Who is the best Key Defender of the 21st Century?

[Meteoric Rise]

Do you plan on answering any of the questions asked of you, or are you simply now resorting to insults?

If your question was sensible, then ask it again now and I will answer. If it wasn't sensible, you would be better advised to forget it, less embarrassing for you.

 

[rye]

mcgovern being underrated a lot itt, feel like if his body had not have failed him relatively early in his career he would be polling a lot better here

 

[Jeremias]

If your question was sensible, then ask it again now and I will answer. If it wasn't sensible, you would be better advised to forget it, less embarrassing for you.

Not sure you are in any position to to lecture anyone about sense, given your reliance on irrelevant statistics.

The questions are there for all to see, and not sure I’m the only person you haven’t answered.

Go figure.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

mcgovern being underrated a lot itt, feel like if his body had not have failed him relatively early in his career he would be polling a lot better here

This is spot on, he is massively under-rated by the poll.

 

[Noidnadroj]

Your extrapolation of numbers is woeful.

They havent just won the most games, it is not even close....they dwarf the rest, 100 more than Richmond for fecks sake.

Finals are irrelevant when talking AA.

This clearly is something you fail to grasp.

You continue to drop in finals performance as if it is relevant, it aint.

Your idiotic use of ratios to try and fluff your narrative is laughable.

Hawks H&A seasons were much less impressive than Geelong...they had two 3rds for starters.

Geelong in 2007 finished 3 games clear on top (or in idiotic Meteor ratio world, 300% better than Hawks biggest gap to second) and in 2008 they finished 4 games clear on top...(400% better than Hawks best gap to second).

No clubs since have ever finished 3 or 4 games clear of second at the end of H&A. Not even the mighty Rance lead Tigers.

Unlike Geelong, Hawthorn excelled in finals....unfortunately this is completely irrelevant to AA awards.

So yes again your comparison is nonsense.

You are comparing a historic outlier of a H&A team, one who dominated consecutive H&A seasons like no other in the 21st century, with a team who came 3rd a couple of times in H&A but lifted in finals.

But then are surprised that the dominant H&A team (300% and 400% better) then dominates a H&A award??

Comprehension fail.

You continue to highlight that you dont get it.

There is no wins to selections rule or ratio.

The obvious reality is that each season the best performed teams have the majority of best players.

It also helps if you are a consistently strong player with a media profile before the season as you already have a reputation. Dominate media from the get go, and so may get a nod in a line ball type decision with a no name break out type player.

The last 3 years the minor premier (none really standouts, unlike those 07-08 Cats teams) has had the most selections...who would have guessed!!

Dees with 5 in 2021, Cats with 5 in 2022 (those ******* Cats again, bloody always being looked after) and Pies with 3 in 2023.

What does your ratio say, did Collingwood get dudded by only having 3 this year?

How many AA selections should a team that won 21 games and finished 4 games clear of second receive? Should it be 25% more than a team who wins 17 games? Or 400% more than a team who was only 1 game clear on top?

Geelong have been fortunate enough to have some ALL time champions play for them in the 21st century.

There is no conspiracy, just your awful comprehension and Richmond bias.

Geelong have been blessed with some ALL time champions, 300+ games winners who maintained a higher level of performance for much longer than most...especially the majority of players who have pulled on a Tiger jumper in the 21st century.

As a result they are more highly decorated, including recieving multiple AAs amongst other accolades.

This includes Scarlett being better than Rance.

But of course everyone else has it wrong, and the Tiger is always better for some obscure reason...it might be being a "big game player" in one thread, avg player ratings in another, how good a single peak season was next, potentially how many avg coaches votes if that suits, or the ratio of goals to inside 50s in the next if all else fails.

When there have been any 50/50 or even 30/70 calls, Cats players seem to get them, that’s all. I don’t think there have been an excessive number of ‘howlers’, just a few head scratches.

