Roast Who should be our next coach? [melty]

[JayJ20]

What he does do, is tell your team they're 8 years off being winners. That type of shit has a huge impact on a club mentally. Look at our actual worst enemy, Sam Mitchell. Do you think that's the kind of language he uses on his playing group? No.

Yeah let's just continue the revolving door of coaches because it worked the last 6 times.

The club and players have been this way long before Scott in the same way Hawthorn have been that way long before Mitchell was coach.

Mitchell at Essendon would be returning exactly the same results as Scott regardless of whether it's an 8 year plan or a 2 year plan.

Blaming it on that is just an excuse for bad players with a long history of playing in a bad culture. The list needs a huge overhaul to keep all the committed players and remove the ordinary players willing to play for 1 quarter a week.

Spoiler alert, there isn't enough to fill the best 22.

 

[Yoda_]

Yeah let's just continue the revolving door of coaches because it worked the last 6 times.

The club and players have been this way long before Scott in the same way Hawthorn have been that way long before Mitchell was coach.

Mitchell at Essendon would be returning exactly the same results as Scott regardless of whether it's an 8 year plan or a 2 year plan.

Blaming it on that is just an excuse for bad players with a long history of playing in a bad culture. The list needs a huge overhaul to keep all the committed players.

its got nothing to do with he list management or so im told

 

[Seb78]

 

[JayJ20]

its got nothing to do with he list management or so im told

Of course it doesn't to the people that always blame the coaches so that the club becomes reactionary to the pressure and the playing list are let off the hook.

 

[ant555]

At some point, after 20 years of mediocrity and 8 full time coaches in 17 years, we might wonder if someone other than the coach is to blame.
For some, we are apparently not there yet.

Until then, If it makes you feel better, keep blaming the coach.

But blaming Scott for tonight's result is about as mindless as it gets. He didn't kick 1.9 in the final quarter.

 

[Schnitzengruben]

Can we blame Brad for us kicking 1.9 in the last? That would be harsh.

Can we blame Brad for us being neck and neck all night with a crap team who hasn't won an interstate game in their last 18 outings? Yeah we absolutely can. It's his job to set the standard around the club and he's responsible for the day to day, week to week - which ultimately shapes our players and our game style. Players simply manifest what their coach projects.

Absolving the coach of the coach of responsibility is as moronic as putting the entire blame on his shoulders.

 

[Groundhog Day]

At some point, after 20 years of mediocrity and 8 full time coaches in 17 years, we might wonder if someone other than the coach is to blame.
For some, we are apparently not there yet.

Until then, If it makes you feel better, keep blaming the coach.

But blaming Scott for tonight's result is about as mindless as it gets. He didn't kick 1.9 in the final quarter.

All very true, but if next year we are still running around with Laverde, Kelly, Cox, Menzie, Davey, Stringer plus having Heppell, Goldstein, Hind, Guelfi etc on the list, then maybe he takes a portion of the blame.

Only at Essendon, a club that is the very definition of mediocre, can list spots be ‘tight’. Scott has the opportunity (and responsibility) to cut this list to the bone.

 

[ghostdog]

All very true, but if next year we are still running around with Laverde, Kelly, Cox, Menzie, Davey, Stringer plus having Heppell, Goldstein, Hind, Guelfi etc on the list, then maybe he takes a portion of the blame.

Only at Essendon, a club that is the very definition of mediocre, can list spots be ‘tight’. Scott has the opportunity (and responsibility) to cut this list to the bone.

We're not going to turn over 10 players in one off season. Be realistic.

 

[Groundhog Day]

We're not going to turn over 10 players in one off season. Be realistic.

No, but that doesn’t mean he has to play them.

 

[ant555]

Can we blame Brad for us kicking 1.9 in the last? That would be harsh.

Can we blame Brad for us being neck and neck all night with a crap team who hasn't won an interstate game in their last 18 outings? Yeah we absolutely can. It's his job to set the standard around the club and he's responsible for the day to day, week to week - which ultimately shapes our players and our game style. Players simply manifest what their coach projects.

Absolving the coach of the coach of responsibility is as moronic as putting the entire blame on his shoulders.

Problem is we also lack the cattle.
I can cop the coach taking the blame on some team selection. He did **** the Melbourne game selection and there have been some you can question most weeks.
I can also accept the fact that we seem to be signing some of these guys to play on .
However game style comes down to what you have to play with and lets face it we are more Aston Martin Lagonda than Aston Martin DB12 .

 

[ghostdog]

No, but that doesn’t mean he has to play them.

He played Davey instead of Hind, because we need to get games into younger players, though he probably could have played Hind over Menzie.

Roberts played over Heppell.
Bryan played over Goldy.

Could have played Hayes over Laverde.

Cox has been better forward but Ridley is injured so unless you wanted Weideman, it had to be Cox.

Guelfi I think is injured.

