Which teams stand between us and back-to-back flags?

[vinum coupe]

Do we even want to contemplate what the Collingwood horde will be like if they even beat us in a final, let alone the big one? They'll make us look like humbler-than-usual lepers in the arrogance stakes.

I caught up with a pies mate of mine last night and he reckons the premiership race is over. The cats have it again.

But he did say that he will never believe the pies are any good until they beat the cats in a final. Last years prelim burns for him. Maybe the whole club is the same?

 

[mcwilrob]

I caught up with a pies mate of mine last night and he reckons the premiership race is over. The cats have it again.

But he did say that he will never believe the pies are any good until they beat the cats in a final. Last years prelim burns for him. Maybe the whole club is the same?

Anyone want to add comment / re-evaluate Collingwood's chances following their demolition of Freo at home (WA)? Especially given they are our next match after Lions. They have been around the mark the last few years (prelim 2009, 2007 etc.). If we had to lose a final they would be the *last* team I would want to lose to...

 

[Narkee]

Anyone want to add comment / re-evaluate Collingwood's chances following their demolition of Freo at home (WA)? Especially given they are our next match after Lions. They have been around the mark the last few years (prelim 2009, 2007 etc.). If we had to lose a final they would be the *last* team I would want to lose to...

They are very quick decision makers and move the ball fast. We need to apply hard tackling pressure in the clinches.

Our bigger bodies should prevail!

 

[krisholio14]

They are very quick decision makers and move the ball fast. We need to apply hard tackling pressure in the clinches.

Our bigger bodies should prevail!

Their bigger bodies is what killed Freo tonight, and I don't think our bodies are that much bigger than theirs these days.

 

[Copernicus]

Their bigger bodies is what killed Freo tonight, and I don't think our bodies are that much bigger than theirs these days.

No, I'd say that the teams aiming for finals have caught up to us there. That's not what will win games against top teams. Pressure will. The Sydney game showed us that we still have it. People often forget what made us so good, and it's not our play-on-at-all-costs style, which is certainly attractive and usually effective, it's our pressure on the man, and our ability to get out in space when we turn the ball over. That's what stood out like dog's balls in 2007, and it stood out again last week. It is our primary strength in my view. Having bigger bodies is part of it, but even against big-bodied teams like St Kilda we will have the advantage if we play like we did against St Kilda. Who can counter that if we're hot?

 

[TheCattery2007]

NONE!!!

Too cocky??? Probably.

I don't like it when we play the Pies and the Hawks, my most nervous games. Also the teams that I want to beat more than any other. Both teams seem to play pretty well against us - are the Hawks gone for the season? (I will be hoping for a couple more losses to see them buried). I think we can cover the Dogs (although I expect them to get their mojo back later in the season). Saints are in real strife without Roo, even if he comes back late in the season, doubt he'll have the same impact. I imagine Freo's young guns will tire towards the end of the season.

So, next week will say a lot. If we beat the Pies comfortably then I will be feeling pretty good about our B2B prospects. But keeping the lid on (barely)...

 

[WindShear]

Collingwood are firing atm, but as much as I hate them, they aren't my main concern, come finals I really do genuinely believe you need one or two superstars in your team as they generally are the difference in big games, and they don't have any out and out stars, you can have your 7-8 goals victories over the last 4 weeks but it mean squat come finals time.

St.Kilda with Riewoldt back firing will still be the team to beat I feel, they are in a rough patch atm and are down on confidence but they have too many quality players to be down for long, they will still finish top 4

The Bulldogs are still a long way from showing any consistency

 

[ninjacat]

Danger is that Collingwood might finally have the belief they need. If they beat us at least once this year they will consider themselves worthy of a flag and could go all the way.

They are doing it without glamour. Mick has a large group of good players, and they have to work harder to stay in the side, whereas we have a core group that will rarely get dropped and it's the injured and fringe players that get rotated, as well as a few key players being rested from time to time.

They are winning games by backing themselves and taking plenty of risks, the way we did in 2007. They are doing it by hard running in numbers - last night there just always seemed to be plenty of Pies at the ball - you can't do this without working very hard. We are going to have to pull out our A game to match it with them. Do guys like Mackie and Stevie J, the gys that never get dropped, have the resolve to play like this all the way through the season or are they happy to rest on their premiership medallions and cruise occasionally? Because if they do, we are going to lose more games than we expect and lesser sides will smell blood.

