Coach Who should be our next coach?

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15/8 Board toppled (reportedly will pursue Clarkson)
19/8 Alastair Clarkson to join North
21/8 Ben Rutten sacked
22/8 Coach selection sub-committee to be established to find a replacement
26/8 Committee members announced: Josh Mahoney (GM-Footy, chair), Dorothy Hisgrove (Board member), Andrew Thorburn, Simone McKinnis, Robert Walls, Jordan Lewis
7/9 James Hird, Dean Solomon, Brendon Lade, Adem Yze interviewed at EY
13/9 Daniel Giansiracusa reportedly interviewed
17/9 Don Pyke “not pursuing that at this stage”
21/9 Brad Scott contacted by the club but won’t make a decision on whether to pursue the role until after the Grand Final
21/9 Adem Yze has second interview and tours the training facilities at Tullamarine
22/9 Blake Caracella will put his hat in the ring
27/9 Brendon Lade appointed as assistant coach at the Western Bulldogs, out of the running for Essendon job
28/9 Brad Scott to be interviewed on Thursday
29/9
 
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Mr Mojo Risin said:
I'm not heavily invested in who is the next coach. The main thing I want is for a real change in the hierarchy of our club and their approach to running it. I desperately want the external review findings to be adhered to (along with many of those in the Ziggy report that haven't been), processes been put in place to allow the place to be run professionally into the future. I want each vacant position to be properly recruited and the candidates that win through correct process be hired, then supported.

If we start to do this then we will give both coaches and players the best chance to succeed in the future and without it we are handicapping our team.
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It will feel quite gutting if they do not respond in a substantial way, tbh.
 
fairbump_playon said:
Not into it one way or another .. just want the best option appointed

But I want to make the point that the process to select the coach is more than just a review of CVs. Candidates need to spell out their vision for the club, their methods and their take on where footy is headed.

We have a panel that is as external and independent as can be expected. Surely people accept that the best candidate wins. Anything else is a conspiracy theory.

I don’t expect Hird will be successful but if he somehow is, it blows my mind that the “20,000 non-nuffy supporters” will burn their memberships in protest.

Newsflash - you aren’t as ITK as you think you are. You’re not in the room hearing the presentations and truly understanding what the candidates can offer.

To win the job Hird would have to overcome his lack of recent experience. That would mean he must have laid out an incredibly compelling vision to a pretty damn skeptical Lewis and Walls.

Can’t see it happening but I do find something about the “burn my membership” brigade really off. I’d understand that reaction if Hird was a direct appointment.. but in the current circumstances just let the process happen FFS.
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With all due respect, I haven’t seen anyone really say they would burn they’re membership. We all bleed Essendon and If he’s appointed through a proper process then I’m sure most people would fall in line. It just baffling by myself and many in here that he would get appointed - through a proper process.
Aswell as a tonne of other reasons mentioned in this group. Can’t see it happening personally.
 
The Prosecutor said:
In fairness, Barrett is as self-loathing North supporter as there is.
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As a general rule, but less so lately.
frodos gardener said:
As a rule I never click a tweet or article related to Barrett. I do not even want them to get the interaction statistic. The guy is as low-value as they come.
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Me either. I'm pretty selective about what I click on.
 

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Stay away from yesterdays AFL daily podcast if you’re not a fan of Barrett.

His reaction to Lyon deciding not to go through the coaching process was a bizarre mix of hyperbolic tripe with the arousal level of 10,000 horny Labradors.
 
Xyle01 said:
Not at all. I believe in Hird because of the person he is. Yes, this was very much reflected in the way he played, but it is more than that.



There is nothing bizarre about it. You cannot comprehend why others think highly of him and simply put it down to how he performed on the field. You are not correct and I believe this is simply because you cannot relate to it. Do not presume to understand why others, myself included, believe he is the right person.
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If you think you believe in Hird because of nothing to do with his playing career, then you're lying to yourself. It's quite simple.

James Hird is who he is because of his on-field performances. Everything about Hird stems from the player Hird was.
 
owen87 said:
If you think you believe in Hird because of nothing to do with his playing career, then you're lying to yourself. It's quite simple.

James Hird is who he is because of his on-field performances. Everything about Hird stems from the player Hird was.
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As I said before, do not presume to understand why I believe in Hird nor why others believe in Hird. Evidently, it is beyond your comprehension.
 
owen87 said:
If you think you believe in Hird because of nothing to do with his playing career, then you're lying to yourself. It's quite simple.

James Hird is who he is because of his on-field performances. Everything about Hird stems from the player Hird was.
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C'mon mate, this is a bit arrogant to tell someone why they think what they think.

Possibly Hird's on-field performances were because of the person he is, because he wasn't the most athletically gifted. Possibly those same attributes translate to being a good coach.

You're right in thinking there is a strong correlation but to tell someone that they're wrong about why they think something is a touch arrogant.
 
Xyle01 said:
As I said before, do not presume to understand why I believe in Hird nor why others believe in Hird. Evidently, it is beyond your comprehension.
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Oh I comprehend just fine. You're scratching around trying to find words that somehow describe you believing in Hird having nothing to do with his playing career. You're failing miserably and throwing out insults instead.
 