Stringer or Perkins on current form?

I agree the list needs to be turned over but it isn't going to happen overnight. As well, there is an argument to be made that we need to lose to wake up our deluded list managers who seem to think it's all good to hand out extensive contracts to plodders and clubby favourites. Losing hurts, but in our ****ed up club and its blind board, I woukd argue it's necessary.

 

[Tassieboy]

Look, it’s an average list, with upside that never seems to arrive. I think we have at times overachieved these two years. But the next two years are very important. I think pressure will be intense if we don’t win a final next year. And I am not sure whether we can.

There’s three big issues:
1) No stars in this team.
2) Defence is very poor.
3) Forward line is dysfunctional.

You can’t fix the ‘star’ problem in one off-season.

I would think anyone is an improvement on an undersized and undercooked Laverde, but who is going take his role next year?

I don’t know where we start with the forwards. Menzie should not play again. He isn’t up to it. Our inside 50 pressure is much better with Davey, but 0.5 goals and 7 possessions a game is concerning. I don’t really get what Gresham adds, but he is a better play than Menzie and Davey. Our key forward, Peter Wright, is as soft as butter, and has finished the season in the magoos. Jones has played 50 games and we’ve kind of given up on him as a forward. Caddy has potential but he’s not going to kick 50 goals next year. Our two leading goalkickers - Stringer and Langford - are ‘undersized’ forwards who I don’t think can play in the same team. It’s a complete shit show. 3rd for inside 50s and nothing to show for it.

We can’t just blame the coach for these massive issues. We can blame him for playing Heppell and Goldstein, but not for the other issues - yet, anyway.

 

[ghostdog]

Look, it’s an average list, with upside that never seems to arrive. I think we have at times overachieved these two years. But the next two years are very important. I think pressure will be intense if we don’t win a final next year. And I am not sure whether we can.

There’s three big issues:
1) No stars in this team.
2) Defence is very poor.
3) Forward line is dysfunctional.

You can’t fix the ‘star’ problem in one off-season.

I would think anyone is an improvement on an undersized and undercooked Laverde, but who is going take his role next year?

I don’t know where we start with the forwards. Menzie should not play again. He isn’t up to it. Our inside 50 pressure is much better with Davey, but 0.5 goals and 7 possessions a game is concerning. I don’t really get what Gresham adds, but he is a better play than Menzie and Davey. Our key forward, Peter Wright, is as soft as butter, and has finished the season in the magoos. Jones has played 50 games and we’ve kind of given up on him as a forward. Caddy has potential but he’s not going to kick 50 goals next year. Our two leading goalkickers - Stringer and Langford - are ‘undersized’ forwards who I don’t think can play in the same team. It’s a complete shit show. 3rd for inside 50s and nothing to show for it.

We can’t just blame the coach for these massive issues. We can blame him for playing Heppell and Goldstein, but not for the other issues - yet, anyway.

Agree re: Laverde. VFL watchers may know whether Weideman can be reinvented as a kpd at the top level. Maybe Baldwin will be okay. If we don't go to one of the minor leagues and find someone, Lav may get another season.

Kako + natural development from one of the Daveys. Tex is apparently coming on now.

Re: KPF, it could be that we're looking at Draper and Caddy in the short term, with Bryan taking the ruck work. I thought Bryan looked much better than previously. He should take some confidence from the way he battled with Witts - he was smart at times.

Edit: Re: a star to build around; someone mentioned the idea of trading for Harley Reid, and I agree. Martin, Parish and a F1? I'd do it.

 

[TheGrizz]

All very true, but if next year we are still running around with Laverde, Kelly, Cox, Menzie, Davey, Stringer plus having Heppell, Goldstein, Hind, Guelfi etc on the list, then maybe he takes a portion of the blame.

Only at Essendon, a club that is the very definition of mediocre, can list spots be ‘tight’. Scott has the opportunity (and responsibility) to cut this list to the bone.

I would have thought watching Menzie, Gresham and Davey Jr over the last 10 games has helped people to realise how much we need Guelfi.

Basically our only small that routinely and unconditionally puts forward pressure on and competes at ground level when fit.

 

[ant555]

I would have thought watching Menzie, Gresham and Davey Jr over the last 10 games has helped people to realise how much we need Guelfi.

Basically our only small that routinely and unconditionally puts forward pressure on and competes at ground level when fit.

If you look at Gresham when he has played deep forward his pressure stats are pretty good. Problem is we have played him as the extra at the contest too many times this year. He had the most tackles inside 50 on the ground last night. Last week that was down but he kicked goals. The week before that he had good inside 50 tackle numbers.
he has his limitations with pace but in general he has been okay when he has actually played small forward.

 

[cobra land]

We could have Jesus coaching us and it wouldn't make any difference whatsoever and whist we have so many uncompetive players on our list, we will never be any good.