After 7 rounds, the competition has largely shown what is it capable of and now we know sides like Freo and Carlton are not just a bunch of hacks but capable of playing good football. Collingwood just have to prove themselves in finals now.

Last year in the finals, they were missing Pendlebury and had no Ball, our midfield were always going to overun them. This year it's more evenly matched.

Cats just have to show the hunger. After two flags it might be waning - I really hope that is not the case.

 

[Brent24]

If you guys still have the hunger, you'll be tough to beat this year. I think the top 4 from last year are the only contenders again this year (assuming Riewoldt comes back ok for the Saints, otherwise they're in trouble).

Still a lot of question marks over the Pies. We need to start beating the Saints/Cats to be a genuine shot. I don't subscribe to this bs that we fall down in the finals, we just haven't had a good enough side to win a flag in previous years. We've improved more than the other top 4 sides from last year, not sure if it's enough though.

 

[InnocentBystandr]

Yep, Collingwood are looking the goods ATM. They are very much a 'champion team' rather than a 'team of champions' (like we were a couple of years ago). Next Friday night will have all eyes on it, and we are no certs to win by any stretch. In fact, I believe a win will mean more to Collingwood than us and they will want it more (I hope I'm wrong).

From a strategic perspective, while a loss to Collingwood give them confidence over us in September, they would be the 'June Premiers' with all the pressure and expectation that goes with that.

I just hope the hard ground at the Gabba doesn't result in any injuries to our guys tonight.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

They are very quick decision makers and move the ball fast. We need to apply hard tackling pressure in the clinches.

Our bigger bodies should prevail!

They had 90 tackles last night, and traditionally when they bring that level of pressure, they challenge us, and when they don't, we win.

So assuming they do, we need to at least match them in that area.

Can't wait for friday night!

 

[Selective Retention]

The pies bat a lot deeper now, less duds.

They've added Ball and Jolly, and got more improvement from Beams, Sidebottom and Wellingham.

They got a lot of goals last night with free players in the forward 50. I don't think they can get away with running forward of the ball like that against us.

Hopefully we get the business done tonight and the match next week is for top of the table again.

 

[Vdubs]

Pies 2010 = Cats 2007 = Saints 2009?

Adding Jolly and Ball has helped immensely. I'm certainly not expecting to beat them next week- Pies will run over us with our 2 x 6day turnarounds, our depleted rucks will struggle against Jolly and Wood and they are in top form. They do remind me of us in 07.

Not saying we can't beat them in September, but we are yet to play Lions, Pies, Saints, Dogs and have to face Freo, Pies, Hawks and Blues again, so our main concern will be winning enough games to make top 4.

Our last 9 weeks is very challenging so thinking about back to back is highly presumptuous at best, I'd be happy with a rare win in Brisbane tonight. And if we do have some more outs (WOJO, KELLY??) that will be difficult anyway.

At our very best with everybody available, we are superb to watch and the team to beat.

 

[Ashb23]

Sorry mate, but we ARE the best team in the comp. It doesn't matter how much we may like to be politically correct and say we are not, we, at our best, are.
There is a big difference between knowing you're the best and not respecting your opposition.
We should go into every game knowing (as a number of opposition coaches have said) that our best is better than anyone elses. Hell...our worst is better than some teams' best!
Does anyone here not believe that Geelong, fully primed and fit would not destroy Carlton eg if we played them next week?
The only games this group has lost since Rd 5 2007 were.

RD 21 2007: Missing most of our MF. Almost snagged it.
RD 9 2008: Completely disinterested as a group. To their credit, Collingwood set a new benchmark in tackling pressure.
GF 2008: Beaten by a team that wanted it more and who at that time had the talent to match us. That is no longer the case by a long shot.
RD 14 2009: Missing key players and got jumped by the strongest Saints team ever seen. Still almost snagged it.
RD 15 2009: Almost sent a VFL side.
RD 19 2009: Disinterested and tired again. The game that woke us from our slumber.
This year we have learned that after the 2008 disaster and limping into the finals in 2009, we cannot maintain the level of excellence we demand physically and mentally for a pre-season, 22 H & A games and a finals series. The only way was to have an extended 3 month break for senior players over Xmas, which left us vulnerable early, hence a couple of losses, rest injured players at every opportunity. The slightest niggle should not be ignored.
Rotate the kids through to energise the group and show something different.
St Kilda and Hawthorn have suffered dramatically from having Plan A only.

