Banter Who will be Better in 2025, Collingwood or Carlton? Part 4

[carlton_99]

Makes the thread so much more enjoyable not seeing the same old crap from that crusty old bagger. Adds zero.

Good luck with the Carlton pile on, they dont like it when someody challenges a ridiculous claim. A few should stick to the Bagger boards where they can all circle jerk about how good their list is.

Another that seems incapable of accepting alternative opinions to their own. "If you disagree with me go back to your own board" is hilarious

 

[doppleganger]

Another that seems incapable of accepting alternative opinions to their own. "If you disagree with me go back to your own board" is hilarious

Are you still trying to ignore that a key Oak As moneyball concept was deliberately not drafting high-school kids?

People being completely wrong is different to somebody having an opinion.

 

[carlton_99]

Are you still trying to ignore that a key Oak As moneyball concept was deliberately not drafting high-school kids?

People being completely wrong is different to somebody having an opinion.

I am not ignoring anything. It was you that mentioned high school kids not me. Moneyball is using analytics to find players that are undervalued by the market relative to the impact they would have on that team. That has been my point all along and why I don't think Houston/Perryman fit in that category as they were not undervalued by the market.

You kept saying I was saying the player had to be cheap which is not what undervalued means. So no point discussing it further when you ignore what I am writing.

And your comment I just replied to was about the Carlton list. What people think of Carltons list is their opinion. You wanting people to leave this thread because they don't agree with you says a lot.

 

[Chronz]

How the **** has there been 7 pages of new posts since late last night? I'm not reading all those Blose melts.

 

[Arr0w]

I am not ignoring anything. It was you that mentioned high school kids not me. Moneyball is using analytics to find players that are undervalued by the market. That has been my point all along and why I don't think Houston/Perryman fit in that category as they were not undervalued by the market.

You kept saying I was saying the player had to be cheap which is not what undervalued means. So no point discussing it further when you ignore what I am writing.

And your comment I just replied to was about the Carlton list. What people think of Carltons list is their opinion. You wanting people to leave this thread because they don't agree with you says a lot.

It's actually quite simple, Houston and Perryman aren't moneyball acquisitions

 

[carlton_99]

It's actually quite simple, Houston and Perryman aren't moneyball acquisitions

That is my view as well but if people do disagree I'm not hoping they leave the thread

 

[doppleganger]

You kept saying I was saying the player had to be cheap which is not what undervalued means. So no point discussing it further when you ignore what I am writing.

Please, you specifically said that it is about money

If they used those same stats and then had to spend what the Yankees or Red Sox would spend then it goes against the very point of Moneyball. It's literally got "money" in the word

No ignoring of what you were writing, it was just drivel.

And your comment I just replied to was about the Carlton list. What people think of Carltons list is their opinion. You wanting people to leave this thread because they don't agree with you says a lot.

Anybody who dares disagree with a Baggers opinion cops a pile on.

It is the main board, why whenever somebody challenges a Bagger opinion they are accused of being a troll and cop the pile on?

 

[carlton_99]

Please, you specifically said that it is about money

I said undervalued not cheap in AFL undervalued can be based on salary and/or draft capital. With the As it was salary - they needed to look for undervalued prospects in the market because they were never going to be able to compete traditionally with bigger market teams with bigger salary caps. The way they did this was by using analytics regarding like you said overlooked statistics like on base %.

This words it better than I ever could but is the exact point I have been making.

Anybody who dares disagree with a Baggers opinion cops a pile on.

It is the main board, why whenever somebody challenges a Bagger opinion they are accused of being a troll and cop the pile on?

I have never called someone a troll for providing an alternative opinion to mine. Throughout our whole conversation about Moneyball or the whole Ares thing yesterday did you ever see me tell you or the other posters they shouldn't have an opinion or call them a troll? Trolling is the constant back and forth with Curnow is crap Walsh is crap Daicos is crap etc

 

[South of the Yarra]

So Blues fans, Am I right in saying you believe Carlton were better than Collingwood in 2024 as you finished higher on the ladder? Is this correct?

 

[Corn Cobbers]

So Blues fans, Am I right in saying you believe Carlton were better than Collingwood in 2024 as you finished higher on the ladder? Is this correct?

Yep there are dead bodies all over that hill

Stubborn [emoji21]

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[Arr0w]

So Blues fans, Am I right in saying you believe Carlton were better than Collingwood in 2024 as you finished higher on the ladder? Is this correct?

Absolutely, the same metric that determines who plays finals, who gets the double chance and so on

 

[Scritchyscroony]

How the **** has there been 7 pages of new posts since late last night? I'm not reading all those Blose melts.

Well there's just been so much to talk about.
Moneyball
Carlton being shit
Rat's toss sacks
Carlton being a joke
Mr Meow getting them all hot and bothered.
Carlton being pathetic
Sidebottom still being better than Acres at the age of 96.

