Coach Who should be our next coach?

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15/8 Board toppled (reportedly will pursue Clarkson)
19/8 Alastair Clarkson to join North
21/8 Ben Rutten sacked
22/8 Coach selection sub-committee to be established to find a replacement
26/8 Committee members announced: Josh Mahoney (GM-Footy, chair), Dorothy Hisgrove (Board member), Andrew Thorburn, Simone McKinnis, Robert Walls, Jordan Lewis
7/9 James Hird, Dean Solomon, Brendon Lade, Adem Yze interviewed at EY
13/9 Daniel Giansiracusa reportedly interviewed
17/9 Don Pyke “not pursuing that at this stage”
21/9 Brad Scott contacted by the club but won’t make a decision on whether to pursue the role until after the Grand Final
21/9 Adem Yze has second interview and tours the training facilities at Tullamarine
22/9 Blake Caracella will put his hat in the ring
27/9 Brendon Lade appointed as assistant coach at the Western Bulldogs, out of the running for Essendon job
28/9 Brad Scott to be interviewed on Thursday
29/9
 
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owen87 said:
But that's the thing, being James Hird is what gives him gravitas. It's his achievements as a player, not as a coach that make people want him.

They see James Hird, the player, the leader, the Essendon great.

If you isolated his coaching career you'd see a guy who achieved OK but not great results, produced a team that was defensively poor that couldn't match it with the top teams of the time, and that never played a system-based style of game which is what the modern game demands.

So everyone arguing pro James Hird is doing it because he's James Hird, Essendon Champion and past-player.

If he was Scott West, or Shane Crawford, or Chris Judd, people would say his coaching record and experience doesn't stack up against other options out there.

All of this without even getting in to the baggage he'd bring.
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It's where we differ. I'd say the results in 2013 were remarkable (prior to players being told they wouldn't be playing finals) given the circumstances. We've had several better credentialed coaches before and after who couldn't get half the system we had in 2013 out of our players.
 
Xyle01 said:
You seem to contradict yourself. I agree his achievements on field were the starting point, but what cemented his stature was how he conducted himself off field.
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But everything stems from him being a Champion Player of the Essendon Football Club.

What has he actually done off-field to justify his stature other than be an all-time great Essendon player?

There's no contradiction whatsoever, why is James Hird of a higher stature than Andrew Welsh?

Andrew Welsh speaks well, he's been very successful off-field - moreso than Hird - and appears to be quite intelligent. Nothing James Hird has done beyond his career as a player suggests he should be regarded as more successful or of a higher stature than Andrew Welsh.

If Andrew Welsh had the same coaching resume as Hird, no one would want him. People want him because he's James Hird, Essendon Champion.
 
owen87 said:
But everything stems from him being a Champion Player of the Essendon Football Club.

What has he actually done off-field to justify his stature other than be an all-time great Essendon player?

There's no contradiction whatsoever, why is James Hird of a higher stature than Andrew Welsh?

Andrew Welsh speaks well, he's been very successful off-field - moreso than Hird - and appears to be quite intelligent. Nothing James Hird has done beyond his career as a player suggests he should be regarded as more successful or of a higher stature than Andrew Welsh.

If Andrew Welsh had the same coaching resume as Hird, no one would want him. People want him because he's James Hird, Essendon Champion.
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Well for one thing it could be that Andrew Welsh does not seem to display much charisma, but I don't know because I have not heard him speak since he was a player and know nothing of his achievements. And therein lies simply why he is not held in the same regard. But I didn't think glowingly of him his playing days when I did hear him speak.

If he was Scott West, or Shane Crawford, or Chris Judd, people would say his coaching record and experience doesn't stack up against other options out there.
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And this is where you do contradict yourself, because you say he is only who he is because of his on-field achievements. Yet you mention the above with Chris Judd. Chris Judd is arguably a better player with greater achievements, yet by your own admission is not held in the same regard. Why is that? Could it be because there are more pieces to the puzzle than just on-field performance?

What has he actually done off-field to justify his stature other than be an all-time great Essendon player?
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Perhaps it is just something about him that you cannot relate to or do not understand, and I respect that.
 

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Mr Mojo Risin said:
It's where we differ. I'd say the results in 2013 were remarkable (prior to players being told they wouldn't be playing finals) given the circumstances. We've had several better credentialed coaches before and after who couldn't get half the system we had in 2013 out of our players.
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2013 results for the first half of the year were good, yes.

We also got belted by Geelong & Sydney before the players were told they weren't playing finals, and I have a recollection that Hawthorn belting us might have also occurred before that - my memory has it as before a Sunday Collingwood game.

