Who will be better in 2024? Hawthorn or Essendon?

[Yoda_]

injury trolling, huh? Classy.

How about you explain to everyone when Essendon's three big guns, 2-metre Peter, Sam Draper and battling Ben McKay will be carrying them to the Promised Land ?

at time of posting was not a troll at all so back up there will you champion

 

[peetoo]

Bad idea being rostered to play Essendon round one every year. Wait till they run out of tickets.

 

[Yoda_]

Bad idea being rostered to play Essendon round one every year. Wait till they run out of tickets.

kinda like Fremantle being forced to play Hawthorn in Tassie every year

 

[HairyO]

Only 1/2 game separates the 2 teams now. 5 rounds to go.

 

[Vindicater]

Only 1/2 game separates the 2 teams now. 5 rounds to go.

Hawks will go past us next week. Did not see it coming but they are absolutely humming along.

 

[Jim Prideaux]

Hawks will go past us next week. Did not see it coming but they are absolutely humming along.

We’ll see, you guys are having a slump but you’re in a position where you can to an extent. We need to keep winning and winning well. Very happy with our progress, finals? Maybe

 

[HairyO]

Hawks will go past us next week. Did not see it coming but they are absolutely humming along.

Crows were huge last night. Their home game too.

Massive game for us if we want to play finals.

 

[Rod Stroker]

Bookies have the teams below them, including the Hawks in 11th, as a better chance to win the flag. LOL!

 

[windyhill]

Bookies have the teams below them, including the Hawks in 11th, as a better chance to win the flag. LOL!

View attachment 2053983

No sign of n.melb “lol”

 

[theiaofseed]

Thread title: Who will be better in 2024? Hawthorn or Essendon?

Hawthorn fans: "Deflect! Deflect! Deflect!"

So who will be better in 2024, Hawthorn or Essendon?

 

[hoddo22]

If it's April, Essendon.
If it's August, Hawthorn.
If it's September, N/A.

This is fantastic. A month early but that's OK. Can't rule the Hawks out of September action either.

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[Philhawk]

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Spare a thought for the Essendon posters still trying to convince themselves that not giving D’Ambrossio any love was a good move.

 

[Inspecta Gadget]

So who will be better in 2024, Hawthorn or Essendon?

Thank you for your question.

I choose to deflect.

 

[Yoda_]

Spare a thought for the Essendon posters still trying to convince themselves that not giving D’Ambrossio any love was a good move.

When his deficiency was an area that was of most concern, you can’t please everyone.

He looks to have taken the move well and put his head in places not previously acquainted with. Kudos to Sitch for getting this into Massimo’s game


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[Strapping Young Lad]

When his deficiency was an area that was of most concern, you can’t please everyone.

He looks to have taken the move well and put his head in places not previously acquainted with. Kudos to Sitch for getting this into Massimo’s game


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Sounds a lot like Essendon couldn’t identify his strength, and you’ve instead tried to invent a flaw.

 

[Vindicater]

Sounds a lot like Essendon couldn’t identify his strength, and you’ve instead tried to invent a flaw.

I said in another thread that he would have struggled to get a game for us due to the structure Brad wants his wings to play so I am glad he went to somewhere that had the right role for him.

The big annoyance for me is that we did not want him at half back because of his defensive issues despite his clear kicking strength and that is fine (I accept it but don't like it) but we then moved Martin back who is also poor defensively and is much better kicking into fifty rather than out of it.

We sold an asset to move another asset into a negative. Pure Essington.

 

[Yoda_]

Sounds a lot like Essendon couldn’t identify his strength, and you’ve instead tried to invent a flaw.

It’s the Essendon way

Martin is a fwd half weapon. Send him to half back

Perkins is a marking fwd, play him as a defensive midfielder

Ridley is an interceptor but Scott plays him as key back





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[Dan26]

One of the things that Hawthorn have done well, especially during their premiership era is focus on specific needs and recruiting players and developing them to fill a role. One of the phrases they used was, "Master your craft" and I love that idea, because it doesn't imply being the best at everything. It means taking the thing that is your specialty, and mastering it, and being the best in the AFL at that thing. "Master your craft." It's a thing of beauty.

Now take Essendon. With the Bombers, you often hear things like, "we want to improve across the board"...."we just want to be more professional at all aspects of the game" Sounds good right? It's not really. Whilst there is nothing wrong inherently with trying to improve everything, you end up being jack of all trades, and master of none. All the major statistical indicators of success, the Bombers end up ranking 7-12, which is where we always finish.

