Why do people "hate" football (soccer)?

[madmug]

Football fans pre match:

[youtube]MdbphEC7Rwc[/youtube]

AFL fans pre match:
[youtube]UR_BFB5FS8Y[/youtube]

I dont hate 'soccer' (I had a bit of a go at it about a 1000 yrs ago)
But I dont like the 'political' push to have it called football. As if it gives the game some sort of moral high ground. This is Australia. Different regions have a variety of football codes they call football.
I laugh at the roundballers who seem to think they will somehow take over the attention of the sports public in this country.
The game is popular with kids, it always has been, because its easy for kids to play with a round ball.
The professional level is a poor imitation of what happens in Europe, South America & even Asia.
The A league has gotten carried away with itself. It is broke. Clubs are in debt. It has to pull player wages back. It wont expand anytime soon. Once again the roundballers have gotten carried away with their own imagination.
When will they realise that other games exist & are much more popular with the public.
We all like to see the Socceroos (sorry, should that be footballroos???) do well, just like any other national team. The Aleague & its supporters however, just keep getting carried away with themselves at club level.
So if you think others hate soccer, maybe. I think its more about getting tired of the ********s who cant see the reality of where their sport is in this country.

 

[Ironmonger]

I reckon the Smith report helps highlight why some of us get sick of the moaning and whining from soccer people.

This line bugs me. And I think it goes a long way to understand why there's so much prejudice against soccer fans in Australia.

There's only a very small handful of soccer fans who light flares, start fights at games, whinge about anti-soccer 'conspiracies' and insist that everyone call it football.

But those are the people who get all the attention, and become seen as 'soccer people'. I consider myself a soccer person, but I don't think I spend a lot of time whinging and moaning about it. I also consider myself an AFL person, and to a lesser extent a cricket person.

It's like anything we don't understand: we latch on to the most extreme, visible elements and project that on to everyone else. So all Muslims become terrorists and all homosexuals are mardi-gras-marching screaming queens.

The way in which Australian society has become so polarised about soccer is utterly, utterly stupid. It's a sport. A frigging passtime. It's supported across the world by all different kinds of people in all different kinds of ways. And yet for some reason there are people who try to generalise their fans according to the most unpleasant stereotype they can find.

 

[Munro_Mick]

Surely a clever guy like yourself can see the perfectly good explanation as to why Football gets given Government funds to grow? And lets face it...it is only in recent years that this has become the case as Governments wise up to what Football can do for a country economically...

funny thing is - - I'm yet to cotton on.

Perhaps the raging success of the Asian Cup here in a couple of years will open my eyes.

I'll do my best impression of Pauline Hanson.

Please explain.

 

[Munro_Mick]

This line bugs me. And I think it goes a long way to understand why there's so much prejudice against soccer fans in Australia.

There's only a very small handful of soccer fans who light flares, start fights at games, whinge about anti-soccer 'conspiracies' and insist that everyone call it football.

But those are the people who get all the attention, and become seen as 'soccer people'. I consider myself a soccer person, but I don't think I spend a lot of time whinging and moaning about it. I also consider myself an AFL person, and to a lesser extent a cricket person.

It's like anything we don't understand: we latch on to the most extreme, visible elements and project that on to everyone else. So all Muslims become terrorists and all homosexuals are mardi-gras-marching screaming queens.

The way in which Australian society has become so polarised about soccer is utterly, utterly stupid. It's a sport. A frigging passtime. It's supported across the world by all different kinds of people in all different kinds of ways. And yet for some reason there are people who try to generalise their fans according to the most unpleasant stereotype they can find.

forgive me that I'd normally use phrasing more like :
the moaning and whining from SOME soccer people.
or
the moaning and whining from soccer-zealots.

re Aust Society's polarisation......well, it's not all that sudden. Look back to July 1880 (when the NSW FA was established - Vic rules), and also around the time that English Association football was being introduce - and look at the vitriol of some of the letters to the editor of the day.

And the same old arguments persist today.

The World Cup bid though really did bring a lot of it to the surface and really, really has burned some bridges and broken down some good will.