Stewart misses 6 games and finishes 9th in B&F and he gets in.

Egan averages 11 touches and gets in… I think we can all remember it was a very surprising selection at the time.

Mooney kicks 55-goals in a dominant team in 2007 and gets in, Riewoldt wins Coleman in 12th ranked team in 2012 and doesn’t.

Stewart and Enright have 11 selections …. the main defenders of Richmond’s back-to-back of 2019-20 and key members of the dominant side of 2017-20… Grimes, Vlastuin, Astbury and Broad have one between them.

Tom Lynch of 2022 plays 18 games. finishes with goal average of 3.32 … next best is 2.91. Contested marks 3.26, next best is 2.50. He wins the B&F … doesn’t get in. Blicavs and Heeney are named on interchange. Wouldn’t you think the most dominant key forward of the season playing on the oppo’s best defender every week gets a gig somewhere?

Sicily of 2022 remains the biggest howler I’ve ever seen. Leads basically every defensive stat that exists, regularly plays on the best forward, doesn’t miss a game and wins the B&F and misses…. just can’t understand the thinking of selectors sometimes - that one can’t be explained.


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[Noidnadroj]

I think what you meant to say was 'Rance played at the same time as forwards who will be in the top 28 goalkickers of a time'.

We've already agreed that Rance rarely stood the opposition's dominant key forward... that was left to Astbury and Grimes, to allow Rance to play his role. A role he played extremely well, which is why he is being discussed in the best 4 key defenders since the turn of the century, whilst Grimes and Astbury aren't.

Who agreed he didn’t stand the oppo’s dominant KPF? You? Rance played on Buddy basically every single time Tigers ever played Hawks. He played on Nick Riewoldt basically every single time. He played on Tom Lynch when he played for GC. He played on Tex Walker. He regularly played on Cloke. He played on Hawkins.

When Astbury got fit he might have occasionally taken a big lumberer like Dixon - but never did he play on Buddy, N Riewoldt, T Lynch or Walker…. and Grimes absolutely never stood the oppo’s dominant key forward when Rance was playing … it was never his role when Rance was so much bigger and stronger.

So thanks for your input, but it’s way way off the mark.


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[doppleganger]

Rance played on 7 forwards who will be in the top-28 goal kickers of all time. How many of the top-28 did Scarlett regularly play on?

You mean played on the same field as, as you Tigers love saying Rance played on everyone...he never regularly locked down one player, like Scarlett originally did.

Scarlett actually played against 11 of the top 28 - he even crossed over with Plugger.

And if you kept counting Scarlett also was on the park against #29, #30 and #31.

So give Scarlett 14 of the top 31 goal kickers.

And yes, that doesnt include TomaHawk (but if being real, it was normally Astbury or some other Tiger who took TomaHawk).

 

[Fadge]

Stewart and Enright have 11 selections …. the main defenders of Richmond’s back-to-back of 2019-20 and key members of the dominant side of 2017-20… Grimes, Vlastuin, Astbury and Broad have one between them.

Hang on.

In a thread where Richmond supporters are crying foul because Alex Rance is not considered the best key defender since the turn of the century, you personally don't rate him as one of the best 4 defenders during your 'dynasty period'?

 

[Noidnadroj]

You guys are still dying on this hill by defending the indefensible Player Ratings using the Rance and Hill example?

Wowee.

But I'm sure we can all agree that effecting a spoil to stop an opposition player gaining possession that might result in a goal at a stage of a game when the result is beyond doubt has far more scoreboard impact than a player who has gained an uncontested possession as a result of gut running to space and converts truly to keep his team within striking distance of the opposition...

I’m surprised you don’t understand the difference between how the points are calculated, versus how they may or may not align with the best players for an individual match … do you genuinely not understand that concept?

If Hill does the same thing in Round 1 next year and wins 4 contested possessions, and the ‘Joe the Goose’s’ get passed off to Elliott or McReery, then what does Hill’s game look like if the Pies lost by 7-goals? It’s a nothing, 2-goal game.