 

[Arr0w]

Well there's just been so much to talk about.
Moneyball
Pies still in mexico
Rat's toss sacks
Carlton being the better side
Mr Meow getting them all into hysterical laughter
Carlton being the better team since WWII
Sidebottom still being better than Acres at the age of 96.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Absolutely, the same metric that determines who plays finals, who gets the double chance and so on

Fantastic, thank you so much for admitting that Collingwood are the greatest team in the history of the VFL /AFL. That argument is dead at the admission of Carlton fans so lets move on to 2025

 

[Arr0w]

Fantastic, thank you so much for admitting that Collingwood are the greatest team in the history of the VFL /AFL. That argument is dead at the admission of Carlton fans so lets move on to 2025

Umm what? Did I say losing GFs?

If you haven't noticed, we are the better side this year and post WWII

But we have both won 16 flags

 

[doppleganger]

The way they did this was by using analytics regarding like you said overlooked statistics like on base %.

I am very aware of what the concept was and what the As did.

They identified what was important to winning games of baseball, batters not getting out and getting on base. They then decided to not draft high-school kids, as they wanted senior blokes who they could evaluate how they performed through their stats to try and reduce the risk of a bust.

The very point of Moneyball was winning, but as Moneyball has literally got "money" in the word people miss the point.

I have never called someone a troll for providing an alternative opinion to mine.

You may not have specifically, (I am not sure where I ever said you did?) but go have a read of the boring Bagger pile on in the last five pages.

The Carlton crew all pile on telling a poster to leave the thread, to feck off, labelling a troll all because they decide to challenge a position. Piss poor.

 

[carlton_99]

The Carlton crew all pile on telling a poster to leave the thread, to feck off, labelling a troll all because they decide to challenge a position. Piss poor.

Challenging a position is different to telling a person their opinion isn't valid imo

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Fantastic, thank you so much for admitting that Collingwood are the greatest team in the history of the VFL /AFL. That argument is dead at the admission of Carlton fans so lets move on to 2025

Nice to get that out of the way early in the off-season, long overdue concession, Pies are Number One, now we can concentrate on 2025 [emoji106]

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[Mr Meow]

Challenging a position is different to telling a person their opinion isn't valid imo

Valid: having a sound basis in logic or fact; reasonable or cogent.

If I am saying your opinion is invalid, I am disagreeing that it has a sound basis in logic or fact. Sidebottom not helping the defence would be an example, one I backed with statistics. You are free to then disagree on the original point and state your reasons.

You're being precious about another way of saying "I think what you said about x is wrong".

 

[carlton_99]

Valid: having a sound basis in logic or fact; reasonable or cogent.

If I am saying your opinion is invalid, I am disagreeing that it has a sound basis in logic or fact. Sidebottom not helping the defence would be an example, one I backed with statistics. You are free to then disagree on the original point and state your reasons.

You're being precious about another way of saying "I think what you said about x is wrong".

I never said Sidebotton didn't help defence. Anyway not going through this again.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

I never said Sidebotton didn't help defence. Anyway not going through this again.

Ur opinion isn't valid as a Carlton supporter. I figured that would be obvious in a banter thread about Carlton and Collingwood!

 

[Mr Meow]

I never said Sidebotton didn't help defence. Anyway not going through this again.

You said Acres was the 3rd-4th best wingman in the comp over the past 2 years. That you would only take Gulden and J.Daicos ahead of him in that position - but not McLuggage, J.Kelly, Holmes or Massimo. That there was a huge gulf between Acres and Sidebottom output over the past 2 seasons.

Reasoning: he runs hard into defence and can take an aerial mark. The others pop into other positions as well so they could be excluded on that basis.

As opinions: lacking a sound basis in logic or fact; reason or cogency. Reply: invalid statements in my opinion.

 

[doppleganger]

Challenging a position is different to telling a person their opinion isn't valid imo

I assume you must have been embarrassed by the piss poor Bagger pile on telling a poster to feck off and leave.

 

[carlton_99]

You said Acres was the 3rd-4th best wingman in the comp over the past 3 years. That you would only take Gulden and J.Daicos ahead of him in that position - but not McLuggage, J.Kelly, Holmes or Massimo. That there was a huge gulf between Acres and Sidebottom output over the past 2 seasons.

Reasoning: he runs hard into defence and can take an aerial mark. The others pop into other positions as well so they could be excluded on that basis.

As opinions: lacking a sound basis in logic or fact; reason or cogency.

I said that Sidebottom wouldn't come close to doing what Acres did for Carlton over the last two years. I said Acres' biggest impact as a winger was his ability to get back and help out the defence aerially - a trait that Sidebottom doesn't have. This aerial ability is also important in the F50. Don't get how this isn't logical.

You said that if you swapped Acres for Sidebottom it wouldn't have made a big difference and I disagreed.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Umm what? Did I say losing GFs?

If you haven't noticed, we are the better side this year and post WWII

But we have both won 16 flags

No, you said if you finish higher on the ladder you are better. We have finished higher on the ladder more times than you so by your metric we are the better club.

Thank you so much for conceding,
Collingwood the Greatest Club of them All.