Coach Who should be our next coach?

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15/8 Board toppled (reportedly will pursue Clarkson)
19/8 Alastair Clarkson to join North
21/8 Ben Rutten sacked
22/8 Coach selection sub-committee to be established to find a replacement
26/8 Committee members announced: Josh Mahoney (GM-Footy, chair), Dorothy Hisgrove (Board member), Andrew Thorburn, Simone McKinnis, Robert Walls, Jordan Lewis
7/9 James Hird, Dean Solomon, Brendon Lade, Adem Yze interviewed at EY
13/9 Daniel Giansiracusa reportedly interviewed
17/9 Don Pyke “not pursuing that at this stage”
21/9 Brad Scott contacted by the club but won’t make a decision on whether to pursue the role until after the Grand Final
21/9 Adem Yze has second interview and tours the training facilities at Tullamarine
22/9 Blake Caracella will put his hat in the ring
27/9 Brendon Lade appointed as assistant coach at the Western Bulldogs, out of the running for Essendon job
28/9 Brad Scott to be interviewed on Thursday
29/9
 
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footyfanatic111 said:
How is as good an option as anyone? He’s been in a coaching box for 3 months out of the last 6 years. That’s a ridiculous statement, there’s many who have done their time consistently in the afl system far more qualified than James.

Redemption for the 34? They’re lucky to be like 3 people left from the 34?? Which is my point, it’s living in the past. Nearly everyone on that list wasn’t even at the club when the saga happened, talk about galvanising them, they don’t have that connection to hirdy that 34 had. Its a broken record that’s playing the same movie over again.

Honestly if he went through a proper process and they said he’s the best avaliable then of course everyone would get behind him.. but he will never be selected under a proper process. It will only happen as a messiah acquisition clutching on the heart strings of the Essendon heirachy. As such I can’t see it happening and im not advocating for it.

Onwards and upwards gents - time to move on
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Riduculous statement??? This is Essendon we are talking about. Just because they have done more time, doesn't make them more qualified. I have had positions above those "just because they have the papers to say they are qualified" than those that dont. How qualified was our last coach before he was cut loose?

As far as living in the past, he is not only a club legend, but an AFL legend. To think that he would not have any influence over the current players, purely because he retired 15 years ago is naive. His name is synonymous with Essendon.

And yes, he has something to prove, which doesn't only apply to himself, but the 34 other personnel who were wronged by the AFL/ASADA process, as well as the club in general.

I'm more than happy to go through the formal process the club has put in place. But, onwards and upwards to who exactly? Yze? Solomon? McViegh? How many coaches with senior experience have knocked us back? So...why didn't we wait for thr external review to see if Rutten was the man or not? So, due to our inconmpeance, there appears to be slim pickings due to the timings of this b.s.

Should have happened 6 months ago, or 6 months in the future, not now with timelines in place due to drafting etc.

The timing of Sheedy crossing the floor to sack Rutten, Dildoro still seemingly holding a major stake behind the scenes, as well as certain members of coteries holding onto one of the club greats...Do not be surprised if we see JH as our next coach.
 
Players who were under Hird as coach that are still there: Langford, Merrett, Laverde and Heppell
 
isthisit13 said:
The whole membership argument is moot. Couldn't give a flying * if our membership went up, I want to win games of footy. Funnily enough doing that would actually solve that problem too.
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Hang on, I was about to buy 2 pet memberships for next year year. Are you saying their membership counts for nought, even with the cute scarf wearing obligatory photo.☹ Funnily enough, as much as I try, my Dogs could not give a flying **** as to whether the Bombers win or lose! Maybe a sneaky trip to the pound might give them a reality check, or worse still...the FARM!!!
 

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Daisy..1 said:
I bet you would be one of those that if he came back and was successful you would say " I ALWAYS WANTED HIM" much like the Lyon supporters on here that as soon as he said NOT INTERESTED....OOOh Never wanted him anyway...... Now all on YZE (untried)...he will be signed up and not to us within a week....You think any untried coach from the outside will put their hand up with our History? Its Snr Coaching potential suicide......Someone on here give me a true recommendation of who we should be after and why?
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Give me a spell

Hird could be a good coach again and was a good coach at essendon before everything turned pear shaped. Does that mean he’s ready to come and coach any afl team and especially essendon, no. Could he one day be a senior coach again, yes. He needs years in the system though, he needs hours on the job. He has all the skills to make a great coach, but hasn’t refined any of them. Even when he got the job the first time, it was moreorless bomber running all the strategy for him and hird was the figure head and communicated the message across to the players. If he wants to coach go do 2-3 years as a full time assistant somewhere and get some experience. You can’t just walk back into the game after 8 years with 2 months of coaching experience and get another senior job, it’s idiotic to think that.
 
eth-dog said:
Let's have a serious look at Hird's coaching record.

