Coach Who should be our next coach?

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15/8 Board toppled (reportedly will pursue Clarkson)
19/8 Alastair Clarkson to join North
21/8 Ben Rutten sacked
22/8 Coach selection sub-committee to be established to find a replacement
26/8 Committee members announced: Josh Mahoney (GM-Footy, chair), Dorothy Hisgrove (Board member), Andrew Thorburn, Simone McKinnis, Robert Walls, Jordan Lewis
7/9 James Hird, Dean Solomon, Brendon Lade, Adem Yze interviewed at EY
13/9 Daniel Giansiracusa reportedly interviewed
17/9 Don Pyke “not pursuing that at this stage”
21/9 Brad Scott contacted by the club but won’t make a decision on whether to pursue the role until after the Grand Final
21/9 Adem Yze has second interview and tours the training facilities at Tullamarine
22/9 Blake Caracella will put his hat in the ring
27/9 Brendon Lade appointed as assistant coach at the Western Bulldogs, out of the running for Essendon job
28/9 Brad Scott to be interviewed on Thursday
29/9
 
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Xyle01 said:
You keep throwing this out there as if he only has his name because he is royalty of some kind. He made his own name through his achievements and the person he is, not just because he was a great player. We have had many great players in this club, but James Hird earned his stature because of his intelligence, the way he conducts himself and the way communicates with people and the broader public.
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Nope, he made his name because he was a great player. Everything else feeds off that.

Andrew Welsh is seemingly a smart guy, has made a shitload of money post-football, but he's not revered as EFC royalty.

James Hird is one of EFC's greatest ever players. His stature is because of what he did on-field, not off it.
 
owen87 said:
I couldn't really care less how a coach presents in the media, it's pretty irrelevant.

Getting players to go out and play for you is nice, but modern football requires system based gameplay. Hird hasn't demonstrated he can do that, and hasn't had any relevant experience in seven years that would suggest he's learned how to do that.

Meanwhile Yze has worked at two clubs during Premiership years, including time spent under one of the greatest AFL coaches of all time.

Graham has extensive experience at three AFL clubs, with very distinct playstyles, and appears to be a key part of why the Eagles had the best functioning forwardline in the AFL for years.

Hird has 'being James Hird' as his main qualification.
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Systems are great because they enable you to win games when your effort and emotion isn't at the highest level, which is difficult to produce week in / week out.

But teams don't win premierships on system alone, you need the system and emotional motivation to play for something more than yourself or your pay packet.

You also don't need experience in the coaches box to design systems, just an intricate knowledge of the game, creativity and to understand how to deliver the message to players to implement the system.

Graham, Yze or whoever else are unknown quantities when it comes to the motivational side of things. They are also unknown in their ability to be the boss as opposed to a team member. They are enormously different roles.

Hird has far more than 'Hird' being his qualification. For everyone who wants him hired because he's James Hird, there are people who don't want him hired because he is James Hird. There is not a lot of logical reasoned discussion at all when it comes to the topic of Hird.

Again, Essendon is not the club to be hiring Hird now unless he legitmately wins a proper process and I don't personally think that time is now, but to ignore the very real qualities and skills Hird brings to the table while ignoring the downsides to Yze and Graham etc as candidates doesn't paint a picture of looking at the situation without emotion.
 
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eth-dog said:
Voss at least had a small amount of success when he was coach the first time. And last I checked, Carlton missed the 8 this year so I wouldn't call Voss a definite success at this point.

I'm not denying that he's an excellent assistant coach but he was demonstrably poor as a senior coach. Guys with that sort of record don't get a second chance.
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Voss got close to finals largely with a topped up list from the 3peat side iirc.
Leppa had basket case Lions, as they turned a bit of their list over.

eth-dog said:
I'm starting to move towards Jaymie Graham as my preferred coach. To add to the above, he was apparently at West Coast as a "forwards development coach" in 2014 and 2015, which is right around the time Jamie Cripps became a very good half forward, Josh Kennedy had claims to being the second best forward in the game, unfortunately Darling was injured for most of those two years, but hell, Josh Hill kicked 40 goals in a year back then.

Really feel like he could get guys like Jones and Baldwin to take the next step and even hopefully get Stringer a lot more consistent.
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Im the same. Has McRae vibes for some reason. Right time, right sort of person.
 

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Agree with all of this, BUT...We have Walls and Lewis on the panel, particularly Lewis who has media exposure to defend the process etc...I think this would help a lot if the below outcome occurred.
Mr Mojo Risin said:
I think Hird will be an excellent head coach if given the chance again. IF he went through the proper process and Walls, Lewis etc nominate him as their strong recommendation I'd be happy for him to coach us.

But it would come with serious doubts that it was a proper process from me and others that would cause a lot of noise. I do worry about his mental health if things didn't go so well but ultimately if he decides he can and he was chosen under correct process I'd get behind him.

I just have serious doubts about any of the above occurring and think if he becomes our coach it won't be because of proper process, which we desperately need.
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Mr Mojo Risin said:
Systems are great because they enable you to win games when you're effort and emotion isn't at the highest level, which is difficult to produce week in / week out.