 

[Ironmonger]

forgive me that I'd normally use phrasing more like :
the moaning and whining from SOME soccer people.
or
the moaning and whining from soccer-zealots.

re Aust Society's polarisation......well, it's not all that sudden. Look back to July 1880 (when the NSW FA was established - Vic rules), and also around the time that English Association football was being introduce - and look at the vitriol of some of the letters to the editor of the day.

And the same old arguments persist today.

The World Cup bid though really did bring a lot of it to the surface and really, really has burned some bridges and broken down some good will.

I'd consider myself a soccer-zealot! I'm pretty enthusiastic about it, just not to the point of setting things on fire.

I completely agree that the polarisation has been for decades. It's just another example of the battle between 'us' and 'them', which is as old as mankind.

Not sure that the World Cup bid was a particular flashpoint, but maybe it was for some.

 

[mcuzzy]

I dont hate 'soccer' (I had a bit of a go at it about a 1000 yrs ago)
But I dont like the 'political' push to have it called football. As if it gives the game some sort of moral high ground. This is Australia. Different regions have a variety of football codes they call football.
I laugh at the roundballers who seem to think they will somehow take over the attention of the sports public in this country.
The game is popular with kids, it always has been, because its easy for kids to play with a round ball.
The professional level is a poor imitation of what happens in Europe, South America & even Asia.
The A league has gotten carried away with itself. It is broke. Clubs are in debt. It has to pull player wages back. It wont expand anytime soon. Once again the roundballers have gotten carried away with their own imagination.
When will they realise that other games exist & are much more popular with the public.
We all like to see the Socceroos (sorry, should that be footballroos???) do well, just like any other national team. The Aleague & its supporters however, just keep getting carried away with themselves at club level.
So if you think others hate soccer, maybe. I think its more about getting tired of the ********s who cant see the reality of where their sport is in this country.

Idiot.

 

[Munro_Mick]

I'd consider myself a soccer-zealot! I'm pretty enthusiastic about it, just not to the point of setting things on fire.

I completely agree that the polarisation has been for decades. It's just another example of the battle between 'us' and 'them', which is as old as mankind.

Not sure that the World Cup bid was a particular flashpoint, but maybe it was for some.

what the World Cup bid did was bring to the surface perhaps just the 'extremists' - and they went early and pretty hard. In many respects, a 'tool' like Craig Foster was the perfect example.

(sheesh, Phil Hughes out again, if Brad Hodge got left out years back for being vulnerable outside off,...what's keeping Hughes in the side??)

anyway - there were a lot of people almost begging the Govt to steamroll the AFL via legislation, and predicting the fall of AFL and rise of soccer in it's place and other relatively non-sensical stuff. Foster and other media operators (at Fairfax, Cockerill and Lynch) went hard, and went early. It backfired somewhat I reckon. Before that, a lot of people didn't really care either way.

 

[Ironmonger]

what the World Cup bid did was bring to the surface perhaps just the 'extremists' - and they went early and pretty hard. In many respects, a 'tool' like Craig Foster was the perfect example.

(sheesh, Phil Hughes out again, if Brad Hodge got left out years back for being vulnerable outside off,...what's keeping Hughes in the side??)

anyway - there were a lot of people almost begging the Govt to steamroll the AFL via legislation, and predicting the fall of AFL and rise of soccer in it's place and other relatively non-sensical stuff. Foster and other media operators (at Fairfax, Cockerill and Lynch) went hard, and went early. It backfired somewhat I reckon. Before that, a lot of people didn't really care either way.

A lack of quality openers is what's keeping Hughes in the side. Poor old Brad Hodge came along at the wrong time.

MM, I think you're overstating the case with your comments about 'Foster and other media operators' quite a bit. Foster has written some rubbish about the AFL, but I don't remember him ever predicting it's fall and the rise of soccer in it's place. I certainly don't recall Lynch ever doing that. Unless I've missed something completely he's always seemed quite measured when (briefly) discussing other codes.

Munro, you seem like you're doing your best to be even-handed, but frankly I think you might be stuck in a mindset of seeing soccer fans and journalists as frothing-at-the-mouth extremists as a whole.