Let me use one more analogy before I decide if you’re being deliberately daft or genuinely don’t understand it.

Let’s say there’s a player ratings system in cricket for batsman. Let’s say Aussies are chasing 180, and Warner makes 100 not out and we pass them 8-down. And on the way to his 100 he gets dropped 6-times.

Now let’s say there’s a game where the Aussies are chasing 450 and Smith makes a chanceless 88, but Aussies are dismissed for 270 and get walloped.

Warner would get maximum votes. He’d be lauded as the hero and rightly so, his innings won the Aussies the game. Meanwhile Smith didn’t give a chance but his innings was pretty worthless in the context of the game and a bit of ‘nothing’ innings.

If there was a cricket ratings system that looks at what is likely to benefit the team in the long run and not focussed on the specific result, whose innings do you think an emotionless ratings system would rate higher?

If Warner gives 6-chances a game he’ll be out of the side in 3 more tests. Things worked out in this game and he got some luck and rode it to victory. Just as if Smith continues to bat without giving chances his luck will turn and he’ll get hundreds and big scores to help his team win more often than Warner.

So Smith’s game was rated higher because the way he played will be more beneficial in the long run. But in isolation and in the context of an individual game of course Warner’s innings was more important and worthy of BOG.


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[Noidnadroj]

Hang on.

In a thread where Richmond supporters are crying foul because Alex Rance is not considered the best key defender since the turn of the century, you personally don't rate him as one of the best 4 defenders during your 'dynasty period'?

I said those other 4 players were the main defenders in the B2B of 2019-20 … Rance wasn’t a main defender in those teams.. he played about 70-minutes of the 2019 season.

Then I said those other 4 were key members of the dynasty defence.

Keep up champ.


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[Fadge]

I’m surprised you don’t understand the difference between how the points are calculated, versus how they may or may not align with the best players for an individual match … do you genuinely not understand that concept?

If Hill does the same thing in Round 1 next year and wins 4 contested possessions, and the ‘Joe the Goose’s’ get passed off to Elliott or McReery, then what does Hill’s game look like if the Pies lost by 7-goals? It’s a nothing, 2-goal game.

Let me use one more analogy before I decide if you’re being deliberately daft or genuinely don’t understand it.

Let’s say there’s a player ratings system in cricket for batsman. Let’s say Aussies are chasing 180, and Warner makes 100 not out and we pass them 8-down. And on the way to his 100 he gets dropped 6-times.

Now let’s say there’s a game where the Aussies are chasing 450 and Smith makes a chanceless 88, but Aussies are dismissed for 270 and get walloped.

Warner would get maximum votes. He’d be lauded as the hero and rightly so, his innings won the Aussies the game. Meanwhile Smith didn’t give a chance but his innings was pretty worthless in the context of the game and a bit of ‘nothing’ innings.

If there was a cricket ratings system that looks at what is likely to benefit the team in the long run and not focussed on the specific result, whose innings do you think an emotionless ratings system would rate higher?

If Warner gives 6-chances a game he’ll be out of the side in 3 more tests. Things worked out in this game and he got some luck and rode it to victory. Just as if Smith continues to bat without giving chances his luck will turn and he’ll get hundreds and big scores to help his team win more often than Warner.

So Smith’s game was rated higher because the way he played will be more beneficial in the long run. But in isolation and in the context of an individual game of course Warner’s innings was more important and worthy of BOG.

You could give me 100 more analogies, and Rance's 2018 Preliminary Final would not be in the same universe as Hill's 2023 Grand Final.

Though AFL Player Ratings disagrees...

 

[Fadge]

I said those other 4 players were the main defenders in the B2B of 2019-20 … Rance wasn’t a main defender in those teams.. he played about 70-minutes of the 2019 season.

