Who is holding Carlton back more?

[bluemarq]

Ahahaha, 2 1/2 wins outside the top 4 is a 'hairsbreadth" these days. While your mob "ran the premier to literally the last second", West Coast actually beat Geelong but a guess a close loss is more confidence inspiring than a close win when going into a prelim against a hardened Geelong outfit .
Those Brave Blues.

Lol , I did remember eagles and Carlton being closer the end of the season than they were. (red face)

I am certain th Blues would have put up a better effort than be Eagles pathetic showing in the prelim final

 

[JuddyBuddy]

I, for one, would have the patience for that, but I suspect that all the usual whinger blues supporters who are baying for Ratts and Sticks to be sacked would be baying for Malthouse's blood after 2 years of rebuilding. It's the problem with all these muppets that want instant gratification at a sporting club. It took Chelsea 10 years to finally win the champions league after having hundreds of millions of pounds thrown at getting in players.

Supporters just want to see consistent improvement. The "usual whinger blues supporters who are baying for Ratts and Sticks to be sacked" are supporters who are pissed off the club has gone backwards in a year when it was meant to be peaking.

We've gone from pushing top 4 to sitting amongst the pack of mediocre teams who are struggling to break in to the 8 and you are surprised supporters are frustrated and calling for change?

 

[zero]

Lol , I did remember eagles and Carlton being closer the end of the season than they were. (red face)

I am certain th Blues would have put up a better effort than be Eagles pathetic showing in the prelim final

yeah, like most blues supporters, your self delusion and arrogance led you to believe your side was alot better than they actually were.

it's news to many of you that you weren't actually a top 4 side, were a long way off the top sides and in fact were lucky to be 5th (as we are finding out now)

that's why it's so hilarious when the "top 4" blues put up pissweak, pathetic performances and continually roll over without putting up a fight, even to midrange sides.

 

[stui magpie]

The recruiting staff and player development staff have to take some serious blame.

Carlton are complaining about injuries to key players, but all that shows is lack of depth. Collingwood and Westcoast have both suffered a lot of injuries, yet keep winning. The Pies have bought in 7 first gamers this year and all have made a contribution.

IMO Carlton has relied on stacking it's midfield and haven't recruited KPP (or haven't developed the ones they have recruited), yet they have no midfield depth.

There's a lot more wrong than just a few injuries and the coach. I heard someone say on radio yesterday that the Carlton board was basically dysfunctional, too many people on it and they're in several separate cliques.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

yeah, like most blues supporters, your self delusion and arrogance led you to believe your side was alot better than they actually were.

it's news to many of you that you weren't actually a top 4 side, were a long way off the top sides and in fact were lucky to be 5th (as we are finding out now)

that's why it's so hilarious when the "top 4" blues put up pissweak, pathetic performances and continually roll over without putting up a fight, even to midrange sides.

What a crap trolling post. I guess the bookies and media scribes were all deluded Carlton supporters too? Take your hatred elsewhere and let those who are capable of discussion do so.

 

[chunkylover53]

I think the talent/potential is there. They showed it last year with some great performances and a top 6 finish, and the first few rounds this year. Anyone who thinks the list is pure crap is being ignorant. Clearly the club is a rabble and there are culture issues everywhere which Ratten, Sticks and the whole board has created.

 

[MagpieMilitia]

I think the talent/potential is there. They showed it last year with some great performances and a top 6 finish, and the first few rounds this year. Anyone who thinks the list is pure crap is being ignorant. Clearly the club is a rabble and there are culture issues everywhere which Ratten, Sticks and the whole board has created.

It was a weak top 6 last year. Made them look better than what they are. They don't have Premiership capability in that list and with their cream Judd, Waite, Scotland all having their best football behind them, they are looking at a pretty savage rebuild and another "dark era".

 

[chunkylover53]

It was a weak top 6 last year. Made them look better than what they are. They don't have Premiership capability in that list and with their cream Judd, Waite, Scotland all having their best football behind them, they are looking at a pretty savage rebuild and another "dark era".

Yes, a massive dark era with 3 players with less than 3 years left in them. Also, if the top 6 last year was weak then what does that make this years?

 

[gbatman]

The talent is there. The coaching staff have the players playing a rediculous brand of footy. Injuries to all tall forwards doesn't help, as well as injuries to Judd, Carrazzo and Murphy. The fittness staff produced a team of weak, strengthless runners.

