Coach Who should be our next coach?

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15/8 Board toppled (reportedly will pursue Clarkson)
19/8 Alastair Clarkson to join North
21/8 Ben Rutten sacked
22/8 Coach selection sub-committee to be established to find a replacement
26/8 Committee members announced: Josh Mahoney (GM-Footy, chair), Dorothy Hisgrove (Board member), Andrew Thorburn, Simone McKinnis, Robert Walls, Jordan Lewis
7/9 James Hird, Dean Solomon, Brendon Lade, Adem Yze interviewed at EY
13/9 Daniel Giansiracusa reportedly interviewed
17/9 Don Pyke “not pursuing that at this stage”
21/9 Brad Scott contacted by the club but won’t make a decision on whether to pursue the role until after the Grand Final
21/9 Adem Yze has second interview and tours the training facilities at Tullamarine
22/9 Blake Caracella will put his hat in the ring
27/9 Brendon Lade appointed as assistant coach at the Western Bulldogs, out of the running for Essendon job
28/9 Brad Scott to be interviewed on Thursday
29/9
 
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Runk said:
Should the external review panel (for whatever reason) decide Hird is the best candidate available are people happy for the club to follow through on that appointment?
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The topic of Hird is rarely looked at without emotion and is highly polarising. I think most on here don't want Hird no matter what.

In answer to your question, I'd be happy.

But I'd be happier if we had a stronger candidate pool to begin with and I'd prefer someone other than Hird was the clear best candidate in a unanimous decision.

What I'm worried about is a weak candidate pool regardless of who is selected.
 
Mr Mojo Risin said:
For sure, but when it comes to Hird it's seems like people cannot even bring themselves to think about the hypothetical, which in itself says a lot.
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I think it says the hypothetical seems so far fetched to most as to be virtually impossible.
 

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Runk said:
Should the external review panel (for whatever reason) decide Hird is the best candidate available are people happy for the club to follow through on that appointment?
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I'd be highly sceptical that Hird could come through a process and be the best qualified candidate, so it would take a lot more detail in explanations from guys like Walls and Lewis to provide the background as to how they decide a guy with an OK-but-not-great record as Senior Coach, who got the playing group suspended for a year, who's had 6 months of part-time coaching experience in 7 years since being dismissed from his role, was the best option.

If a guy like Scott and/or Pyke are also in the running, they'd be head and shoulder above Hird as candidates IMO.
 
Mr Mojo Risin said:
That's irrelevant for a hypothetical. What's interesting is not even being able to consider it.
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The likelihood of a hypothetical is irrelevant?

Weird take.
 
owen87 said:
Laugh Lol GIF by Minions


I respect plenty of people's experience.

Just not yours.
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Difficult news to absorb tbh
 
MiguelM said:
Why?

No one but the panel can make that call.

That is just your opinion based on bias.
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Bias towards having an up to date football experience to reference.

If the panel come to that conclusion, they understand nothing but cronyism and surface level charm. Which wouldn't surprise me in the slightest given this city.
 
MiguelM said:
Why?

No one but the panel can make that call.

That is just your opinion based on bias.
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Yes. Nobody else can look at a person's coaching record and make a judgement call. This information is available only to the panel.
 
owen87 said:
I'd be highly sceptical that Hird could come through a process and be the best qualified candidate, so it would take a lot more detail in explanations from guys like Walls and Lewis to provide the background as to how they decide a guy with an OK-but-not-great record as Senior Coach, who got the playing group suspended for a year, who's had 6 months of part-time coaching experience in 7 years since being dismissed from his role, was the best option.

If a guy like Scott and/or Pyke are also in the running, they'd be head and shoulder above Hird as candidates IMO.
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Regarding Hird's record as senior coach, the events surrounding it are so unusual that it's extremely hard to quantify.

You could go the eth route of looking at numbers of specific stats in isolation without context. It raises good points and keeps emotion out of it but has it's drawbacks.

You could go the win/loss route for all his games and arrive at a win percentage of 48.8, which amongst current coaches has him around Brett Ratten and well ahead of Voss and Rutten.

You could strike games out based on context (remove the last 6 games of 2013 where they knew they had nothing to play for and everything after round 6 in 2015 when WADA announced their appeal and the bottom fell out), which gives him a win percentage of 58.3 putting him with Hinkley, Goodwin, Simpson, Hardwick and Beveridge.

You could assess all of the above together and talk to those who may know his chops as a senior coach like Thompson, Goodwin, McCartney etc and come to another conclusion.