Not sure about this. We struggled against Sydney the week after and then lost to the dogs in round 21. Really, the return of Otto in round 22 woke us from our slumber.

 

[Football God]

Geelong are easily favs for mine, never thought much of freo and showed heir weakness fri night, people called that our season definer, i laughed.

this week is the real 1 vs 2 team for the year, saints look done with no rooey.

I think this will be a battle of the clearances and the pressure.

p.s make a thread so we can talk about the preview on the game!! lol.

good luck lads.

 

[witsend]

Pies 2010 = Cats 2007 = Saints 2009?

Adding Jolly and Ball has helped immensely. I'm certainly not expecting to beat them next week- Pies will run over us with our 2 x 6day turnarounds, our depleted rucks will struggle against Jolly and Wood and they are in top form. They do remind me of us in 07.

Not saying we can't beat them in September, but we are yet to play Lions, Pies, Saints, Dogs and have to face Freo, Pies, Hawks and Blues again, so our main concern will be winning enough games to make top 4.

Our last 9 weeks is very challenging so thinking about back to back is highly presumptuous at best, I'd be happy with a rare win in Brisbane tonight. And if we do have some more outs (WOJO, KELLY??) that will be difficult anyway.

At our very best with everybody available, we are superb to watch and the team to beat.

Nowhere near as much talent....

 

[DanA]

Nowhere near as much talent....

I agree they don't have as much talent but they are the beginning of a very good side I reckon. Sidebottom, Beams and Wellingham are all going to be very good footballers. Backline look solid going forward with Brown and Reid to start to play a more prominant role and forwardline is quickly developing.

I think they are definately the team to watch. Bulldogs don't look as dangerous to me and the rest of the legue to me look a step down. Saints are gone for my money, Reiwoldt will return too late.

 

[MagpieJoel]

To be honest I still look at their team on paper and think they are shit..

This is because you don't know enough about our list. In reality, you'd be completely incorrect.

You guys are still the team to beat, but don't pretend you know a thing about our list.

 

[MagpieJoel]

Too early to call, the Pies are up to their old tricks of April/May premiers.

Ha? We were 3 wins and 5 losses at this stage last year.

 

[Thommo 42]

Key differences for us this year compared to Prelim.

Prelim: No Jolly (or Fraser), Pendles, Ball or Medhurst + Swan injury

In addition, Beams and Sidebottom are improved 2nd year mids, Wellingham has improved, Davis is back in the forward pocket and Ben Reid gives the defence more balance.

In comparison, Geelong missing Ottens, Corey and Rooke.

If we can't beat this weakened Geelong side now, it doesn't look good imo.

 

[Syphoncom]

Tbh what happens on friday should most likely mean nothing. Same as 09 round 13: Saints kick opening 5, Geelong steamroll back but still get beaten. The only thing out of that was that both teams have the capabilities to test oneanother and it was a fairly even game.

Assuming neither team dominates too heavily, the same should be said. Both teams should be top4 come September, both teams should challenge for the premiership.

And on a side note: Carlton. I think people are rating them highly now (well they certainly are), but personally I think it's more a case of every other team being worse than previously expected, not necessarily particular teams being better.

For example:

Saints: Looking shit. Definitely not certain top4 (and most would've had them top2)
Dogs: Definitely fallen away from their premiership hype following Hall+preseason
Lions: ... Need we say more
Hawthorn: Lol. Basket case at the moment. Lucky to get out of the bottom 4.
Adelaide: .... sigh


I definitely think the top 8 of most people pre-season would've included the above 5 and ofcourse Geelong and Collingwood. Now we've got a huge void where these teams should've been (Dogs and Saints to a slightly lesser extent obviously), but we don't have a shitfight for 8th between Port/North/Essendon/Carlton/Fremantle etc.

So naturally any team that's on a bit of a roll like Carlton will be filling that.

So I definitely think Geelong will finish top4, hopefully we will too and we'll see you there

 

[winty]

The 2010 Collingwood side is in a way similar to the Geelong side of 2004. They are so even all over the park, with no distinguishable stars, and have been consistent in their performances thus far this season, just like we were that year. We're probably similar to the Brisbane side of that year too. The Brisbane side had stars all over the park, had been at the top for three years, and were showing signs of slipping.

Having said that, I haven't really seen any obvious signs of us slipping up at all. In fact, I think we're probably stronger this year than we were last year.