If Carlton get a good coach who gets them running from behind the football, playing more direct and gets them working as a team at ball ups and trains the players in a way that they are stronger and are breaking down less then Carlton will be a premiership contender, as hard as that is to see.

At this stage there is very little that has been done right at that football club.

 

[TheycallmeBruce]

Sticks is the problem. Buck stops with the pres when so many bad decisions are made. Carlton's early draft picks have not developed into the players they expected them to be (murphy aside). Then gave up early draft picks, tried recycling and in some cases buying players/coaches/assistant coaches and ceo's thinking they would become a powerhouse club. Back to the drawing board.

 

[fddf]

I think it is mainly the list.

Up forward, they have missed Waite badly. He is their only really competent big forward. Hampson is a terrible footballer and should be dropped as soon as Waite gets back. Warnock/Kreuzer are much better than he is in the ruck so essentially he is playing as a key forward exclusively. Betts is probably the most inconsistent footballer in the league. He has a few massive games a season where he kicks his 4-6 goals and then he will go on a 6 week run and kick 6-8 goals in total during that time. Garlett has gone backwards massively and has been awful this season. Doesn't get much of it and isn't kicking goals. The forward line i believe is the biggest problem, it just doesn't function properly, although it will improve substantially if/when Waite gets back.

The midfield could use a decent extractor. They have enough outside players and they spread well but they have been belted in contested possessions in key games this year. Not sure if it's just me but it appears as though Robinson has become a bit more of an outside player than when he started. He gets more stats now but doesn't seem to win as much hard ball. The midfield looks great on paper but in reality, it just doesn't play out that way. Gibbs is a massive disappointment and should probably just play exclusively on the HBF and get some cheap possessions and set up play. His skills are good, he just doesn't know how to play hard. Carrazzo also seems to play more outside now and receives alot more than he used to. He is a good tagger though so he is definitely not the problem, just would like to see him go back to winning more hard ball himself.

The backline is adequate but not great. Jamison is pretty solid, Laidler is a big loss and Scotland provides good run coming out of there. Worked overtime this year because they have been belted in the midfield in most of the big games this year.

How much effect can Sticks really have on these issues? I don't think he can be blamed for holding them back at all, definitely have to look at both Ratts and the players. Ratts seems like a quality bloke but maybe he/his gameplan has been found out.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Who cares? Just so long as it continues.

Let's face it, Carlton have done nothing for 15 years. They thought all they needed was to poach a big name player from another club and tank for a couple of No.1 draft picks, and the rest would take care of itself. All they've done is puff out their chests and tell everyone how good they are going to be.

I can just imagine after beating Collingwood in round 3, all they were thinking of was where to put the cup, and I wonder what they are going to do with all the 2012 premiership t-shirts and memorabilia they've ordered

 

[JeffDunne]

Kernahan must be the longest serving 'interim' president in history.

Unfortunately that's about all that can be said here on that subject without the usual suspects getting their knickers in a knot.

Kernahan is a no go area - both here and in the media.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

I've been saying ALL along that Ratten is the problem, which also makes Sticks part of the problem for extending his contract.

But I love Sticks because the longer he keeps Ratten there, the longer we can sit back while Carlton don't fulfill their potential. A decent coach would have that list doing some pretty good things.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

Sticks. Still living in a bygone era and refusing to accept his club is a minnow these days. Ratts is just an average coach with an overrated, lopsided list, he made his bed in the preseason and now has to lie in it but Sticks is defining the culture.

The club is falling apart. Nobody standing up for Betts after Guerra hit him... Garlett asking Robinson if his shot was going through... 2 examples from this week alone, not withstanding the weak, front running, spineless footy they displayed.

Its wonderful tosee these cheating pack of scumbags led by a mercenary who cant kick falling from 'grace'. I said all preseason they didnt have the depth to make a difference this year and im so happy to be proven correct.

Now I read that Carlton's medical report helped seal Guerra's suspension despite Betts kicking the goal and playing out the game? What a messed up culture they have these days.

**** em, hope they rot down the bottom of the ladder for another 10 years.

And they will.

 

[rose jam]

Has anyone bothered to think that this is about as good as Carlton actually are?

 

[scomac]

Has anyone bothered to think that this is about as good as Carlton actually are?

Good point,everyone blames the coach and the board i for one haven't seen any of them shanking kicks and playing for their collective footballing future.

 

[Terex8]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/mor...n-wants-shake-up/story-e6frf9jf-1226415081335

 

[MeisterBot]

Aside from Judd, who are the on-field leaders for Carlton? The blokes ordering others around, setting up structures on the fly, telling the downhill skiers to pull their heads in and leading by example? Robinson? Carazzo?