Let's look at a specific example. There is a stat from Champion data measuring "post clearance." In this particular stat, the number one team of all time as Essendon of 2000 - Perhaps not surprising. Other exceptional teams from the last 25 years occupy other spots in the top-10 like Collingwood of 2011, Geelong 2008 etc etc. You know who ranks second of all time in that stat? Hawthorn of THIS year. Post Clearance Hawthorn of 2024 are the best team in the history of the game with the exception of Essendon 2000 at that stat

And this shows you how the Hawks approach the game. Instead of trying to improve across the board and be okay at everything but exceptional at nothing, they have decided to put MORE focus on specific stats that are relevant to premiership success. Master your craft. Their philosophy seems to be that if we can't be the best at everything at least be exceptional at something. At least that gives you an identity - it gives you a particular strength. It doesn't matter if they rank lower in other statistical categories because once they have mastered the ones that are important and become exceptional at those, they can then work at the other stuff.

It's one of the reasons they recruited Massimo D'Ambrosio. He's not that great a player but one thing he can do is kick. So they play to his strengths. One of the key indicators of premiership success is scores from defensive 50. All premiership teams in the last 10 years rank first or second in that stat. So, they recruit players who can transition the ball from back to forward who can kick. Who do Essendon play across half back? Andrew McGrath

1

Andrew Mcgrath

Age

26

Ht

180cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

22.7

5star

K

11.6

4star

HB

11.1

5star

M

1.6

2star

T

6.4

5star

MG

252.9

4star

D

22.7

5star

K

11.6

4star

HB

11.1

5star

M

1.6

2star

T

6.4

5star

MG

252.9

4star

D

22.0

5star

K

11.0

4star

HB

11.0

5star

M

1.2

2star

T

6.4

5star

MG

219.0

4star

, who is a better player than Massimo D'Ambrosio, but McGrath tends to spray the ball when kicking from half back. Nick Martin, also a much better player than Massimo, but across half back he tends to turn the ball over. Essendon is so focused on trying to improve across the board that they don't excel at specific needs. Hawthorn focus on specific needs and master those things. Martin for example ALWAYS kicks goals when he is moved forward. So play him there. Maybe Zac Merrett who is the best kick in the team could be used across half back? Sounds like a wild suggestion, but play to his strengths. Hawthorn play to their strengths and are always exceptional at "some" part of the game.

Meanwhile we will attempt to "improve across the board" and fail every step of the way.

 

[MtGHawk]

Crows were huge last night. Their home game too.

Massive game for us if we want to play finals.

Danger game. Crows are playing well.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

It’s the Essendon way

Martin is a fwd half weapon. Send him to half back

Perkins is a marking fwd, play him as a defensive midfielder

Ridley is an interceptor but Scott plays him as key back





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Scrimshaw is too, but he has matured into a legitimate defend-first tall this season, and the backline as a whole has really improved as a result.

Ridley is clearly a gun and is talented enough to make that kind if transition as well. It will improve his whole game in the future.

 

[JayJ20]

Hawthorn are the better team this year. No doubt about it. Goes to show how much impact a winning culture has.

Hawthorn don’t make excuses even with a young list and aim high. They beat the top teams when people don’t give them a chance and smash the teams they are expected to beat. That’s a team and culture with high standards. They maximise the talent they have on the list.

Essendon pat themselves on the back for scraping wins against bottom 4 teams and make every excuse they can think of on why they didn’t and cannot beat top 8 teams. A loser culture that no amount of draft picks can save because the loser mentality will pass onto the next generation.

While Hawthorn will aim for a premiership soon, we will aim for the lofty heights of a finals appearance that’s over at quarter time.

 

[The Devils Advocate]

Spare a thought for the Essendon posters still trying to convince themselves that not giving D’Ambrossio any love was a good move.

I was very vocal about wanting to keep him over Heppell. I also wanted Ginnivan.
Your lot are fun to watch, honestly remind me of the Baby Bombers.

 

[The Devils Advocate]

This is fantastic. A month early but that's OK. Can't rule the Hawks out of September action either.

Well, Essendon are still currently ahead, they won't be in August though

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I was very vocal about wanting to keep him over Heppell. I also wanted Ginnivan.
Your lot are fun to watch, honestly remind me of the Baby Bombers.

During the summer Mass was on SEN and he said something to the effect of “I’ve had a good chat with Sam about where he sees my best footy and I feel like I can have the impact of Gulden or Josh Daicos in the right role”.

Seemed quite silly at the time, particularly as he was such an afterthought during trade week, but he was pretty much bang on.