In 2011 he managed to scrape into finals by winning 11 games off the back of a soft draw in a side that conceded a goal 28.44% of the time it entered defensive 50 (4th worst in the AFL) to get smashed by our arch rivals in the first week of finals.
In 2012, take away the drug stuff, we finished 11-11 and conceded a goal 25.56% of the time it entered our defensive 50, which is better but it's still really bad for the modern game, missed finals after falling in a hole, losing 8 of the last 9 games by an average of 9 goals.
In 2013 obviously the drug stuff broke. However, let's look at the crucial area here again, the defence. Conceded a goal 26.15% of the time it entered defensive 50. Lost 5 of the last 6 by an average of 9 goals again.
When he returned in 2015 we were crap again, and conceded a goal 25.72% of the time it entered defensive 50. Won 2 games after round 9, andaverage losing margin of 8 goals.

James Hird was an average coach. That, combined with all the baggage that comes with it... Why would you do it?
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I agree with you on some stuff
But you are leaving out critical pieces to your analysis
Like in the 2nd half of 2012 we had a plethora of soft tissue injuries due to the weapons S&c program
And in 2015 we started the season really well and it was only the announcement that wada was appealing and it was likely the players would be suspended that sent the season into a tail spin. Wada doesn’t appeal, it’s likely that hird is still coaching (well he would’ve last a lot longer than 10 weeks)
 
eth-dog said:
Let's have a serious look at Hird's coaching record.

In 2011 he managed to scrape into finals by winning 11 games off the back of a soft draw in a side that conceded a goal 28.44% of the time it entered defensive 50 (4th worst in the AFL) to get smashed by our arch rivals in the first week of finals.
In 2012, take away the drug stuff, we finished 11-11 and conceded a goal 25.56% of the time it entered our defensive 50, which is better but it's still really bad for the modern game, missed finals after falling in a hole, losing 8 of the last 9 games by an average of 9 goals.
In 2013 obviously the drug stuff broke. However, let's look at the crucial area here again, the defence. Conceded a goal 26.15% of the time it entered defensive 50. Lost 5 of the last 6 by an average of 9 goals again.
When he returned in 2015 we were crap again, and conceded a goal 25.72% of the time it entered defensive 50. Won 2 games after round 9, andaverage losing margin of 8 goals.

James Hird was an average coach. That, combined with all the baggage that comes with it... Why would you do it?
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It’s a bit disingenuous to include the section in 2013 after the players knew they weren’t playing finals TBH.
 
Nuggs Bunny said:
The selling point of giving Rutten the ass was that the group needed an "experienced senior coach" at this point in time, so if that was the aim of Barham's board coup then anything less than Clarkson or Lyon is not nailing the brief. Further, if we've decided to look for a senior coach in September and they absolutely have to be at the club within a 6 week period so they're at the helm in time for drafting then we are not following a good process, no matter how many presentations, references and psych interviews you want to extract from it.

Embarrassing few months to be an Essendon supporter, moreso than usual even
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This sums it up for me. We targeted Clarkson as experienced coach so why not Lyon as next best option. We should have made a presentation to Lyon not the other way around. Then go on to discuss both sides and do our due diligence. Deal with him only. After those discussions if it doesn’t feel right you pull out and ask of other applicants . We really have stuffed this up
 
andleanback said:
I agree with you on some stuff
But you are leaving out critical pieces to your analysis
Like in the 2nd half of 2012 we had a plethora of soft tissue injuries due to the weapons S&c program
And in 2015 we started the season really well and it was only the announcement that wada was appealing and it was likely the players would be suspended that sent the season into a tail spin. Wada doesn’t appeal, it’s likely that hird is still coaching (well he would’ve last a lot longer than 10 weeks)
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Mr Mojo Risin said:
It’s a bit disingenuous to include the section in 2013 after the players knew they weren’t playing finals TBH.
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Look, I'm not saying that circumstances weren't against him. But the bring back Hird fanbois carry on as if he's the messiah when he was a flawed coach who, if his name wasn't James Hird, wouldn't even be entertained without being laughed out the room.
 
eth-dog said:
Look, I'm not saying that circumstances weren't against him. But the bring back Hird fanbois carry on as if he's the messiah when he was a flawed coach who, if his name wasn't James Hird, wouldn't even be entertained without being laughed out the room.
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Yeah he’s definitely no messiah coach, just we never actually knew if he could coach. Does that mean we should get him back, no. In 2013 though was the one time in the last 20 years when the players have turned up and given heart and soul week after week, it was them against the world. we are still a symptom of that as a footy club, these days essendons best performances come after they get jilted into motion. Such an emotional football team.
/ club.
 