From my point of view, AFL and NRL journalists are, if anything more nasty towards soccer than the other way around. Mike Sheehan's bizzare piece after the 06/07 A-league semi-final was, in my opinion, the lowest point in cross-code journalism.

 

[Tigerdrive]

From my point of view, AFL and NRL journalists are, if anything more nasty towards soccer than the other way around. Mike Sheehan's bizzare piece after the 06/07 A-league semi-final was, in my opinion, the lowest point in cross-code journalism.

I remember that article, he went on and on about how the game was crap despite the fact he left early before Victory hit the winner.

On the other side of the coin though Gary Lyon wrote a great article about his exprience at the 06 World Cup.

 

[Boro]

funny thing is - - I'm yet to cotton on.

Perhaps the raging success of the Asian Cup here in a couple of years will open my eyes.

I'll do my best impression of Pauline Hanson.

Please explain.

I've only got a few seconds but it's not rocket science Mick. A sport that envelops the whole of Asia's growing economy as well as Europe opens more doors to Australian businesses than RL or AFL. They can actually make money by putting funds into Soccer. Government didn't throw money at a WC bid because they wanted to appease FFA...they know that an event like that would boost the economy hugely, and it also puts the whole Worlds focus on us which helps Australian business.

I guess your Asian Cup remark has you thinking it'll be a failure? I don't think how many people go to watch Saudi Arabia play Iraq will decide whether hosting the Asian Cup is a success or not...the amount it boosts the economy and opens up avenues for Australian business will decide if it is a failure or not.

 

[Zidane98]

funny thing is - - I'm yet to cotton on.

Perhaps the raging success of the Asian Cup here in a couple of years will open my eyes.

I'll do my best impression of Pauline Hanson.

Please explain.

I guess you must be happy with the raging success that North Melbourne football club is, with massive member base and huge crowds. Come to think about it, I'll judge how successful how the AFL is based on North Melbourne's success because you seem to want to make a judgement on football based on the Asian Cup here.

 

[Boro]

I guess you must be happy with the raging success that North Melbourne football club is, with massive member base and huge crowds. Come to think about it, I'll judge how successful how the AFL is based on North Melbourne's success because you seem to want to make a judgement on football based on the Asian Cup here.

You'll be thinking it's successful when North win the GF in the next couple of years then

 

[Zidane98]

You'll be thinking it's successful when North win the GF in the next couple of years then

If it isn't the Hawks that win I'd be happy for North to win, probably the club in Melbourne that I despise the least. Although even in your glory years in the late 90's you still managed to lose money winning premierships

 

[Normy132]

Mike Cockerill, full of rubbish on that thing about FFA being cash-strapped. I can tell you for a fact no football association in this country will go broke or is even remotely close to going broke. The A-League maybe, but no way the FFA.

 

[Puddy]

I guess you must be happy with the raging success that North Melbourne football club is, with massive member base and huge crowds. Come to think about it, I'll judge how successful how the AFL is based on North Melbourne's success because you seem to want to make a judgement on football based on the Asian Cup here.

Mate, I wouldnt be slagging off Football Clubs when Soccer in Australia is dying. The Smith report shows the dire situation Australian Soccer is really in

 

[Puddy]

Surely a clever guy like yourself can see the perfectly good explanation as to why Soccer gets given Government funds to grow? And lets face it...it is only in recent years that this has become the case as Governments wise up to what Soccer can do for a country economically...

Please tell me you dont actually believe that. Soccer has done nothing but hurt Australia economically. The big events (soccer world cup) have proven to have no economic benefits (in South Africas case the WC helped cripple the economy)

 

[Munro_Mick]

A lack of quality openers is what's keeping Hughes in the side. Poor old Brad Hodge came along at the wrong time.

MM, I think you're overstating the case with your comments about 'Foster and other media operators' quite a bit. Foster has written some rubbish about the AFL, but I don't remember him ever predicting it's fall and the rise of soccer in it's place. I certainly don't recall Lynch ever doing that. Unless I've missed something completely he's always seemed quite measured when (briefly) discussing other codes.