It's all very hard to quantify. I thought he was a good coach that showed signs of being a very good coach.

I agree with Scott and Pyke though. I want them to apply because then it's simpler to compare the candidates. If you want experience in the senior job then I don't think Hird would beat out Scott or Pyke. If experience in the senior job doesn't matter, then you'd think Yze has the edge.
 

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CBombers17 said:
Difficult news to absorb tbh
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We could go back and forth all day about this, but you repeatedly feel the need to assert you 'I work in recruitment' credentials, your 'I know how external reviews work' credentials all whilst shitcanning everything the club does.

It's the Kane Cornes method; naysay everything and anything so that eventually you can go 'I told you so' if anything even peripherally looks like you were close to being right on a small percentage of them.

Sorry if I have limited time or respect for that.

Meanwhile, we have some genuinely fantastic posters, with genuinely great experience, that have drastically improved my depth of knowledge and insight about things who I have a lot of respect for their views on, whether we agree or disagree.
 
Red Black and Blue said:
Bias towards having an up to date football experience to reference.

If the panel come to that conclusion, they understand nothing but cronyism and surface level charm. Which wouldn't surprise me in the slightest given this city.
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boncer34 said:
Yes. Nobody else can look at a person's coaching record and make a judgement call. This information is available only to the panel.
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Talking about the recommendation. They would look at what is in front of them. Nobody else but the panel have that decision.

Who knows how up to date Hird is on Footy knowledge?

For the record, I would have Scott before Hird, maybe Pyke just because of the baggage..

Just my 2c, whoever it is I don't think we will pick an assistant with no senior exp. Of course, I am just guessing like everyone else.
 
Mr Mojo Risin said:
Regarding Hird's record as senior coach, the events surrounding it are so unusual that it's extremely hard to quantify.

You could go the eth route of looking at numbers of specific stats in isolation without context. It raises good points and keeps emotion out of it but has it's drawbacks.

You could go the win/loss route for all his games and arrive at a win percentage of 48.8, which amongst current coaches has him around Brett Ratten and well ahead of Voss and Rutten.

You could strike games out based on context (remove the last 6 games of 2013 where they knew they had nothing to play for and everything after round 6 in 2015 when WADA announced their appeal and the bottom fell out), which gives him a win percentage of 58.3% putting him with Hinkley, Goodwin, Simpson, Hardwick and Beveridge.

You could assess all of the above together and talk to those who may know his chops as a senior coach like Thompson, Goodwin, McCartney etc and come to another conclusion.

It's all very hard to quantify. I thought he was a good coach that showed signs of being a very good coach.

I agree with Scott and Pyke though. I want them to apply because then it's simpler to compare the candidates. If you want experience in the senior job then I don't think Hird would beat out Scott or Pyke. If experience in the senior job doesn't matter, then you'd think Yze has the edge.
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I don't think the list did anything under Hird that you wouldn't have expected from our list profile;

2012 - 2014 we were about mid-table for games played and age across the playing group as compared to the rest of the competition, had 2 x AA Defenders and an AA / Brownlow Medallist* Inside Midfield beast. We were about mid-table for games won, with the best season being 2013 where we had some great wins but still struggled against the genuine Top-4 sides for the most part, and never looked to be a particular good side defensively in any of the seasons Hird was coach.

He gets a massive ? about his ability as coach because of how disrupted the seasons he coached were due to the whole doping programme that he incidentally was part of getting the players involved in. He never had to deal with a rebuilding list during his time in charge so his win percentage is as much a representation of a list profile that was moderately experienced and finished sounds about where you'd expect a team of that age and experience to finish anyway.
 
Playing Devil’s advocate, and I’m not supporting a Hird return, he’d have the right personality for the job even excluding the fact of the coterie groups lining up to perform unthinkable deeds on Hird.

Second thing going for him is that if successful, Damien Barrett can also perform unthinkable deeds on Hird.
 
owen87 said:
We could go back and forth all day about this, but you repeatedly feel the need to assert you 'I work in recruitment' credentials, your 'I know how external reviews work' credentials all whilst shitcanning everything the club does.

It's the Kane Cornes method; naysay everything and anything so that eventually you can go 'I told you so' if anything even peripherally looks like you were close to being right on a small percentage of them.

Sorry if I have limited time or respect for that.