Then I said those other 4 were key members of the dynasty defence.

Keep up champ.

Interesting you're complaining about the Geelong defenders who were awarded All-Australian guernseys, and exclude a Richmond player from your dynasty period who was also awarded All-Australian guernseys whilst focussing on those that didn't...

 

[Mr Meow]

Interesting you're complaining about the Geelong defenders who were awarded All-Australian guernseys, and exclude a Richmond player from your dynasty period who was also awarded All-Australian guernseys whilst focussing on those that didn't...

Still incredibly shocked that there were so many AA selections for:

A side that went on a 93-14 win/loss run with a median season percentage of 155.7% from round 5 2007 through to the end of the 2011 season.

Scarlett at the core of it all after being clearly the club's best player for the previous few years as well. What a mug.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

I’m surprised you don’t understand the difference between how the points are calculated, versus how they may or may not align with the best players for an individual match … do you genuinely not understand that concept?

If Hill does the same thing in Round 1 next year and wins 4 contested possessions, and the ‘Joe the Goose’s’ get passed off to Elliott or McReery, then what does Hill’s game look like if the Pies lost by 7-goals? It’s a nothing, 2-goal game.

Let me use one more analogy before I decide if you’re being deliberately daft or genuinely don’t understand it.

Let’s say there’s a player ratings system in cricket for batsman. Let’s say Aussies are chasing 180, and Warner makes 100 not out and we pass them 8-down. And on the way to his 100 he gets dropped 6-times.

Now let’s say there’s a game where the Aussies are chasing 450 and Smith makes a chanceless 88, but Aussies are dismissed for 270 and get walloped.

Warner would get maximum votes. He’d be lauded as the hero and rightly so, his innings won the Aussies the game. Meanwhile Smith didn’t give a chance but his innings was pretty worthless in the context of the game and a bit of ‘nothing’ innings.

If there was a cricket ratings system that looks at what is likely to benefit the team in the long run and not focussed on the specific result, whose innings do you think an emotionless ratings system would rate higher?

If Warner gives 6-chances a game he’ll be out of the side in 3 more tests. Things worked out in this game and he got some luck and rode it to victory. Just as if Smith continues to bat without giving chances his luck will turn and he’ll get hundreds and big scores to help his team win more often than Warner.

So Smith’s game was rated higher because the way he played will be more beneficial in the long run. But in isolation and in the context of an individual game of course Warner’s innings was more important and worthy of BOG.


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Perfectly put analogy. You are seeking to understand the ratings system. The likes of Fadge are actively seeking to misunderstand it. Because it is based on fact.

 

[doppleganger]

When there have been any 50/50 or even 30/70 calls, Cats players seem to get them, that’s all. I don’t think there have been an excessive number of ‘howlers’, just a few head scratches.

Not Cats, players from top teams.

If you have two midfielders with pretty similar numbers, but one from a top4 team the other was a bottom 4 team...70% of the time it will be the top4 player who gets the nod.

Stewart misses 6 games and finishes 9th in B&F and he gets in.

Stewart was lucky, against Sicily, but again a case of minor premier v a battling team.

Egan averages 11 touches and gets in… I think we can all remember it was a very surprising selection at the time.

What is it with Tigers and thinking disposal numbers are relevant for key defenders?

Darren Glass was AA in 2006 and 2007 avg you guessed it 11 touches in both seasons.

Mooney kicks 55-goals in a dominant team in 2007 and gets in, Riewoldt wins Coleman in 12th ranked team in 2012 and doesn’t.

Do you not realise AA selectors look at goal assists and score involvements too?

2007

Mooney 55 goals and 21 goal assists
Buddy 63 goals but just 11 goal assists

So yeah in a line ball call, the player from the minor premier (Mooney) got the nod for 3rd tall.

2012

Jack had less avg score involvements than TomaHawk, Franklin, Pavlich and TexWalker in 2012.