Munro, you seem like you're doing your best to be even-handed, but frankly I think you might be stuck in a mindset of seeing soccer fans and journalists as frothing-at-the-mouth extremists as a whole.

From my point of view, AFL and NRL journalists are, if anything more nasty towards soccer than the other way around. Mike Sheehan's bizzare piece after the 06/07 A-league semi-final was, in my opinion, the lowest point in cross-code journalism.

Mike Sheehan's piece was odd - certainly, - I've not really been a fan of his. I think his defence was that it was a commissioned 'opinion piece' that was NOT in the sports section - and he promised not to go into that territory again (after the abusive reaction from some) - and it seems he kept that promise. Again - I'm no fan of Sheehan.

re the Fairfax media mafia - I followed quite closely the reporting around the WC bid. I won't bore you with it now, but, there were enough examples of Cockerill and Lynch in particular.

I've got a timeline file of the reporting around the WC bid and Lynch and Cockerill, if you want, I can show you how bad they performed!!

 

[Munro_Mick]

I've only got a few seconds but it's not rocket science Mick. A sport that envelops the whole of Asia's growing economy as well as Europe opens more doors to Australian businesses than RL or AFL. They can actually make money by putting funds into Soccer. Government didn't throw money at a WC bid because they wanted to appease FFA...they know that an event like that would boost the economy hugely, and it also puts the whole Worlds focus on us which helps Australian business.

I guess your Asian Cup remark has you thinking it'll be a failure? I don't think how many people go to watch Saudi Arabia play Iraq will decide whether hosting the Asian Cup is a success or not...the amount it boosts the economy and opens up avenues for Australian business will decide if it is a failure or not.

funny you say that about Govt's throwing money at the WC bid. Rudd did. He's an ideas man is K.Rudd!! The state govt's weren't so ready, sure, they signed off on it - but, there was going to be a mighty fight over where the money came from - which was pretty well why, with a tight budget the event in Australia was going to rely on using AFL venues. Damn shame that - if it was worth so much money then they'd been building their own stadiums, but, that's the quickest way to provide REAL expense on one side to expose the airy fairy non financial benefits on the other side.

The Asian Cup remark - is more that I advocated back during the discussion around the WC bid that Australia should first aim at an Asian Cup and see how that goes. A WC in Australia would always be super reliant on mass tourism to the far side of the world - - getting some more 'Asian' runs on the board would surely help.

One thing that was a couple of years back with the shared 4 nation hosting of the Asian cup was that there were a couple of games with 500 people posted as the attendance and in the main without a host nation involved, many of the stadia struggled to get half full. Australian's generally smell a rat pretty quick - so, I'd be surprised to see a big turn out for Oman vs Saudi Arabia but if I'm proven wrong then good luck to them.

 

[Boro]

Please tell me you dont actually believe that. Soccer has done nothing but hurt Australia economically. The big events (soccer world cup) have proven to have no economic benefits (in South Africas case the WC helped cripple the economy)

The big events have no economic benefits? Really? Better check your facts on that one. Most WC's make profit and give a huge boost to the economy and one run by Australia would be very succesful imo, but that isn't what I was talking about. It is about the opportunity for the Government and Australian business to move into growing markets and Football can help that happen. It's an avenue for business and Government dealings to be done. That has nothing to do with which game is better, but it is one reason money is put into the sport by the Government.

 

[Puddy]

Re: Why do people "hate" soccer?

The big events have no economic benefits? Really? Better check your facts on that one. Most WC's make profit and give a huge boost to the economy and one run by Australia would be very succesful imo, but that isn't what I was talking about. It is about the opportunity for the Government and Australian business to move into growing markets and Soccer can help that happen. It's an avenue for business and Government dealings to be done. That has nothing to do with which game is better, but it is one reason money is put into the sport by the Government.

The NSW economy has be going backwards ever since the 2000 Olympics, there was huge spending and little return. It was proven during the whole World Cup bid debacle that the World Cup would have a negative effect on the Australian Economy. Massive spending for little return. If the Soccer world cup gave no economic benefits to Germany and helped cripple South Africas economy, what makes you think it will benefit Australia?