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Mr Mojo Risin said:
C'mon mate, this is a bit arrogant to tell someone why they think what they think.

Possibly Hird's on-field performances were because of the person he is, because he wasn't the most athletically gifted. Possibly those same attributes translate to being a good coach.

You're right in thinking there is a strong correlation but to tell someone that they're wrong about why they think something is a touch arrogant.
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No one would care what James Hird had to say if he was the exact same person but not the exact same player. If he had the career of Damien Peveril, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

There's no way to disconnect the two; James Hird has the reputation and aura he does because of his playing career. Anyone pretending they're not backing Hird because of what he did on-field as a player, is kidding themselves. Especially if they aren't a close friend of his.
 
owen87 said:
Oh I comprehend just fine. You're scratching around trying to find words that somehow describe you believing in Hird having nothing to do with his playing career. You're failing miserably and throwing out insults instead.
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On the contrary, you are revealing more about yourself by trying to tell me and others why we believe things or think in such a way. And I haven't thrown out any insults, you simply seem to be unable to comprehend the stance some of us have which differs to yours.
 
owen87 said:
No one would care what James Hird had to say if he was the exact same person but not the exact same player. If he had the career of Damien Peveril, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

There's no way to disconnect the two; James Hird has the reputation and aura he does because of his playing career. Anyone pretending they're not backing Hird because of what he did on-field as a player, is kidding themselves. Especially if they aren't a close friend of his.
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How many people taken late in the draft without an awful lot to suggest they'd become the player they were without any major athletic gifts compared to other players become all-timers without it being something to do with the person they are? He became the player because who he is first. He overcame devastating injury setbacks multiple times with a strong work ethic and bravery. He was a great player because of his quick mind and he saw the game unfold ahead of others in real-time.

You have it backwards when it comes to why some of us think what we do. Many people consider his ability to be a great coach not because he was a great player, but his attributes and work ethic of why he became a great player. In addition several highly credentialed coaches have said he had what it takes to be a great coach after spending time with him in the box for several years.

Regardless of whether this is right or wrong in your eyes, it's not a great approach to tell someone that they're wrong about why they think what they think.
 
Xyle01 said:
On the contrary, you are revealing more about yourself by trying to tell me and others why we believe things or think in such a way. And I haven't thrown out any insults, you simply seem to be unable to comprehend the stance some of us have which differs to yours.
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Unless you know James Hird personally, you're caught up in the same publicity as everyone else. So much as you try to pretend you somehow view him entirely disconnected from his playing career, and any credibility or confidence he has due to that playing career, then you're simply lying to yourself.
 

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Mr Mojo Risin said:
his quick mind and he saw the game unfold ahead of others in real-time.
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So he had gifts others didn't..

Mr Mojo Risin said:
How many people taken late in the draft without an awful lot to suggest they'd become the player they were without any major athletic gifts
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I'd say it's unfair on Hird to say he had no major athletic gifts; he was hardly limited by what he had. Moreso held back by injury early.

Mr Mojo Risin said:
it's not a great approach to tell someone that they're wrong about why they think what they think.
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Sure it is, when they're the one's trying to argue that somehow it couldn't possibly be understood what or how they think, despite being entirely unable to articulate how they view James Hird without any reference whatsoever to his playing career.
 
owen87 said:
There's no way to disconnect the two; James Hird has the reputation and aura he does because of his playing career. Anyone pretending they're not backing Hird because of what he did on-field as a player, is kidding themselves. Especially if they aren't a close friend of his.
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I disagree with that. I can only speak for myself but Hird had many strengths as a head coach which some are desperately trying to ignore. I don't think it's fair to diminish his skillset to simply "was a good player".

Some people just have an aura - with or without a footballing career. In fact I'd argue the playing career is largely irrelevant. I've never heard anyone say Johnathon Brown, Dane Swan or Matty Scarlett have an aura. Sometimes it's just in your DNA. I have no doubts that if Hird perused another field like business he'd have just as much of an aura as he does because of football.
 
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Schnitzengruben said:
I disagree with that. I can only speak for myself but Hird had many strengths as a head coach which some are desperately trying to ignore. I don't think it's fair to diminish his skillset to simply "was a good player".

Some people just have an aura - with or without a footballing career. In fact I'd argue the aura is largely irrelevant. I've never heard anyone say Johnathon Brown, Dane Swan or Matty Scarlett have an aura. Sometimes it's just in your DNA. I have no doubts that if Hird perused another field like business he'd have just as much of an aura as he does because of football.
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Would he though?

The aura comes due to his success on-field, if he'd been a bust as a player, he wouldn't have the same aura in the football arena that he does. It's impossible to disconnect the two.

