Banter Who will be better in 2024? Carlton or Collingwood? Part 2

[HeathySure]

2021 Carlton: 8W 14L (13th)
===== Voss hired =======
2022 Carlton: 12W 10L (9th - missed the 8 by 0.6%)
2023 Carlton: 13W 9L (5th - made it to a PF)
2024 Carlton: 11W 6L (2nd end of Round 18)

What year were you expecting Carlton to do better since Voss took over?

Pies went 17th 4th 1st with a crappier list. Voss is holding you way back

 

[Fadge]

Thought it would - that and 1910 ofc

And pretty much the entirety of the last quarter of a century.

 

[carlton_99]

Pies went 17th 4th 1st with a crappier list. Voss is holding you way back

I knew you were going to mention this. Before finishing 17th in 2021 the Pies were consistently in finals and contending at the very end of the year. The core of that list including experienced players that had achieved some sort of success remained with McRae. You do not have any success in 2022 or 2023 if it wasn't for that core remaining.

Contrastingly, Voss took over a team that had been bottom 6 pretty much every year for 9 years. They hadn't made finals once in that time and had just come off their 119th coaching change in that period. They had no players that had achieved any sort of success and had no real experience to guide them. Our oldest player other than Ed Curnow was probably Sam Docherty/Nic Newman who were 28-29.

Not at all comparable.

 

[Arr0w]

Who will be better in 2024? Carlton or Collingwood?

So far, the answer is clearly Carlton

Juicy

 

[Fadge]

...had just come off their 119th coaching change in that period.

I count 120. I think you forgot about Malthouse?

 

[Fadge]

I knew you were going to mention this. Before finishing 17th in 2021 the Pies were consistently in finals and contending at the very end of the year. The core of that list including experienced players that had achieved some sort of success remained with McRae. You do not have any success in 2022 or 2023 if it wasn't for that core remaining.

Amazing how it's a very different story now in hindsight compared to the commentary at the time...

 

[carlton_99]

Amazing how it's a very different story now in hindsight compared to the commentary at the time...

What did I say at the time that contradicts the above?

 

[carlton_99]

I count 120. I think you forgot about Malthouse?

For good reason

 

[Fadge]

What did I say at the time that contradicts the above?

I'm talking about the general commentary. I don't care enough about what specific Carlton posters say to bookmark it (unlike Carlton posters and my posts).

 

[carlton_99]

I'm talking about the general commentary. I don't care enough about what specific Carlton posters say to bookmark it (unlike Carlton posters and my posts).

The "general commentary" doesn't really have anything to do with my post

 

[Fadge]

The "general commentary" doesn't really have anything to do with my post

It has absolutely everything to do with it.

If the general commentary was that:

• our list was FUBARed - we were paying players to play for other clubs;
• our list was too old - the likes of Pendlebury, Sidebottom and Howe were no longer the players they had been;
• our club culture was FUBARed - player contracts weren't worth the paper they were written on.

It means that your hindsight opinion was in the minority (even if it was your opinion at the time).

 

[carlton_99]

It has absolutely everything to do with it.

If the general commentary was that:

• our list was FUBARed - we were paying players to play for other clubs;
• our list was too old - the likes of Pendlebury, Sidebottom and Howe were no longer the players they had been;
• our club culture was FUBARed - player contracts weren't worth the paper they were written on.

It means that your hindsight opinion was in the minority (even if it was your opinion at the time).

This has nothing to do with my post. The poster I was replying to was saying that because Voss hasn't gone from 17th to a GF in two years like McRae he has underachieved. I'll ask you - do you think Voss has underachieved going from 9th to 5th (PF) and now 2nd at the end of Round 18.

 

[Arr0w]

It has absolutely everything to do with it.

If the general commentary was that:

• our list was FUBARed - we were paying players to play for other clubs;
• our list was too old - the likes of Pendlebury, Sidebottom and Howe were no longer the players they had been;
• our club culture was FUBARed - player contracts weren't worth the paper they were written on.

It means that your hindsight opinion was in the minority (even if it was your opinion at the time).

Maybe you can set up another thread called, "stuff people don't give a stuff about"

You can add that and all your failed analysis, predictions and maths

Should take up 10 pages alone

 

[Fadge]

Maybe you can set up another thread called, "stuff people don't give a stuff about"

You can add that and all your failed analysis, predictions and maths

Should take up 10 pages alone

And you complain about people playing the poster?