To Round 18 we'd played 10 games against teams outside the 8, 6 games against teams inside the 8. We lost comprehensively to Hawthorn, Sydney and Geelong with a narrow win against Fremantle at home.
 
owen87 said:
2013 results for the first half of the year were good, yes.

We also got belted by Geelong & Sydney before the players were told they weren't playing finals, and I have a recollection that Hawthorn belting us might have also occurred before that - my memory has it as before a Sunday Collingwood game.

To Round 18 we'd played 10 games against teams outside the 8, 6 games against teams inside the 8. We lost comprehensively to Hawthorn, Sydney and Geelong with a narrow win against Fremantle at home.
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We were told just prior to the Hawthorn game where the winner would take top spot on the ladder.

But like I said, we differ with Hird's coaching ability which is fine. We can remain in agreement that he wouldn't win a proper process right now and that whoever coaches next should be winner of the proper process.
 
Xyle01 said:
I didn't think glowingly of him his playing days when I did hear him speak.
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Which is exactly the point.

Xyle01 said:
And this is where you do contradict yourself, because you say he is only who he is because of his on-field achievements. Yet you mention the above with Chris Judd. Chris Judd is arguably a better player with greater achievements, yet by your own admission is not held in the same regard. Why is that? Could it be because there are more pieces to the puzzle than just on-field performance?
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None of the above are champion past Essendon players, which is the point.

Xyle01 said:
Perhaps it is just something about him that you cannot relate to or do not understand, and I respect that.
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Truly bizarre line of argument this one.

You believe in Hird because of the reputation he built as a player.
 
Foxx said:
Has Justin Leppitsch been asked to apply?

His CV is as impressive as anyone else left.
Premiership assistant at Richmond
Currently an assistant at the Pies.
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Had huge relationships problems as coach. Same problems noble ran into, did not handle the hot seat at all. Pressure can total change some people’s personality. Some people are just more suited to being an assistant.
 
Doss said:
I gave myself a little nick once to check if it was Essendon that I bled.

Was in fact only plain blood. I was disappoint.
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If you want to really simulate the Essendon experience, you’ll need more than a little nick.

Try a gaping, festering wound and then surround yourself with aging white male surgeons arguing about the best way to treat it.. while not actually treating it.

That’s the way to tell if you truly bleed Essendon.
 
Mr Mojo Risin said:
We were told just prior to the Hawthorn game where the winner would take top spot on the ladder.

But like I said, we differ with Hird's coaching ability which is fine. We can remain in agreement that he wouldn't win a proper process right now and that whoever coaches next should be winner of the proper process.
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My numbers excluded the Hawks game to clarify, our numbers from thereon were abysmal aside from a brief Carlton win.
 
owen87 said:
My numbers excluded the Hawks game to clarify, our numbers from thereon were abysmal aside from a brief Carlton win.
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It's more nuanced than numbers and my memory is clear being at the games and watching our improvement from 2011 onward.

We've had a problem with defense and the players and conditioning to implement it since the early 2000s. A coaches to job is to try and implement a system that best fits the players they have and improvement can be iterative. Bomber got a bit more defense going in 2014 but that was built on the work done in 2013.

At what point after early 2000s have we been playing for top spot late into the season other than that year, despite the unprecedented circumstances and pressure? Bomber speaks highly of Hird as a coach in terms of tactician, motivational and relationship skills among other things. Goodwin and McCartney spoke highly of Hird. Goddard who played under Lyon thought Hird was an excellent coach. Do you think they are just being nice or that they wouldn't be able to judge a good coach?

GWS players cannot speak highly enough of him. Do you think they all do so just because of his name and playing achievements? They owe him nothing and many would be too young to remember much about him as a player.

In any case I've spent far more time on this than I care to, I'm not fussed if you disagree.
 
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andleanback said:
Damian barrett is a deadset bell end when it comes to essendon. What ever they choose to do, he will criticize it no matter what
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I reckon he's one of the ones RoCo was thinking of in his article the other week about stale narratives and lazy media
 

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Not into it one way or another .. just want the best option appointed

But I want to make the point that the process to select the coach is more than just a review of CVs. Candidates need to spell out their vision for the club, their methods and their take on where footy is headed.

We have a panel that is as external and independent as can be expected. Surely people accept that the best candidate wins. Anything else is a conspiracy theory.

I don’t expect Hird will be successful but if he somehow is, it blows my mind that the “20,000 non-nuffy supporters” will burn their memberships in protest.

Newsflash - you aren’t as ITK as you think you are. You’re not in the room hearing the presentations and truly understanding what the candidates can offer.