Coaches votes were

TomaHawk 66
Buddy 48
PAV 57
TEX 45
Jack 21

Tex and Pav stiffer to be overlooked in favour of D.Cox in the FP.

Stewart and Enright have 11 selections …. the main defenders of Richmond’s back-to-back of 2019-20 and key members of the dominant side of 2017-20… Grimes, Vlastuin, Astbury and Broad have one between them.

Enright and Stewart didnt overlap at all. Enright retired in 2016 and Stewart debuted in 2017.

Enright had 7 seasons where the Cats finished top2 on H&A ladder, Enright was AA in 6 of the 7.

Stewart has had 3 seasons where the Cats finished top2 on H&A ladder, Stewart was AA in 2 of the 3.

Richmond have only finished top2 on H&A ladder in the 21st century once, and Rance got the AA nod. In 2019 when finishing 3rd Grimes and Houli both got AA.

Not only that Enright and Stewart both have won 2 BnFs each - 4 in total.

Grimes, Vlaustin, Astbury and Broad have combined for just 1 BnF.

Throw some meteor type ratios to help explain it - Enright and Stewart had 1000% more top2 finishes than Richmond and won 400% more BnFs than the Richmond players.

Pretty simple stuff....when a team has 1000% more top2 finishes, of which their star HBFs been a key part of that...so 8 AA gigs from 10 dominant seasons, looks about right.

Tom Lynch of 2022 plays 18 games. finishes with goal average of 3.32 … next best is 2.91. Contested marks 3.26, next best is 2.50. He wins the B&F … doesn’t get in.

You again ignore goal assists!!

TomaHawk avg 1.1
Cameron avg 0.9
Curnow 0.5
Lynch 0.3

Score involvements

TomaHawk avg 8.7
Cameron avg 7.9
Curnow 7.4
lynch 6.8

Considering Cats were minor premier you arent dropping Hawkins or Cameron, and they took Curnow over Lynch.

Blicavs and Heeney are named on interchange. Wouldn’t you think the most dominant key forward of the season playing on the oppo’s best defender every week gets a gig somewhere?

They already picked the three dominant forwards of the year in terms of score involvements.

Sicily of 2022 remains the biggest howler I’ve ever seen. Leads basically every defensive stat that exists, regularly plays on the best forward, doesn’t miss a game and wins the B&F and misses…. just can’t understand the thinking of selectors sometimes - that one can’t be explained.

It is the team performance impact...came down to Stewart v Sicily, and they went with the player from the minor premier.

Back on thread topic - Scarlett was way better than Rance.

 

[Mr Meow]

Perfectly put analogy. You are seeking to understand the ratings system. The likes of Fadge are actively seeking to misunderstand it. Because it is based on fact.

I expect you'll ignore this but anyway:

Why did they rate Sam Gilbert and Richard Douglas over Hodge and Gibson in 2013?

Sam Iles ahead of Jack Riewoldt 2012?

Robbie Gray had 111 coaches votes but couldn't squeeze into the top 15 in 2014. Jobe Watson with 30 coaches votes comes in 8th.

Priddis the All Australian centreman in 2015 comes 21st. Dylan Shiel has an average season and is 13th.

2016: NicNat (non AA squad year) 26 places ahead of Selwood who got 86 coaches votes.

2017: McEvoy, Taylor Adams and Nathan Jones well ahead of the All Australians Tom Mitchell, Matt Crouch and Zach Merrett.

2018: Edwards and Higgins ahead of the Brownlow medalist and League MVP Tom Mitchell.

2019: Ellis-Yolmen ahead of Luke Shuey (85 coaches votes). Andrew Phillips over Jeremy Cameron.

2020: Zac Fisher ahead of Shai Bolton. Shiel (Bomber) over Boak in his best season.

2021: Stringer 3rd best player in the comp. Laird and McLuggage not top 50.

2022: Dixon well ahead of Jeremy Cameron and Callum Mills.