But teams don't win premierships on system alone, you need the system and emotional motivation to play for something more than yourself or your pay packet.

You also don't need experience in the coaches box to design systems, just an intricate knowledge of the game, creativity and to understand how to deliver the message to players to implement the system.

Graham, Yze or whoever else are unknown quantities when it comes to the motivational side of things. They are also unknown in their ability to be the boss as opposed to a team member. They are enormously different roles.

Hird has far more than 'Hird' being his qualification. For everyone who wants him hired because he's James Hird, there are people who don't want him hired because he is James Hird. There is not a lot of logical reasoned discussion at all when it comes to the topic of Hird.

Again, Essendon is not the club to be hiring Hird now unless he legitmately wins a proper process and I don't personally think that time is now, but to ignore the very real qualities and skills Hird brings to the table while ignoring the downsides to Yze and Graham etc as candidates doesn't paint a picture of looking at the situation without emotion.
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No, systems win you the game. Teams that play on effort and emotion each week end up like GWS, where - coincidentally - Hird's only coaching experience in the past 7 years has been.

Hawthorn and Richmond played to a system, where yes effort and application of that system is necessary, which is why Rutten failed despite being a key part of the Richmond defensive system so (should) understand how a system looks, but system trumps emotion long-term.

Nothing I ever saw from Hird suggested he could coach a system, or a strong defensive side. Nothing I ever saw from Hird suggests he's worth the baggage he'd bring with him.
 
owen87 said:
Nope, he made his name because he was a great player. Everything else feeds off that.

Andrew Welsh is seemingly a smart guy, has made a shitload of money post-football, but he's not revered as EFC royalty.

James Hird is one of EFC's greatest ever players. His stature is because of what he did on-field, not off it.
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This is a very simplistic and one-dimensional way of looking at things. But to simply torpedo this argument, please explain to me then why Gary Ablett does not carry the same reverence off the field? Or if you want to be specific to Essendon, there are many great player names that could be thrown around but are never considered in the same light as James Hird.
 
owen87 said:
No, systems win you the game. Teams that play on effort and emotion each week end up like GWS, where - coincidentally - Hird's only coaching experience in the past 7 years has been.

Hawthorn and Richmond played to a system, where yes effort and application of that system is necessary, which is why Rutten failed despite being a key part of the Richmond defensive system so (should) understand how a system looks, but system trumps emotion long-term.

Nothing I ever saw from Hird suggested he could coach a system, or a strong defensive side. Nothing I ever saw from Hird suggests he's worth the baggage he'd bring with him.
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I said that systems win you games so not sure what you read. Systems alone don’t win you premierships.

In any case we’ve already agreed to disagree on Hird but I’m simply pointing out that I think you’re making the opposite mistake to those don’t see anything wrong with Hird because he is Hird, that you don’t see anything good because he is Hird.
 
Xyle01 said:
This is a very simplistic and one-dimensional way of looking at things. But to simply torpedo this argument, please explain to me then why Gary Ablett does not carry the same reverence off the field? Or if you want to be specific to Essendon, there are many great player names that could be thrown around but are never considered in the same light as James Hird.
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Which Gary Ablett? Senior destroyed his reputation by being a pretty bad person off-field and was never a noted leader or face of the club beyond doing the magical on-field. Junior has always been fairly reclusive and spent half his career at Geelong and half at GCS, he'd be even more revered at Geelong had he spent it all there.

Hird is up there with Coleman & Reynolds as the greatest player to have ever pulled on the jumper, and the only one currently alive, that played in the fully professional era, that played in a time when most of us posting remember. You're drastically underselling just how big his legacy as a player is.
 
Xyle01 said:
He made his own name through his achievements
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This

Xyle01 said:
not just because he was a great player.
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is the same as this


And I have to disagree about the other things you've pointed out. There isn't much to suggest he is particularly intelligent when it comes to running footy clubs. And as far as the person he is - it's a mixed bag imo. He is the ultimate competitor and I see how that can be a motivator for people around him, but he absolutely thought nothing could touch him. He was blinded by his own magnificence.
 
Mr Mojo Risin said:
I said that systems win you games so not sure what you read. Systems alone don’t win you premierships.

In any case we’ve already agreed to disagree on Hird but I’m simply pointing out that I think you’re making the opposite mistake to those don’t see anything wrong with Hird because he is Hird, that you don’t see anything good because he is Hird.
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Untrue;

owen87 said:
He's a good speaker in the media, players did appear to like him and be willing to play for him, and he certainly has 'gravitas' but that's as much about what made him a good Captain as it is anything else.
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eth-dog said:
I'm starting to move towards Jaymie Graham as my preferred coach. To add to the above, he was apparently at West Coast as a "forwards development coach" in 2014 and 2015, which is right around the time Jamie Cripps became a very good half forward, Josh Kennedy had claims to being the second best forward in the game, unfortunately Darling was injured for most of those two years, but hell, Josh Hill kicked 40 goals in a year back then.