After watching the Hawthorn game, felt like Carlton heap too much on Judd. Not just as a player, but as a leader.

Not trying to troll, genuinely curious.

The forward line on Friday night was a rabble. Waite out and playing Ruckman as KPF means the output isn't equal, sure, but they just had NFI.

Not saying that's a bigger issue than their injuries/coaching/development/recruiting, etc, but there's a less tangible element to Carlton's woes, and I'm wondering what it is. (inb4 Carltank)

 

[Grin]

To be fair, his initial job was to not lift them off the bottom of the ladder. He succeeded in that preliminary task, at least.

To problem with prolonged systematic tanking is that it seems to affect the very fibre of the playing group. It hangs around in the psyche and rears its ugly head when the heat is on. That's why we've had fancied sides in Melbourne and Carlton (in recent years) fail to live up to internal and external expectations and yet not seem to give a toss. They've been conditioned to lose without consequence. It's natural now.

Or perhaps somewhere deep in their collective subconscious they feel that they don't deserve to win a premiership.

 

[doofdoof]

Sticks has been on the Board since 1997 and has had a hand is every bad decision since - financial mismanagement, salary cap cheating and tanking. He has never been held accountable by the Carlton faithful. I hope they keep him as president as long as possible.

 

[MarkT2]

It's not really a person as such it is a Carlton thing. What made them strong brought them undone. Elliot, Collins, Pratt etc. Go back to Sticks at the B&F a few years back if you want to know what's holding Carlton back. With the draft picks they've had they should be where they thought they'd be at the start of the year. They will actually be a better side on the field next year if they hold onto the coach and the bulk of the list but they won't win a flag without some good list remodelling and a change of coach - and they won't sustain any success without some club remodelling. The latter won’t happen.

 

[Dramoth]

These two paragraphs sum it up fairly well.

The problem is there isn't too many insightful journos these days, rare as hen's teeth.

A few injuries to key players have shown a drastic lack of depth at Carlton, and recruiters/development coaches need to be looked at every bit has hard as Ratten.

Why they got rid of O'Hailpin I don't know. He will never be a superstar but always provided a hard lead up contest when required, especially in the absence of Waite. If someone was in his way he would crash hard into them and create a spill. Waite is out injured or suspended so often that you need someone ready to fill a key forward spot, and we don't have it.

The three rucks struggle as key forwards, especially Hampson and Warnock. They are simply not mobile enough to get clear on a lead and don't take enough contested grabs which in fairness are pretty hard to get many of deep forward these days.

I think that the reason for getting rid of O'hAlpin was because we had Mitchell, Bray and Casboult all in the seconds and we had probably identified Rowe as his direct replacement.

We weren't to know that we would lose Rowe to testicular cancer and Casboult and Mitchell to long term injuries. However, saying that... in Setanta's only game for GWS, he blew out his knee and is subsequently out for the season. Whats to say that wouldnt have happened anyway if he had stayed at the Blues.

 

[rose jam]

Even before the injuries really hit st.Kilda showed the blue print for completely dismantling carlton, set a ring of players around the stoppages and tag the outide runners (namely Simpson). Because they don't have any bail out options up forward they can't cope with out precision delivery up forward, so they are shot.
A key strong marking forward would absolutely change Carlton completely (2 would be ideal), but they're no going to get one of the right quality from outside (Henderson who they pinned hopes on couldn't do it), and they don't have time with the current list to grow one from the draft. Window missed.

 

[Dramoth]

Even before the injuries really hit st.Kilda showed the blue print for completely dismantling carlton, set a ring of players around the stoppages and tag the outide runners (namely Simpson). Because they don't have any bail out options up forward they can't cope with out precision delivery up forward, so they are shot.
A key strong marking forward would absolutely change Carlton completely (2 would be ideal), but they're no going to get one of the right quality from outside (Henderson who they pinned hopes on couldn't do it), and they don't have time with the current list to grow one from the draft. Window missed.

As I said in the post before yours... we didnt know that we were going to lose our 3 backup KPF's to injuries early in the season playing for the bullants. We had also been counting on Waite staying relatively injury free this season. We also didnt know that Thornton was going to succumb to injury either which took care of our utility tall player.

If Waite was available, Kreuzer would be on ice and Hampson would be playing as the #2 ruck.

That being said... I have also said that the players should be taking some responsibility towards the losses as well. It isnt just Ratts and Sticks thats doing the job.