2023: LDU ahead of Nick Daicos. Rowell and Briggs ahead of Toby Greene and Connor Rozee. Sicily behind Tarryn Thomas.

 

[Mr Meow]

Not Cats, players from top teams.

If you have two midfielders with pretty similar numbers, but one from a top4 team the other was a bottom 4 team...70% of the time it will be the top4 player who gets the nod.

Stewart was lucky, against Sicily, but again a case of minor premier v a battling team.

What is it with Tigers and thinking disposal numbers are relevant for key defenders?

Darren Glass was AA in 2006 and 2007 avg you guessed it 11 touches in both seasons.

Do you not realise AA selectors look at goal assists and score involvements too?

2007

Mooney 55 goals and 21 goal assists
Buddy 63 goals but just 11 goal assists

So yeah in a line ball call, the player from the minor premier (Mooney) got the nod for 3rd tall.

2012

Jack had less avg score involvements than TomaHawk, Franklin, Pavlich and TexWalker in 2012.

Coaches votes were

TomaHawk 66
Buddy 48
PAV 57
TEX 45
Jack 21

Tex and Pav stiffer to be overlooked in favour of D.Cox in the FP.

Enright and Stewart didnt overlap at all. Enright retired in 2016 and Stewart debuted in 2017.

Enright had 7 seasons where the Cats finished top2 on H&A ladder, Enright was AA in 6 of the 7.

Stewart has had 3 seasons where the Cats finished top2 on H&A ladder, Stewart was AA in 2 of the 3.

Richmond have only finished top2 on H&A ladder in the 21st century once, and Rance got the AA nod. In 2019 when finishing 3rd Grimes and Houli both got AA.

Not only that Enright and Stewart both have won 2 BnFs each - 4 in total.

Grimes, Vlaustin, Astbury and Broad have combined for just 1 BnF.

Throw some meteor type ratios to help explain it - Enright and Stewart had 1000% more top2 finishes than Richmond and won 400% more BnFs than the Richmond players.

Pretty simple stuff....when a team has 1000% more top2 finishes, of which their star HBFs been a key part of that...so 8 AA gigs from 10 dominant seasons, looks about right.

You again ignore goal assists!!

TomaHawk avg 1.1
Cameron avg 0.9
Curnow 0.5
Lynch 0.3

Score involvements

TomaHawk avg 8.7
Cameron avg 7.9
Curnow 7.4
lynch 6.8

Considering Cats were minor premier you arent dropping Hawkins or Cameron, and they took Curnow over Lynch.

They already picked the three dominant forwards of the year in terms of score involvements.

It is the team performance impact...came down to Stewart v Sicily, and they went with the player from the minor premier.

Back on thread topic - Scarlett was way better than Rance.

 

[doppleganger]

If Hill does the same thing in Round 1 next year and wins 4 contested possessions, and the ‘Joe the Goose’s’ get passed off to Elliott or McReery, then what does Hill’s game look like if the Pies lost by 7-goals? It’s a nothing, 2-goal game.

Joe the gooses??

Hill took 6 marks inside 50, 100% more than the next best (Daniher with 3).

Hill laid the most tackles inside 50 on the ground

Hill had the most score involvements on the ground.

It was the perfect game from a dangerous small forward, full of scoreboard impact and was the main man inside the F50.

Why you Tiger tragics keep trying to talk down a big game player in favour of a horrible AFL player rating system is hilarious.

Let me use one more analogy before I decide if you’re being deliberately daft or genuinely don’t understand it.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

I expect you'll ignore this but anyway:

Why did they rate Sam Gilbert and Richard Douglas over Hodge and Gibson in 2013?

Sam Iles ahead of Jack Riewoldt 2012?

Robbie Gray had 111 coaches votes but couldn't squeeze into the top 15 in 2014. Jobe Watson with 30 coaches votes comes in 8th.

