Premiership have benefited from Priority Picks or very generous compensation picks (Melbourne).

And don’t get me wrong, i’m not saying it can’t done, West Coast are proving that this year, but most teams advantage in one way or the other from equalisation measures. If Carlton weren’t aggressive in the rebuild, you wouldn’t have got Bryce Gibbs last year, Geelong wouldn’t have Tuohy or Henderson. And if we get a PP this year, chances are that’s heading straight to you guys for Mitch McGovern, so again, you will benefit also.

No one has to trade, gibbs was contracted it was your choice. If you want to try and rebuild your choice on how you do it, its been mentioned before look at the players you have let go to Adelaide alone, Betts,Jacobs, Gibbs they were just bad decisions. You shouldn't be compensated for bad decisions.

 

[Jell]

No one has to trade, gibbs was contracted it was your choice. If you want to try and rebuild your choice on how you do it, its been mentioned before look at the players you have let go to Adelaide alone, Betts,Jacobs, Gibbs they were just bad decisions. You shouldn't be compensated for bad decisions.

Literally every team that is on the bottom of the ladder for an extended period is there because of bad decisions. Bad decisions in the past are irrelevant, and the Betts and Jacobs scenarios both happened prior to the current club management. I think the more important factor when determining compensation is whether a club is putting measures in place to ensure that past mistakes aren't repeated.

 

[Schraderbrau]

I think it's hilarious all of the other club supporters and coaches whinging about Carlton's trade strategy, particularly ironic when Chris Scott was having his dig. I didn't see Geelong complaining when they got Zac Tuohy and Lachie Henderson in a trade, nor were Adelaide upset when they pried a contracted Bryce Gibbs from us. Our strategy has benefited teams that saw themselves in a Premiership window, so you can't have it both ways. Don't be upset when we're terrible and asking for assistance when you've directly benefited from our demise.

The club has definitely made mistakes, but no club that finds themselves on the bottom of the ladder for an extended period of time got there without making mistakes. So the old trope of 'they only have themselves to blame' just doesn't cut it. The club has committed to changing the operating culture, no more quick fixes and attempts to buy success. The only way to build for sustained success is through the draft, and one pick in every 18 isn't going to achieve that. None of the clubs (bar maybe West Coast) that are vying for a Premiership this year have gotten there without assistance from the AFL be it through priority picks or generous FA compensation.

At the end of the day, a PP is not really going to affect any of the other clubs, but it will substantially assist in Carlton's rebuild.

I don't think its a double standard for clubs profiting from Carlton's negligence to be then critical of their demands to be rewarded for that negligence. It's just business.

The quick fix never helped much but you seem to have overlooked the massive impact that the tanking era had on your football club. Clubs, other than Carlton, don't tank anymore because they saw the damage to culture that such strategies did to Melbourne and Carlton (indeed its taken Melbourne almost a decade to repair that damage).

It's depressing, though not surprising, to see Carlton again cynically trying to manipulate the system to its advantage and at the same time making the same mistakes that got them into this position in the first place.

 

[Jell]

I don't think its a double standard for clubs profiting from Carlton's negligence to be then critical of their demands to be rewarded for that negligence. It's just business.

The quick fix never helped much but you seem to have overlooked the massive impact that the tanking era had on your football club. Clubs, other than Carlton, don't tank anymore because they saw the damage to culture that such strategies did to Melbourne and Carlton (indeed its taken Melbourne almost a decade to repair that damage).

It's depressing, though not surprising, to see Carlton again cynically trying to manipulate the system to its advantage and at the same time making the same mistakes that got them into this position in the first place.

There's no system to 'manipulate' anymore, it's up to AFL discretion, unlike when Collingwood bottomed out for the whole of 1 season to cash in on the old PP rules and land Thomas and Pendelbery.

If you think we're deliberately playing poorly or bottoming out solely to appeal to the sympathies of the AFL, you should probably look at all the 'favours' the AFL have done for us in the past...you know, like decimating our club for salary cap breaches when other clubs got a slap on the wrist.

People were critical when we tried to buy success in the past, now they're critical when we try a legitimate rebuild. The AFL surely realise they've created inequalities with Free Agency, so there needs to be ways for them to make more teams competitive. No one had a sook when Brisbane got a PP a couple of seasons ago, no one will care too much if the Gold Coast get one this year, and both clubs made significant mistakes that put them in the situations they were in. Now Brisbane are growing stronger and that's a great thing for the competition. Gold Coast will take a lot more time and effort, but it can happen. Hopefully we'll start to show the same improvement as Brisbane is and a PP will go a long way to achieving that, even if it's only an end of first round pick, which can be used on bringing in some established talent. At the of the day, a more competitive league is a win for everyone.

 

[bmaurizio]

No one has to trade, gibbs was contracted it was your choice. If you want to try and rebuild your choice on how you do it, its been mentioned before look at the players you have let go to Adelaide alone, Betts,Jacobs, Gibbs they were just bad decisions. You shouldn't be compensated for bad decisions.[/

Prima facie you right, but we all know it works. Once a player is disenfranchised he's no longer a contributor. There are a real problems with e synergy in Crow land hope you sort it out.

