Are you still trying to ignore that a key Oak As moneyball concept was deliberately not drafting high-school kids?
People being completely wrong is different to somebody having an opinion.
Banter Who will be Better in 2025, Collingwood or Carlton? Part 4
- Thread starter Wosh
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Banter threads are not to be taken too seriously. Have fun. Let others have fun.
People being completely wrong is different to somebody having an opinion.
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I am not ignoring anything. It was you that mentioned high school kids not me. Moneyball is using analytics to find players that are undervalued by the market relative to the impact they would have on that team. That has been my point all along and why I don't think Houston/Perryman fit in that category as they were not undervalued by the market.
You kept saying I was saying the player had to be cheap which is not what undervalued means. So no point discussing it further when you ignore what I am writing.
And your comment I just replied to was about the Carlton list. What people think of Carltons list is their opinion. You wanting people to leave this thread because they don't agree with you says a lot.
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- Feb 27, 2011
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How the **** has there been 7 pages of new posts since late last night? I'm not reading all those Blose melts.
It's actually quite simple, Houston and Perryman aren't moneyball acquisitions
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That is my view as well but if people do disagree I'm not hoping they leave the thread
Please, you specifically said that it is about money
No ignoring of what you were writing, it was just drivel.
Anybody who dares disagree with a Baggers opinion cops a pile on.
It is the main board, why whenever somebody challenges a Bagger opinion they are accused of being a troll and cop the pile on?
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I said undervalued not cheap in AFL undervalued can be based on salary and/or draft capital. With the As it was salary - they needed to look for undervalued prospects in the market because they were never going to be able to compete traditionally with bigger market teams with bigger salary caps. The way they did this was by using analytics regarding like you said overlooked statistics like on base %.
This words it better than I ever could but is the exact point I have been making.
I have never called someone a troll for providing an alternative opinion to mine. Throughout our whole conversation about Moneyball or the whole Ares thing yesterday did you ever see me tell you or the other posters they shouldn't have an opinion or call them a troll? Trolling is the constant back and forth with Curnow is crap Walsh is crap Daicos is crap etc
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South of the Yarra
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So Blues fans, Am I right in saying you believe Carlton were better than Collingwood in 2024 as you finished higher on the ladder? Is this correct?
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Absolutely, the same metric that determines who plays finals, who gets the double chance and so on
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Scritchyscroony
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Well there's just been so much to talk about.
Moneyball
Carlton being shit
Rat's toss sacks
Carlton being a joke
Mr Meow getting them all hot and bothered.
Carlton being pathetic
Sidebottom still being better than Acres at the age of 96.
South of the Yarra
Brownlow Medallist
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Fantastic, thank you so much for admitting that Collingwood are the greatest team in the history of the VFL /AFL. That argument is dead at the admission of Carlton fans so lets move on to 2025
Umm what? Did I say losing GFs?
If you haven't noticed, we are the better side this year and post WWII
But we have both won 16 flags
I am very aware of what the concept was and what the As did.
They identified what was important to winning games of baseball, batters not getting out and getting on base. They then decided to not draft high-school kids, as they wanted senior blokes who they could evaluate how they performed through their stats to try and reduce the risk of a bust.
The very point of Moneyball was winning, but as Moneyball has literally got "money" in the word people miss the point.
You may not have specifically, (I am not sure where I ever said you did?) but go have a read of the boring Bagger pile on in the last five pages.
The Carlton crew all pile on telling a poster to leave the thread, to feck off, labelling a troll all because they decide to challenge a position. Piss poor.
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Challenging a position is different to telling a person their opinion isn't valid imo
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Nice to get that out of the way early in the off-season, long overdue concession, Pies are Number One, now we can concentrate on 2025
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Valid: having a sound basis in logic or fact; reasonable or cogent.
If I am saying your opinion is invalid, I am disagreeing that it has a sound basis in logic or fact. Sidebottom not helping the defence would be an example, one I backed with statistics. You are free to then disagree on the original point and state your reasons.
You're being precious about another way of saying "I think what you said about x is wrong".
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I never said Sidebotton didn't help defence. Anyway not going through this again.
- Mar 25, 2019
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Ur opinion isn't valid as a Carlton supporter. I figured that would be obvious in a banter thread about Carlton and Collingwood!
You said Acres was the 3rd-4th best wingman in the comp over the past 2 years. That you would only take Gulden and J.Daicos ahead of him in that position - but not McLuggage, J.Kelly, Holmes or Massimo. That there was a huge gulf between Acres and Sidebottom output over the past 2 seasons.
Reasoning: he runs hard into defence and can take an aerial mark. The others pop into other positions as well so they could be excluded on that basis.
As opinions: lacking a sound basis in logic or fact; reason or cogency. Reply: invalid statements in my opinion.
I assume you must have been embarrassed by the piss poor Bagger pile on telling a poster to feck off and leave.
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I said that Sidebottom wouldn't come close to doing what Acres did for Carlton over the last two years. I said Acres' biggest impact as a winger was his ability to get back and help out the defence aerially - a trait that Sidebottom doesn't have. This aerial ability is also important in the F50. Don't get how this isn't logical.
You said that if you swapped Acres for Sidebottom it wouldn't have made a big difference and I disagreed.
South of the Yarra
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No, you said if you finish higher on the ladder you are better. We have finished higher on the ladder more times than you so by your metric we are the better club.
Thank you so much for conceding,
Collingwood the Greatest Club of them All.
The statement actually, which you refuted, was that it wouldn't move the needle a huge amount by having Sidebottom instead of Acres in the merged Carlton/Collingwood team. We're not talking about swapping Cripps for the 2024 version of De Goey.
The "invalid" bit is having Acres as one of the best wingmen in the comp, where you would only take 2 ahead of him. In reality you have to make it a group of 7-10 before he gets a serious look in.
You are seriously overrating Acres impact, who has had less than 30 coaches votes over the past 2 years while Kelly, Holmes, McLuggage and the two wingmen you had ahead of Acres (Daicos/Gulden) have all had big tallies in similar roles.
You did state that Sidebottom lacks defensive work/running, even once I showed his rebound 50s are about the same as Acres and his tackle/1%er numbers have actually been higher in the same timeframe. It's obvious to anyone that has watched Sidebottom that he has lost his attacking weaponry but is pushing to the defensive side of the field consistently. He can't get back on the end of transition attacks much any more.
So me stating your opinion lacks reasoning or logic (in my opinion) is fine, given I presented arguments and statistics that argued against them.
"Well that's just like your opinion man" is a very weak response once that happens.
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