Priddis the All Australian centreman in 2015 comes 21st. Dylan Shiel has an average season and is 13th.

2016: NicNat (non AA squad year) 26 places ahead of Selwood who got 86 coaches votes.

2017: McEvoy, Taylor Adams and Nathan Jones well ahead of the All Australians Tom Mitchell, Matt Crouch and Zach Merrett.

2018: Edwards and Higgins ahead of the Brownlow medalist and League MVP Tom Mitchell.

2019: Ellis-Yolmen ahead of Luke Shuey (85 coaches votes). Andrew Phillips over Jeremy Cameron.

2020: Zac Fisher ahead of Shai Bolton. Shiel (Bomber) over Boak in his best season.

2021: Stringer 3rd best player in the comp. Laird and McLuggage not top 50.

2022: Dixon well ahead of Jeremy Cameron and Callum Mills.

2023: LDU ahead of Nick Daicos. Rowell and Briggs ahead of Toby Greene and Connor Rozee. Sicily behind Tarryn Thomas.

Lol, because they watched and recorded every action undertaken by every footballer and assigned certain points per action, and as you are no doubt using average ratings, they took no account of games missed as AA selectors, Brownlow, B & F votes and Coaches votes inevitably do.

You needed me to explain that to you?

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Joe the gooses??

Hill took 6 marks inside 50, 100% more than the next best (Daniher with 3).

Hill laid the most tackles inside 50 on the ground

Hill had the most score involvements on the ground.

It was the perfect game from a dangerous small forward, full of scoreboard impact and was the main man inside the F50.

Why you Tiger tragics keep trying to talk down a big game player in favour of a horrible AFL player rating system is hilarious.

If you are going into that game again, and you can choose one of DeGoey and Hill but the other cannot play, who do you select and who do you omit, and why?

 

[doppleganger]

I expect you'll ignore this but anyway:

Sam Iles ahead of Jack Riewoldt 2012?

Is this the supposedly unlucky to miss AA Jack!!?

Must have been way too many "joe the gooses" for Jack that year.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Shill trio Fadge Mr Meow & now doppleganger at their best here.

Facts: 2022 18 match in the season Lynch misses AA selection, Curnow with less average goals, less average goals + assists gets selected

the shills: Coleman winner, has to be selected

Facts: 2012 Coleman Medal winner Jack Riewoldt not selected AA.

Shills: Can't just go by total goals, selectors take all these other things into account.

 

[doppleganger]

If you are going into that game again, and you can choose one of DeGoey and Hill but the other cannot play, who do you select and who do you omit, and why?

What does that have to do with anything?

DeGoey had the highest player rating for Collingwood in the PF.

Bobby Hill had the highest player rating for Collingwood in the QF.

I am picking both.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

What does that have to do with anything?

DeGoey had the highest player rating for Collingwood in the PF.

Bobby Hill had the highest player rating for Collingwood in the QF.

I am picking both.

You saw the Grand Final performances.

The game starts again and you get to include one and not the other, which do you choose, and why?

doppleganger has called a temporary halt to his mockery of the player ratings system because he can see exactly where this is heading.

 

[kreuze_missile]

Stephen Silvagni retired in 2001. So its still him.

2nd is obviously Jacob Weitering

23

Jacob Weitering

Age

27

Ht

195cm

Wt

102kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.8

4star

K

9.1

4star

HB

4.7

3star

M

5.6

5star

T

1.3

3star

MG

189.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

16.8

4star

K

10.8

4star

HB

6.0

4star

M

6.0

5star

T

0.8

3star

MG

263.4

4star

.

Close 3rd is Michael Jamison

Michael Jamison

Age

38

Ht

193cm

Wt

97kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.4

3star

K

6.5

3star

HB

3.9

3star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.7

4star

MG

125.3

2star

No current season stats available

D

6.6

2star

K

4.0

2star

HB

2.6

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

1.4

4star

.