The addition of Pods has strengthened our forward line, and Mitch Duncan has added another small forward option, alongside Stokes, Varcoe, Chapman and Byrnes. Mooney seems to have been revitalised playing alongside Pods, and his form thus far is on par with his 2007 season IMO, and SJ is obviously fit again, and the results are obvious.

Our midfield is as strong as ever. Although Corey is missing at the moment, Varcoe is now able to run through there now, and Selwood, Bartel, Ablett and Ling are still a formidable force, and we can run the likes of Stokes, Kelly, Byrnes and Chapman through there as well, so we have plenty of rotations to throw through that area. Blake is serviceable at best in the ruck, and Hawkins has been OK as a back-up, but if we get Otto back a month or so before the finals like he did last year, it could be the final piece in the puzzle. We also have West and Simpson who could provide support in this area, depending on match-ups.

The improvement in Lonergan can't be understated either. I was criticial of his inclusion in the side in Round 1, but he hasn't put a foot wrong thus far this season. Depending on who we play, he can possibly hold down a key defensive spot, freeing up Scarlett to play a more attacking role. Milburn, Taylor and Enright have started the season from where they left off last season. The inclusion of Hunt after 12 months off is massive IMO, and we saw the reason on Saturday night, when his pinpoint accuracy from his kick-outs led to 5 goals being kicked down the other end.

Other teams have improved, especially Collingwood, Carlton and Fremantle, but I truly believe the hunger is still there and if we're able to keep the majority of our list fit leading into September, we will go all the way.

 

[Vdubs]

Winty, your points are all spot on, but Pies remind me more of us in 07 than 04. They do have STARS. Didak, Swan, Cloke, Jolly, Shaw, Pendlebury and Maxwell are excellent players, and their small forwards Davis, Wellingham, Beams, Sidebottom, Medhurst are ALL capable of worrying any defence. Dawes has been their Pods and Ball gives them centre clearance capabilities.

Right now they worry me a little more than the Saints, and that's saying something for me.

Carlton also give me unhappy insecurity feelings with their quick mids, Judd, and their indigenous forwards, Kreuzer, and Waite/ Russell. They have a great blend and could go all the way

Hope the Michael Johnson saga doesn't unsettle Freo too much as they deserve some success this year.

 

[krisholio14]

Winty, your points are all spot on, but Pies remind me more of us in 07 than 04. They do have STARS. Didak, Swan, Cloke, Jolly, Shaw, Pendlebury and Maxwell are excellent players, and their small forwards Davis, Wellingham, Beams, Sidebottom, Medhurst are ALL capable of worrying any defence. Dawes has been their Pods and Ball gives them centre clearance capabilities.

Right now they worry me a little more than the Saints, and that's saying something for me.

Carlton also give me unhappy insecurity feelings with their quick mids, Judd, and their indigenous forwards, Kreuzer, and Waite/ Russell. They have a great blend and could go all the way

Hope the Michael Johnson saga doesn't unsettle Freo too much as they deserve some success this year.

The Pies are nothing like we were in 07.

If they were, you could put your glasses down and give em the cup right now.

 

[Partridge]

The improvement in Lonergan can't be understated either. I was criticial of his inclusion in the side in Round 1, but he hasn't put a foot wrong thus far this season. Depending on who we play, he can possibly hold down a key defensive spot, freeing up Scarlett to play a more attacking role. Milburn, Taylor and Enright have started the season from where they left off last season. The inclusion of Hunt after 12 months off is massive IMO, and we saw the reason on Saturday night, when his pinpoint accuracy from his kick-outs led to 5 goals being kicked down the other end.

Good points Winty, but I disagree with this part. Does anyone think it's a coincidence that we've suddenly looked the best we have all year now that Scarlett has returned?

And I don't buy the "release him into a more attacking role" argument. Scarlett has always been an attacking defender. If - and I'm praying it doesn't happen - Thompson falls for that opposition sides will do what Hawthorn did in round 2. Tell his opponent to run away from the ball all day and take Scarlett out of the game. That what happened that day, it only changed when Thompson (finally) put Scarlett on Roughead at three-quarter-time. Not coincidentally, Roughead got shutdown and we came from behind to win. There's a lesson there somewhere.

Also, if Thompson does play Lonergan on a good key forward instead of Scarlett, it will cost us games. Don't say you weren't warned. He may have improved, but he's not that good. And he's there as a third tall defender (Harley's role), not the first.