• McGrath
• Tsatas
• Weideman
• Cox
• Wright
• McKay
• A Davey
• J Davey
• Menzie

 

[Schnitzengruben]

Problem is we also lack the cattle.
I can cop the coach taking the blame on some team selection. He did **** the Melbourne game selection and there have been some you can question most weeks.
I can also accept the fact that we seem to be signing some of these guys to play on .
However game style comes down to what you have to play with and lets face it we are more Aston Martin Lagonda than Aston Martin DB12 .

We don't have the cattle to be a top 4 team consistently, but I refuse to believe we don't have the cattle to beat the Suns (twice), belted by St Kilda, and only scrape through against sides like the Eagles etc.

Compare us to Hawthorne. I think we've got a better list than them, but as a team, they are miles ahead of us. From ball movement to how they set up defensively, and their coordination going forward.

I think about lists in terms of how much are they playing to their potential. Hawks are playing a 9/10 if not 10/10. Collingwood last year the same, 10/10. What are we playing? It couldn't be more than a 6/10 for which the coach is at least partially responsible.

Not trying to rag on Scott btw, I like him and I acknowledge there are other issues too. But he's not innocent here either.

I think he's also responsible for giving meatsacks like Ben Jacobs and David Rath jobs too.

 

[Groundhog Day]

He played Davey instead of Hind, because we need to get games into younger players, though he probably could have played Hind over Menzie.

Roberts played over Heppell.
Bryan played over Goldy.

Could have played Hayes over Laverde.

Cox has been better forward but Ridley is injured so unless you wanted Weideman, it had to be Cox.

Guelfi I think is injured.

Stringer or Perkins on current form?

I agree the list needs to be turned over but it isn't going to happen overnight. As well, there is an argument to be made that we need to lose to wake up our deluded list managers who seem to think it's all good to hand out extensive contracts to plodders and clubby favourites. Losing hurts, but in our ****ed up club and its blind board, I woukd argue it's necessary.

An argument we need to lose? There’s no argument there, we lose and lose a lot.
I’m not knocking Scott and his match day selections (for the most part) and I don’t buy into the ‘he doesn’t play kids’ narrative but he needs to make some big calls.

I do wonder how much say he had in giving out those extensive contracts. If things keep going south those players will see him out the door.

If he is good enough and can turn this around over the next few years, he goes down as one of the top 10 most influential people in this club’s history.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

At some point, after 20 years of mediocrity and 8 full time coaches in 17 years, we might wonder if someone other than the coach is to blame.
For some, we are apparently not there yet.

Until then, If it makes you feel better, keep blaming the coach.

But blaming Scott for tonight's result is about as mindless as it gets. He didn't kick 1.9 in the final quarter.

to be fair, scott would still at his age, be a better shot for goal then some of our blokes.

 

[outersanctum]

The loss isnt 100% on scott but some blame sits with him. Poor selections, poor game plan and no accountability.

Hawthorn has zoomed past us. We are officially a basketcase.

Not sure scott is the right man for the job.

 

[ant555]

We don't have the cattle to be a top 4 team consistently, but I refuse to believe we don't have the cattle to beat the Suns (twice), belted by St Kilda, and only scrape through against sides like the Eagles etc.

Compare us to Hawthorne. I think we've got a better list than them, but as a team, they are miles ahead of us. From ball movement to how they set up defensively, and their coordination going forward.

I think about lists in terms of how much are they playing to their potential. Hawks are playing a 9/10 if not 10/10. Collingwood last year the same, 10/10. What are we playing? It couldn't be more than a 6/10 for which the coach is at least partially responsible.

Not trying to rag on Scott btw, I like him and I acknowledge there are other issues too. But he's not innocent here either.

I think he's also responsible for giving meatsacks like Ben Jacobs and David Rath jobs too.

I actually do not think we have a better list.
As for losing to the GC twice or the Saints . That is what average sides do.

 

[div12ressie]

Dont get why everyone brushes off the first 3 quarters of the game, we were pretty putrid and kept Gold Coast in it all game. It shouldn't come down to us kicking poorly in the last quarter to lose the game.

It's fking Gold Coast for fks sake, in Melbourne too!

 

[ant555]

Dont get why everyone brushes off the first 3 quarters of the game, we were pretty putrid and kept Gold Coast in it all game. It shouldn't come down to us kicking poorly in the last quarter to lose the game.

It's fking Gold Coast for fks sake, in Melbourne too!

Maybe because we are not a good side and average sides play like that. **** me. Did you tip us to make the 8 ?

 

[div12ressie]

Maybe because we are not a good side and average sides play like that. **** me. Did you tip us to make the 8 ?

not at the start of the year but half way through i thought we'd at least make the 8. thought the players/coach learned from last year

 

[Phone]

not at the start of the year but half way through i thought we'd at least make the 8. thought the players/coach learned from last year

yeah but that's your fault