Fact is it wouldnt. Its criminal that so much money is being gifted to Soccer by the Australian Government.

 

[Boro]

Re: Why do people "hate" soccer?

The NSW economy has be going backwards ever since the 2000 Olympics, there was huge spending and little return. It was proven during the whole World Cup bid debacle that the World Cup would have a negative effect on the Australian Economy. Massive spending for little return. If the Soccer world cup gave no economic benefits to Germany and helped cripple South Africas economy, what makes you think it will benefit Australia?

Fact is it wouldnt. Its criminal that so much money is being gifted to Soccer by the Australian Government.

Here are some economic outcomes from the WC in Germany.

2.86 billion Euros income during the event.
Direct tax income from tickets, player fees and profit of 104 million
around 50k extra jobs created
a 0.3% rise in GDP solely b/c of the WC
19% growth in the tourism industry
4% growth in Hospitality
an extra 2 billion to retail businesses

Take the financial aspect away and the major improvment the Germans felt was the general perception of the country...It was the best PR for the country since the country was founded as it would be for Australia if it were run properly. What price do you put on that?

 

[Admiral Byng]

Maybe the original question should be rephrased as "Why are so many Australians uninterested in football (soccer)?"

 

[Still Crowing]

Maybe the original question should be rephrased as "Why are so many Australians uninterested in football (soccer)?"

I beg to differ, the question is a valid one. Many people are uninterested in Baseball or Basketball(and yes Soccer too) in this country, but Only soccer seems to attract the type of bile and hatred rather than just a perfectly reasonable "I don't like it so I'll ignore it" attitude that you'd expect and would be perfectly understandable.
Only Soccer seems to draw out the raving loonies frothing at the mouth and unable to contain their glee at sticking the boot in to the game or the fans. Only Soccer has idiots like Mike Sheehan writing articles about a topic he has no expertise in and editors print it with not a second thought. If Craig Foster wrote an article about the AFL Grand Final, and it even got published...he'd be howled down because he has no real knowledge as an analyst or watcher of that sport. Why is it deemed acceptable for soccer illiterates to write their garbage about the sport?

The only reason excuse I can decipher seems to be that Soccer is seen as some sort of threat in some way. Perhaps its the part in the Smith Report of November2011 that details that grassroots football is in very rude health: I quote...

Grassroots football is strong. The number of participants has grown from 1.1 million to 1.7 million between 2001 and 2009. There has been a 52% increase in the number of people playing outdoor football between 2001 and 2009. In this period the number of 5–14 year olds playing the game has grown by 58% and for over 15 years of age the number has grown by 42%. In fact, the biggest challenge for participation is not how to encourage it, but how to meet the demand.

The international teams have also enjoyed unparalleled success. The Socceroos’ Fédération Internationale de Football Association (FIFA) world ranking has improved from 86 to 22, with the team qualifying for the past two World Cup Finals and performing strongly in initial qualifying rounds for the 2014 competition. The Matildas won the 2010 Asian Cup – the first time an Australian team has won a major international tournament. FFA’s decision to move from Oceania to the Asian Football Confederation (AFC) has been credited as a key strategic step, opening the door to higher quality competition and opportunities to advance the game in Australia.

The A-League is a competition of increasing quality, and
After the early rounds, average crowds increased by 42% compared to the same point in the previous season and are up 53% on the season average; television viewing is up 74% compared to the same point in the previous season and up 66% on the season average; and memberships are up 17% on the 2010–11 numbers. The A-League is a competition of quality and professionalism far exceeding that of the National Soccer League which it replaced.
I guess the threat is: Soccer is no longer the pathetic shambles it used to be and that worries some people in some sports for the impact that might have on their previously cushy positions so they lash out; its just that these days Soccer isn't prepared to sit back and just take the crap thrown its way by the bullyboy tactics of other sports and their cheerleaders.