To win the job Hird would have to overcome his lack of recent experience. That would mean he must have laid out an incredibly compelling vision to a pretty damn skeptical Lewis and Walls.

Can’t see it happening but I do find something about the “burn my membership” brigade really off. I’d understand that reaction if Hird was a direct appointment.. but in the current circumstances just let the process happen FFS.
 
Lore said:
I reckon he's one of the ones RoCo was thinking of in his article the other week about stale narratives and lazy media
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The way he and Sam McClure word things when it comes to essendon is just lazy journalism and taking pot shots. The other night McClure was insinuating that Campbell couldn’t run away from the joint quick enough, um no that’s not the case at all, he jumped before he was pushed to save his reputation.
 
owen87 said:
You believe in Hird because of the reputation he built as a player.
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Not at all. I believe in Hird because of the person he is. Yes, this was very much reflected in the way he played, but it is more than that.

Truly bizarre line of argument this one.
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There is nothing bizarre about it. You cannot comprehend why others think highly of him and simply put it down to how he performed on the field. You are not correct and I believe this is simply because you cannot relate to it. Do not presume to understand why others, myself included, believe he is the right person.
 
andleanback said:
The way he and Sam McClure word things when it comes to essendon is just lazy journalism and taking pot shots. The other night McClure was insinuating that Campbell couldn’t run away from the joint quick enough, um no that’s not the chase at all, he jumped before he was pushed to save his reputation.
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Yeah. I haven't listened to either of them tbh. McClure I got a few minutes of the other night because there was something Caro said about the process that I wanted to hear and he was hosting Classified that night. I do think the kid has some connections and I don't think he's as bad as he used to be a couple of years ago, but still has the reputation he earned.

Barrett is an absolute piece of work though. He always spins things as sensationally and negatively as possible. And right now, the club isn't telling anyone much of anything, so there's plenty of room for him to fill the gaps with tired out old tropes. Like every time there's a new episode of the AFL Daily podcast (which I don't listen to but it's always advertised on the home page of the AFL website) the headline (especially lately while this has been going on) is always fairly obviously anti-Essendon and often not particularly likely to be accurate when compared to what we know to be true here.

But then Barrett is a North supporter and his club just got Clarkson and has a massive chip on its shoulder where Essendon is concerned, so that's not greatly surprising I guess. They're all reeling with their good fortune and buying into the messiah vortex that we've been sucked into for years thinking everything is coming up roses, and then sticking the boot into Essendon because "rivalry".
 
fairbump_playon said:
Not into it one way or another .. just want the best option appointed

But I want to make the point that the process to select the coach is more than just a review of CVs. Candidates need to spell out their vision for the club, their methods and their take on where footy is headed.

We have a panel that is as external and independent as can be expected. Surely people accept that the best candidate wins. Anything else is a conspiracy theory.

I don’t expect Hird will be successful but if he somehow is, it blows my mind that the “20,000 non-nuffy supporters” will burn their memberships in protest.

Newsflash - you aren’t as ITK as you think you are. You’re not in the room hearing the presentations and truly understanding what the candidates can offer.

To win the job Hird would have to overcome his lack of recent experience. That would mean he must have laid out an incredibly compelling vision to a pretty damn skeptical Lewis and Walls.

Can’t see it happening but I do find something about the “burn my membership” brigade really off. I’d understand that reaction if Hird was a direct appointment.. but in the current circumstances just let the process happen FFS.
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I'm not heavily invested in who is the next coach. The main thing I want is for a real change in the hierarchy of our club and their approach to running it. I desperately want the external review findings to be adhered to (along with many of those in the Ziggy report that haven't been), processes been put in place to allow the place to be run professionally into the future. I want each vacant position to be properly recruited and the candidates that win through correct process be hired, then supported.

If we start to do this then we will give both coaches and players the best chance to succeed in the future and without it we are handicapping our team.
 
owen87 said:
My numbers excluded the Hawks game to clarify, our numbers from thereon were abysmal aside from a brief Carlton win.
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The back end of 2013, like 2012 and 2011 before it, we were exposed as having a lack of depth when missing key players. For example, against Hawthorn we did not have Jobe, Crameri or Fletcher.
 
Lore said:
But then Barrett is a North supporter and his club just got Clarkson and has a massive chip on its shoulder where Essendon is concerned, so that's not greatly surprising I guess. They're all reeling with their good fortune and buying into the messiah vortex that we've been sucked into for years thinking everything is coming up roses, and then sticking the boot into Essendon because "rivalry".
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In fairness, Barrett is as self-loathing North supporter as there is.
 
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