Hypocrite.

 

[Arr0w]

And you complain about people playing the poster?

Hypocrite.

I just responded to a post that did the same

Try this

Who will be better in 2024? Carlton or Collingwood?

 

[Fadge]

This has nothing to do with my post. The poster I was replying to was saying that because Voss hasn't gone from 17th to a GF in two years like McRae he has underachieved. I'll ask you - do you think Voss has underachieved going from 9th to 5th (PF) and now 2nd at the end of Round 18.

Given we're all regularly told that Carlton's top 5 are by far the best top 5 in the league, and that their depth is second to none - you could probably say he's underachieved in not winning the last two flags, and odds on favourites for this year's flag...

Do you remember the pile on I received for daring to suggest Harry McKay hadn't performed in the top 100 players in the competition over 2022/23? When he was 7th in Carlton's B&F in their 9th placed team in 2022, and outside the top 10 in Carlton's B&F in their 5th placed team in 2023?

 

[vindaloo]

2021 Carlton: 8W 14L (13th)
===== Voss hired =======
2022 Carlton: 12W 10L (9th - missed the 8 by 0.6%)
2023 Carlton: 13W 9L (5th - made it to a PF)
2024 Carlton: 11W 6L (2nd end of Round 18)

What year were you expecting Carlton to do better since Voss took over?

In fairness, with the list you have - you should have done better over 2022 and 2023, hence mid last year Voss was under immense pressure. That pressure will magnify if you don't go all the way this year. You have the best spine in the league by a long way with TDK, Cripps and Walsh in the middle. You're right in the prime but the clock is ticking and Voss will be under the pump if you don't win it.

 

[Fadge]

I just responded to a post that did the same

Try this

Who will be better in 2024? Carlton or Collingwood?

The post of mine you responded to was 'playing the man'.

In what way?

 

[carlton_99]

Given we're all regularly told that Carlton's top 5 are by far the best top 5 in the league, and that their depth is second to none - you could probably say he's underachieved in not winning the last two flags, and odds on favourites for this year's flag...

Do you remember the pile on I received for daring to suggest Harry McKay hadn't performed in the top 100 players in the competition over 2022/23? When he was 7th in Carlton's B&F in their 9th placed team in 2022, and outside the top 10 in Carlton's B&F in their 5th placed team in 2023?

I am asking for your opinion on the matter and you're just repeating stuff other people have said.

Once again do you think Carlton have underachieved since Voss took over - in other words have their results been under your expectations for the team since the start of 2022.

 

[Arr0w]

The post of mine you responded to was 'playing the man'.

In what way?

You of all people highlighting other people's failed predictions

Who will be better in 2024? Carlton or Collingwood?

 

[carlton_99]

In fairness, with the list you have - you should have done better over 2022 and 2023, hence mid last year Voss was under immense pressure. That pressure will magnify if you don't go all the way this year. You have the best spine in the league by a long way with TDK, Cripps and Walsh in the middle. You're right in the prime but the clock is ticking and Voss will be under the pump if you don't win it.

In 2023 we made a PF - did you think we were going be a GF team at the start of that year?

 

[JustaBattler]

Given we are regularly told that Collingwood is the greatest team of all time nd that they even have the greatest player of all time in the kidGOAT mcCrae must be a shit coach who fluked a flag - also given the FACT that Collingwodo arent even in the top8 in 2024 ...and looking like they will do a Geepong and miss finals..

gee whiz
wowee

Voss has got you mungers covered every which way

 

[Fadge]

I am asking for your opinion on the matter and you're just repeating stuff other people have said.

Once again do you think Carlton have underachieved since Voss took over - in other words have their results been under your expectations for the team since the start of 2022.

I've said they wouldn't contend for the flag with their list, and they haven't contended for the flag with their list.

If they contend for the flag this year, Voss has achieved above my expectations this year.

 

[Arr0w]

I've said they wouldn't contend for the flag with their list, and they haven't contended for the flag with their list.

If they contend for the flag this year, Voss has achieved above my expectations this year.

So still 16th then?

 

[Fadge]

You of all people highlighting other people's failed predictions

Who will be better in 2024? Carlton or Collingwood?

No, come on - you said my post was playing the man after I called you out as a hypocrite.

In what way was it playing the man?