Meanwhile, we have some genuinely fantastic posters, with genuinely great experience, that have drastically improved my depth of knowledge and insight about things who I have a lot of respect for their views on, whether we agree or disagree.
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I'm pretty balanced and I do have certainexperiences I share for the benefit of the discussion. I go very early (and often against popular opinion) and stick by my opinion if I think it's solid, or change my mind or admit i don't know - if I don't know.

You are a child mind (just look at your previous 5 year old calibre post) who cherry picks parts of posts to respond to (lacking the integrity or courtesy or ability to take on parts out of your scope - which there are many. You frequently speak with great confidence on matters you know nothing about and to make it worse lack the courage required to admit when you are wrong - something I will happily do here if that is the case.
 
owen87 said:
I don't think the list did anything under Hird that you wouldn't have expected from our list profile;

2012 - 2014 we were about mid-table for games played and age across the playing group as compared to the rest of the competition, had 2 x AA Defenders and an AA / Brownlow Medallist* Inside Midfield beast. We were about mid-table for games won, with the best season being 2013 where we had some great wins but still struggled against the genuine Top-4 sides for the most part, and never looked to be a particular good side defensively in any of the seasons Hird was coach.

He gets a massive ? about his ability as coach because of how disrupted the seasons he coached were due to the whole doping programme that he incidentally was part of getting the players involved in. He never had to deal with a rebuilding list during his time in charge so his win percentage is as much a representation of a list profile that was moderately experienced and finished sounds about where you'd expect a team of that age and experience to finish anyway.
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Yep, hard to quantify and depends on context of list, progression from the start etc.

Regarding the saga, all that really matters is what the club thinks internally of Hird's involvement etc.

Whately specifically asked the question to Lewis about can he ignore the past when it comes to Hird, Lewis said you have to ignore it for all candidates.

Whether that's just lip service we don't know, but it seems like any judgement on his ability to coach will attempt to ignore that.
 
Vander18 said:
The FU to the whole football world is quite appealing.
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Yep. I want a strong candidate pool that selects a better coach than Hird, even though I personally think he has what it takes to be a very good coach.

But.....the response to him having the gall to apply for the job has part of me wanting to see him coach for sheer entertainment and F U to everyone else.
 
Mr Mojo Risin said:
Yep, hard to quantify and depends on context of list, progression from the start etc.

Regarding the saga, all that really matters is what the club thinks internally of Hird's involvement etc.

Whately specifically asked the question to Lewis about can he ignore the past when it comes to Hird, Lewis said you have to ignore it for all candidates.

Whether that's just lip service we don't know, but it seems like any judgement on his ability to coach will attempt to ignore that.
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I think from the position of where it appears the process is at from Lewis' comments, you simply have to look at relevant experience and credentials alongside the applicants view or vision for the club / team / organisation at the preliminary stages, but there's a point where you'd have to consider 'other' things before making a final recommendation. Lewis has an existing friendship / connection to Yze so he'd have to try to keep any bias there in check as well.
 
MiguelM said:
Talking about the recommendation. They would look at what is in front of them. Nobody else but the panel have that decision.

Who knows how up to date Hird is on Footy knowledge?
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Football knowledge is secondary to demonstrating it in industry practice.

The fact he hasn't gone out and done an apprenticeship yet still feels qualified to lead the club is evidence in itself; that he's still the same cocksure man that got us into hell.
 
Doss said:
After 20 years of utter s**t-encrusted garbage, nah let’s not try and face up to the fact it’s not 2001 anymore.

Let’s just light the fuse and see what happens!

I read things like this and it’s hard not to conclude our fans are just, en masse, utterly defeated.
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Every single coach Essendon's had has said "trust the system, learnings, it takes years and hard work", while collingwood, tigers, dees, have all proven it can be done relatively quickly. Other teams are consistently doing well. So what, throw out Dodoro, Sheedy, overhaul everything, muh coteries, get Yze, then it's all gonna click? It seems all you need is a good coach, and an aligned footy department. I don't think you'll get that with an overhaul, the hierarchy will be completely unstable initially.

On the other hand you have The Chosen One. He's proven he can make gold out of stone with that year Essendon were 2nd going into round 18, the only team to beat Freo in WA that year. He thinks Essendon is special, and looking at Collingwood this year, with the slander Ned Guy got after setting them up for this, does it matter what others think? This could blow up badly, and then the old guard admits fault and the already pissed fans will bay for blood; or it could go off like Gandalf's fireworks and we see something like 2013. I guess some players may be worried they'll be injected with experimental vaccines or some such, but he's learned his lesson on that one. It's worth a go I reckon.
 
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