Really feel like he could get guys like Jones and Baldwin to take the next step and even hopefully get Stringer a lot more consistent.
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Graham has certainly been in the right places when improvement or success has occurred in different places to suggest he's bringing something good to the table.

In the end all I want is for this process to be run properly which causes the club to have the confidence they have the right coach to back in for several years through pressure and ups and downs. If we get everyone working together and moving in the one direction and run the club professionally, we put whoever the coach is in a great position to succeed.
 

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owen87 said:
Which Gary Ablett? Senior destroyed his reputation by being a pretty bad person off-field and was never a noted leader or face of the club beyond doing the magical on-field. Junior has always been fairly reclusive and spent half his career at Geelong and half at GCS, he'd be even more revered at Geelong had he spent it all there.

Hird is up there with Coleman & Reynolds as the greatest player to have ever pulled on the jumper, and the only one currently alive, that played in the fully professional era, that played in a time when most of us posting remember. You're drastically underselling just how big his legacy as a player is.
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So what you are saying is, it is not just on field attributes which determine why someone can be held in such high regard by many off the field?
 
A lot of people talking about resumes and CV's on here. Fact is they mean squat in the grand scheme of things. Plenty of people have naturally worked their way up the ladder and had a plethora of experience only for someone less experienced or new to the job to be the better operator. How you present as a person, how you convey a message and your overall way of planning and thinking carry much more weight than what is written on a piece of paper.
 
citizen-erased said:
Reasons why I wanted Nick Riewoldt nowhere near our review;
www.foxsports.com.au

‘It does sadden me’: St Kilda great says Bombers ‘reluctance’ sealed Lyon’s coaching call

‘It does sadden me’: St Kilda great reveals the Bombers’ move that sealed Lyon’s coaching call
www.foxsports.com.au www.foxsports.com.au

exists to be a Lyon fanboy.
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****ing spare me, so it's our fault for running a process and not just giving him the job? Lyons ego wouldn't have fit through the front door of the place. If he really wanted the job he would have backed himself and put his balls on the line to get it.
 
isthisit13 said:
******* spare me, so it's our fault for running a process and not just giving him the job? Lyons ego wouldn't have fit through the front door of the place. If he really wanted the job he would have backed himself and put his balls on the line to get it.
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i also like that its our fault for not being fully committed to a guy who can't commit to being assessed against other options.....and we're the shambles.
 
I've been sitting back and reading all the comments on who should be the next coach and FWIW here is my two bob's worth.
If James Hird is seen to be the best candidate and is fully committed I'm all in, he is the one person who could unite the club when the walls are falling around the place.
He builds great relationships and whether he's been out of the system for a long period or not he knows what the modern game requires.
He's been there and knows what a united Essendon looks like having being a part of our last successful era.
The GWS players love him and Jason McCartney has given him a glowing report saying that the players hang on to his every word and players like Toby Greene rave about his his football brain and how much he's learnt under him.
Brendan Goddard is on record as saying he thought Hird was a great coach as well and he had played under Lyon previously.
Ross Lyon was the best candidate but chose not to go through the process or was not interested, a bullet dodged in my opinion.
A lot of posters are more worried about the flack we would get from media and opposition supporters, so what I couldn't give two F$#ks about them.
We are getting kicked whilst we are down anyway and have done so for a long long time so nothing changes there.
In my opinion, I honestly think Hird would be a great appointment not on sentiment but because he is the best candidate, none of the others fill me with any confidence that they are the one.
My only concern is would be his mental health, could he and his family survive the backlash that would accompany his appointment ?
He's paid a heavy enough price and should at least be afforded the opportunity to apply if that's what he wishes.
 
Xyle01 said:
So what you are saying is, it is not just on field attributes which determine why someone can be held in such high regard by many off the field?
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Since it was unclear the first time, I've bolded the relevant section for you;

owen87 said:
Nope, he made his name because he was a great player. Everything else feeds off that.
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TheGreatBarryB said:
Poor judge of character if he's hanging around Shane Charters for years.
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Hard to argue with that. I know many people who are wonderful people and highly intelligent who simply are shit at judging others and often make the worst friends, always believing the best in them.

You'd hope he's learnt a bit about that by now.
 
Mr Mojo Risin said:
So why do you keep saying the only qualification Hird brings is being 'James Hird'?

Clearly you don't think that.
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But that's the thing, being James Hird is what gives him gravitas. It's his achievements as a player, not as a coach that make people want him.

They see James Hird, the player, the leader, the Essendon great.

If you isolated his coaching career you'd see a guy who achieved OK but not great results, produced a team that was defensively poor that couldn't match it with the top teams of the time, and that never played a system-based style of game which is what the modern game demands.

So everyone arguing pro James Hird is doing it because he's James Hird, Essendon Champion and past-player.

If he was Scott West, or Shane Crawford, or Chris Judd, people would say his coaching record and experience doesn't stack up against other options out there.

All of this without even getting in to the baggage he'd bring.
 
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