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TheGreatBarryB said:
This sums it up for me. We targeted Clarkson as experienced coach so why not Lyon as next best option. We should have made a presentation to Lyon not the other way around. Then go on to discuss both sides and do our due diligence. Deal with him only. After those discussions if it doesn’t feel right you pull out and ask of other applicants . We really have stuffed this up
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I sit somewhere close but not completely adjacent to this.

I think it's possible to hold the view that we swung the axe prematurely on Rutten and handled that whole thing abominably in general but that if Rutten must be jettisoned, we must run a really proper, thorough process to get the next coach.

In the end, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a coach who genuinely wants to coach to go through that, especially as Essendon has very expressly not run a process for the position for 15 years.

And Lyon's actions in leaking and almost mocking the concept of running a process strengthens my impression that he's a right prick and maybe it wasn't such a bad thing he opted out. My sourness at Lyon isn't for declaring he's not interested - he's well within his rights to do that. It's the way he went about it, a way that suggests to me that his opinion of self is a little unhealthily inflated.
 
There are too many variables/nuances to go back and cherry pick stats in an attempt to determine the quality of Hird as a senior coach.

Arguably, Hird's best strengths were cultivating personal relationships, team building, getting the players to buy in etc - generally "culture" - which is something we have struggled with. You won't find that on the stats sheet, much like in you won't find the quality of a businesses employees on a balance sheet.

I'd also argue Hird generally outperformed with the list and resources he had at his disposal - considering it was primarily composed of jobbers and battlers.
 
How anyone can take any of Hird's tenure(s) seriously when he had Bomber in the box, a direct line to the Chairman at all times until he didn't at which point the club was embroiled in the most immense existential crisis possible... is quite beyond me. The whole tenure is a write off of perpetual and varying exceptional circumstances.

It is, in essence, totally meaningless. And a complete anathema at any rate to what we really need the club to be.
 

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Schnitzengruben said:
There are too many variables/nuances to go back and cherry pick stats in an attempt to determine the quality of Hird as a senior coach.

Arguably, Hird's best strengths were cultivating personal relationships, team building, getting the players to buy in etc - generally "culture" - which is something we have struggled with. You won't find that on the stats sheet, much like in you won't find the quality of a businesses employees on a balance sheet.

I'd also argue Hird generally outperformed with the list and resources he had at his disposal - considering it was primarily composed of jobbers and battlers.
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"Cherry picking" stats that go against the narrative that Hird was a good coach.

He might have been good in all those areas but he was clearly lacking in defensive capabilities.

And as far as the list, he had comfortably the best list the club has had for the past 18 years. We had two All Australian key defenders, a dominant big bodied midfielder that had players actually able to block for him as well as a couple of very good wings in Stanton and Zaharakis. Obviously the forward line wasn't strong but c'mon, be serious.

I maintain that if he wasn't James Hird, if you looked at that record nobody would look at him as anything apart from an average coach.
 
I could see Hird being a great developmental coach. I don't disagree with his strengths being ultivating personal relationships, team building, getting the players to buy in etc. I wouldn't hate it if he were brought back in that role. Although on the other hand it would probably mean whoever is coach would have to put up with unlimited media articles speculating when he gets replaced by Hird, so, maybe not.
 
eth-dog said:
"Cherry picking" stats that go against the narrative that Hird was a good coach.

He might have been good in all those areas but he was clearly lacking in defensive capabilities.

And as far as the list, he had comfortably the best list the club has had for the past 18 years. We had two All Australian key defenders, a dominant big bodied midfielder that had players actually able to block for him as well as a couple of very good wings in Stanton and Zaharakis. Obviously the forward line wasn't strong but c'mon, be serious.

I maintain that if he wasn't James Hird, if you looked at that record nobody would look at him as anything apart from an average coach.
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I mentioned resources - how good was Wellman as the defensive coach? How did that group of assistants gel together? How was the club off field? Not just reflecting on defence and attack on field but all facets of the footy club. It goes beyond the stat sheet.

He was excellent in those areas which I argue is what holds back most senior coaches. It was one of the many failures of Truck and Woosha. Is defence not fixable if we (for example) bought in a Chaplin from Melbourne as the defensive coach - would we really suffer the same issues? I'd like to think they could be rectified.

Comfortably had the best list? I disagree with that. He got the most out of that list, for sure. The players ran through walls for him. We had a handful of good players like Hooker, Hurley, Jobe. We had jobbers like Howlett, Hocking, Myers etc and carried spuds like J Merrett, Kommer, Pears, Longergan and a dozen others. Zaka and Stanton....please. I think our 2017 side was easily more talented but wasn't coached anywhere near as well.