If he was a bust in business, he'd never have developed that kind of aura. At a point you get found out. Like used car salesmen or conmen. You either come through, or you don't. James Hird the player came through - every time - so the aura grew and grew.
 
owen87 said:
So he had gifts others didn't..
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That translate to coaching beyond "being a great player".

owen87 said:
I'd say it's unfair on Hird to say he had no major athletic gifts; he was hardly limited by what he had. Moreso held back by injury early.
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Hird, Sheedy and others all agree he was a bit fat, slow and lazy when he was drafted. He became fitter through hard work and possibly is lucky he didn't have to play today because his tank wasn't anything to write home about and his defense was next to non-existent. Being at the games in 92, 93, 94 etc I can attest to his evolution not being through amazing physical gifts.


owen87 said:
Sure it is, when they're the one's trying to argue that somehow it couldn't possibly be understood what or how they think, despite being entirely unable to articulate how they view James Hird without any reference whatsoever to his playing career.
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You do you then.
 
Mr Mojo Risin said:
That translate to coaching beyond "being a great player".
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They might. Plenty of high IQ players haven't made great coaches. Plenty of great players and leaders haven't made great coaches. Hird's coaching record isn't one of a great coach. He was an OK-to-good coach. Maybe he'd have gotten better without the saga period. Maybe he wouldn't.

Mr Mojo Risin said:
Hird, Sheedy and others all agree he was a bit fat, slow and lazy when he was drafted. He became fitter through hard work and possibly is lucky he didn't have to play today because his tank wasn't anything to write home about and his defense was next to non-existent. Being at the games in 92, 93, 94 etc I can attest to his evolution not being through amazing physical gifts.
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I don't believe I've ever argued he didn't work hard. Just that he wasn't exactly held back by what he had. If he's been 5'9" he probably wouldn't have made it no matter how hard he worked.
 
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It’s very hard to judge Hird as a coach with what happened, 2012 was destroyed with injuries in the end and then we all know what happens after that, making the rest irrelevant really.
 
owen87 said:
Would he though?

The aura comes due to his success on-field, if he'd been a bust as a player, he wouldn't have the same aura in the football arena that he does. It's impossible to disconnect the two.

If he was a bust in business, he'd never have developed that kind of aura. At a point you get found out. Like used car salesmen or conmen. You either come through, or you don't. James Hird the player came through - every time - so the aura grew and grew.
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Just my opinion of course but I think he would. We could go back and forth on it but it's a bit hard when something like "aura" has no real definition and is purely subjective.

I have no doubts there are some people who, as you describe, think Hird is the man because of his playing career etc. But I think it's unfair to paint everyone with the same brush. I personally couldn't care less about Hird the player much like I don't about Rutten the player. It doesn't even cross my mind.

As I said, I'm in favour of Hird because I know he has a unique skillset in regards to personal relationships and culture which is one of the biggest hurdles to being a successful senior coach. I think if we got the right team of assistants around him (and fix the damn list) then it could actually work.
 
Schnitzengruben said:
As I said, I'm in favour of Hird because I know he has a unique skillset in regards to personal relationships and culture which is one of the biggest hurdles to being a successful senior coach. I think if we got the right team of assistants around him (and fix the damn list) then it could actually work.
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Had 2012 not happened, I would agree that his relationship management paired with strong tactical nous at the assistant level could be a strong combination. 2012 and the baggage it brings, isn't worth it though IMO. Were he not 'James Hird, Essendon Champion' this wouldn't even be a discussion though either IMO.
 
Schnitzengruben said:
I disagree with that. I can only speak for myself but Hird had many strengths as a head coach which some are desperately trying to ignore. I don't think it's fair to diminish his skillset to simply "was a good player".

Some people just have an aura - with or without a footballing career. In fact I'd argue the aura is largely irrelevant. I've never heard anyone say Johnathon Brown, Dane Swan or Matty Scarlett have an aura. Sometimes it's just in your DNA. I have no doubts that if Hird perused another field like business he'd have just as much of an aura as he does because of football.
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To say my ex-girlfriend knew James would be wrong, but was in the same educational place as James prior to him becoming a star. She recalled to me many years ago that everyone seemed to listen to him and be drawn to him (not in a sexual way). She found him a bit cold at the time and later reflected that it was more that he seemed shy. But this was prior to him being known as an AFL star.

He has been successful in several different pursuits.

Anyway, I'm completely sick of this topic and generally make it a rule of mine not to get drawn into internet debates because I learnt years ago that it's near impossible to change the mind of others and it's a waste of time, especially when it doesn't really matter if you do change their mind.
 
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owen87 said:
Had 2012 not happened, I would agree that his relationship management paired with strong tactical nous at the assistant level could be a strong combination. 2012 and the baggage it brings, isn't worth it though IMO.
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It probably isn't - but have you ever heard the expression "that's so crazy it might just work"? 😅
 
Schnitzengruben said:
It probably isn't - but have you ever heard the expression "that's so crazy it might just work"? 😅
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Sure, but i have also heard the phrase 'stupid is as stupid does'

which is what would aptly define us if our 'process' somehow spits out Hird as the most credentialled candidate over guys with more experience than 6 months of FIFO assistant coaching on the weekend since 2015.

Love Hirdy, but he isn't the answer.
 
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