 

[IanW]

Now Brisbane are growing stronger and that's a great thing for the competition. Gold Coast will take a lot more time and effort, but it can happen.

An important part of Brisbane's rebuild was them picking up experienced but inexpensive players with a bit left in the tank who could help.

Guys like Mitch Robinson, who they signed from Carlton.

Actually, the whole Exers side is full of marginal but useful players like that.

Go thru the Exers thread on the Bay, look at the Pond Scum, and see what players are around like those who could help Carlton.

Alternatively, look at GWS's NEAFL side, and realise there isnt much left, and SoS can't pick talent anyway.

 

[marty36]

Literally every team that is on the bottom of the ladder for an extended period is there because of bad decisions. Bad decisions in the past are irrelevant, and the Betts and Jacobs scenarios both happened prior to the current club management. I think the more important factor when determining compensation is whether a club is putting measures in place to ensure that past mistakes aren't repeated.

You get yourself into that position, you need to get yourself out of it.

The eastern states clubs have a battle more so than any other with the go home factor and non footy states any Victorian club or SA or WA club that are struggling only have themselves to blame, especially one as large as Carlton

 

[marty36]

There's no system to 'manipulate' anymore, it's up to AFL discretion, unlike when Collingwood bottomed out for the whole of 1 season to cash in on the old PP rules and land Thomas and Pendelbery.

If you think we're deliberately playing poorly or bottoming out solely to appeal to the sympathies of the AFL, you should probably look at all the 'favours' the AFL have done for us in the past...you know, like decimating our club for salary cap breaches when other clubs got a slap on the wrist.

People were critical when we tried to buy success in the past, now they're critical when we try a legitimate rebuild. The AFL surely realise they've created inequalities with Free Agency, so there needs to be ways for them to make more teams competitive. No one had a sook when Brisbane got a PP a couple of seasons ago, no one will care too much if the Gold Coast get one this year, and both clubs made significant mistakes that put them in the situations they were in. Now Brisbane are growing stronger and that's a great thing for the competition. Gold Coast will take a lot more time and effort, but it can happen. Hopefully we'll start to show the same improvement as Brisbane is and a PP will go a long way to achieving that, even if it's only an end of first round pick, which can be used on bringing in some established talent. At the of the day, a more competitive league is a win for everyone.

Is a more competitive league a win for everyone, I like other teams other than my own to be on the bottom as do all those supporters of competitive teams

 

[Jell]

Is a more competitive league a win for everyone, I like other teams other than my own to be on the bottom as do all those supporters of competitive teams

So you're satisfied that your team has only won a premiership 3 years more recently than Carlton? Happy with the status quo that you're good, but ultimately not good enough? Surely you would want your team to have every chance at winning a premiership, so why shouldn't other supporters want the same?

 

[LOZWILDA]

Handing out early priority picks encourages lower teams to lose graciously(tank), play kids, etc. It totally goes against equalisation by causing midfield teams to stay midfield and lower teams avoiding older players(free agents) to make them more competitive in some cases.
Brisbane bucked the trend and already look better for it!

 

[Jell]

Handing out early priority picks encourages lower teams to lose graciously(tank), play kids, etc. It totally goes against equalisation by causing midfield teams to stay midfield and lower teams avoiding older players(free agents) to make them more competitive in some cases.
Brisbane bucked the trend and already look better for it!

I think the days of early PP's are definitely gone, but an end of first round pick isn't incentive enough for teams to tank, but it's also useful enough to assist in a rebuild.

 

[marty36]

I think the days of early PP's are definitely gone, but an end of first round pick isn't incentive enough for teams to tank, but it's also useful enough to assist in a rebuild.

If your team is bottom, you are either paying too much for hacks or something is fundamentally wrong at your club, Richmond will start feeling pressure if they win the flag this year in retaining their squad because of the cap.

The salary cap is the evener surely you cant be 18th paying the same money to the players that are at a club that's 1st.

 

[pinot]

If your team is bottom, you are either paying too much for hacks or something is fundamentally wrong at your club, Richmond will start feeling pressure if they win the flag this year in retaining their squad because of the cap.

The salary cap is the evener surely you cant be 18th paying the same money to the players that are at a club that's 1st.

Neither and Neither

Its called a rebuild which funnily enough you missed in your tirade

 

[rog1995]

Surely Hawthorn deserve a priority pick? And Geelong.

Essendon got rewarded with a number one draft pick for the supplements saga. Therefore everyone should be entitled.

 

[rog1995]

If your team is bottom, you are either paying too much for hacks or something is fundamentally wrong at your club, Richmond will start feeling pressure if they win the flag this year in retaining their squad because of the cap.

The salary cap is the evener surely you cant be 18th paying the same money to the players that are at a club that's 1st.

The issue is even when teams are poor they are required to pay a minimum 95% of the salary cap.

 

[zeggie]

No one has to trade

paying too much for hacks or something is fundamentally wrong at your club,

The salary cap is the evener surely you cant be 18th paying the same money to the players that are at a club that's 1st.

Unless you're slipping paper bags and meat pies to Kurt Tippett ey?

 

[marty36]

So is the PPs dead according to Caro

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