As I've said; not fussed if he's head coach or not - I think he should at the very least apply and go through the process like every other candidate - but he's too valuable to not be involved with the club and our squad in some capacity.

If I looked at the stat sheet and literally nothing else; I would come to the same conclusion. But as I said - it's much more nuanced than that. I agree that there is a section of fans that would love Hird back because he's James Hird. Conversely, there is a section of fans that would hate Hird back because he's James Hird. I disregard both sides.
 
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Stranger things have happened that he doesn't get it - but I still think the club has had Hirdy coming back from tbe get go. This sort of move is in our DNA and I've seen nothing from the very start of this 'process' that indicates otherwise.
 
CBombers17 said:
Stranger things have happened that he doesn't get it - but I still think the club has had Hirdy coming back from tbe get go. This sort of move is in our DNA and I've seen nothing from the very start of this 'process' that indicates otherwise.
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yep, from 'reviews' that hold our own interests to these so called external reviews that sound more puff than pastry.We continue to write our own path, most supporters look straight through the bullshit now it seems
 
Albertross said:
Riduculous statement??? This is Essendon we are talking about. Just because they have done more time, doesn't make them more qualified. I have had positions above those "just because they have the papers to say they are qualified" than those that dont. How qualified was our last coach before he was cut loose?

As far as living in the past, he is not only a club legend, but an AFL legend. To think that he would not have any influence over the current players, purely because he retired 15 years ago is naive. His name is synonymous with Essendon.

And yes, he has something to prove, which doesn't only apply to himself, but the 34 other personnel who were wronged by the AFL/ASADA process, as well as the club in general.

I'm more than happy to go through the formal process the club has put in place. But, onwards and upwards to who exactly? Yze? Solomon? McViegh? How many coaches with senior experience have knocked us back? So...why didn't we wait for thr external review to see if Rutten was the man or not? So, due to our inconmpeance, there appears to be slim pickings due to the timings of this b.s.

Should have happened 6 months ago, or 6 months in the future, not now with timelines in place due to drafting etc.

The timing of Sheedy crossing the floor to sack Rutten, Dildoro still seemingly holding a major stake behind the scenes, as well as certain members of coteries holding onto one of the club greats...Do not be surprised if we see JH as our next coach.
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Actually, those others having more experience definitively makes them more qualified. That they've also completed the coaching courses only adds emphasis to that.

I agree that Rutten's sacking was ill-timed and stupid, and I'll add arrogant, but we'd be mistaken to presume the players would just fall into line under Hird. Most of our guys will have been in primary school when the saga rolled out. They're memories will more likely be clouded with public and media opinions, and we all know what that was like. They will not be in auto-vengeance-upyours-AFL mode. More likely they'll be going, "So what happened, exactly?"

They also won't have come from Essendon/Hird worshipping backgrounds predisposed to falling into line because of his red and black aura.

They have to believe what he says, and that's clouded with perceived guilt. How long will it take them to buy in, if they do ag all?
 
Lore said:
Last I checked Barty and Kyrgios haven’t applied for the senior coaching role at Essendon and even if they did — regardless of whether their resumes were from three years ago or today — they wouldn’t be the best candidate in a well run process.

I don’t care if it’s John Farnham, the Queen, Nelson Mandela or Tom Brady.

If you took the name off the top of the resume you wouldn’t add it to the short list for a coaching job. And therein lies the problem.
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Jennifer Lawrence Oops GIF
 
eth-dog said:
Look, I'm not saying that circumstances weren't against him. But the bring back Hird fanbois carry on as if he's the messiah when he was a flawed coach who, if his name wasn't James Hird, wouldn't even be entertained without being laughed out the room.
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There is definitely elements of that, but at times there is the opposite that goes on that ignores the skills and qualities he showed as a coach, attributing every win to Bomber and every bad thing to Hird.

I’ll lay my cards on the table. I think for the vast majority of people that they can get all the experience in the world and never be a great coach. You can’t teach some things. Hird has what you need to be a great coach combined with experience that most legend coaches don’t have due to the unique circumstances.

The reason I want him to get more experience elsewhere is simply to show he’s prepared to put in the work and not be treated like a special case. That he’s willing to do (cough) whatever it takes to build the resume to get a senior position. I don’t think he really lacks in anything I’d worry about tactically, motivationally, relationship wise etc that the experience would help much. But for Essendon, we must stay this new course and start to follow professional methods and mature processes and remain patient.

If Hird wants the job at Essendon, he needs to show he can be the best candidate that will win in a fair fight using those processes.
 
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