 

[Munro_Mick]

I beg to differ, the question is a valid one. Many people are uninterested in Baseball or Basketball(and yes Soccer too) in this country, but Only soccer seems to attract the type of bile and hatred rather than just a perfectly reasonable "I don't like it so I'll ignore it" attitude that you'd expect and would be perfectly understandable.
Only Soccer seems to draw out the raving loonies frothing at the mouth and unable to contain their glee at sticking the boot in to the game or the fans. Only Soccer has idiots like Mike Sheehan writing articles about a topic he has no expertise in and editors print it with not a second thought. If Craig Foster wrote an article about the AFL Grand Final, and it even got published...he'd be howled down because he has no real knowledge as an analyst or watcher of that sport. Why is it deemed acceptable for soccer illiterates to write their garbage about the sport?

The only reason excuse I can decipher seems to be that Soccer is seen as some sort of threat in some way. Perhaps its the part in the Smith Report of November2011 that details that grassroots football is in very rude health: I quote...

Grassroots football is strong. The number of participants has grown from 1.1 million to 1.7 million between 2001 and 2009. There has been a 52% increase in the number of people playing outdoor football between 2001 and 2009. In this period the number of 5–14 year olds playing the game has grown by 58% and for over 15 years of age the number has grown by 42%. In fact, the biggest challenge for participation is not how to encourage it, but how to meet the demand.

The international teams have also enjoyed unparalleled success. The Socceroos’ Fédération Internationale de Football Association (FIFA) world ranking has improved from 86 to 22, with the team qualifying for the past two World Cup Finals and performing strongly in initial qualifying rounds for the 2014 competition. The Matildas won the 2010 Asian Cup – the first time an Australian team has won a major international tournament. FFA’s decision to move from Oceania to the Asian Football Confederation (AFC) has been credited as a key strategic step, opening the door to higher quality competition and opportunities to advance the game in Australia.

The A-League is a competition of increasing quality, and
After the early rounds, average crowds increased by 42% compared to the same point in the previous season and are up 53% on the season average; television viewing is up 74% compared to the same point in the previous season and up 66% on the season average; and memberships are up 17% on the 2010–11 numbers. The A-League is a competition of quality and professionalism far exceeding that of the National Soccer League which it replaced.
I guess the threat is: Soccer is no longer the pathetic shambles it used to be and that worries some people in some sports for the impact that might have on their previously cushy positions so they lash out; its just that these days Soccer isn't prepared to sit back and just take the crap thrown its way by the bullyboy tactics of other sports and their cheerleaders.

The story goes that Sheehan was asked to attend and write something......who knows if it was predetermined that he'd find it boring or just to put his honest opinion forward. It seemed that it was the editors who requested it rather than 'printing it without a second thought'.

So, what other articles has Sheehan written about soccer other than that 'Ho hum' one??

 

[Munro_Mick]

Re: Why do people "hate" soccer?

Here are some economic outcomes from the WC in Germany.

2.86 billion Euros income during the event.
Direct tax income from tickets, player fees and profit of 104 million
around 50k extra jobs created
a 0.3% rise in GDP solely b/c of the WC
19% growth in the tourism industry
4% growth in Hospitality
an extra 2 billion to retail businesses

Take the financial aspect away and the major improvment the Germans felt was the general perception of the country...It was the best PR for the country since the country was founded as it would be for Australia if it were run properly. What price do you put on that?

Germany is exactly the WRONG model to base an Australian proposition upon.

A. Germany, smack bang in the middle of Europe - the soccer continent - where millions of fans could make a day trip to a game. Australia would require massive tourism influx from a long, long way away - unless the Asian community had really kicked into gear as soccer tourists by that stage. (and it might - but, would be a gamble and also 12-14 years aheahd is a bit far to gamble the economics of air travel).

B. Germany, including the Adidas Company, the profits from whom peak every World Cup, really, they should be excluded from any such economic measures, but weren't. So, where's Australia's 'Adidas'? Nah, we just have retailers selling 'Adidas' gear at inflated prices.

C. The usual problem is making a big show about the figures for the month or two of the event - but, in most cases, what you see is a drop off of normal tourism for the year surrounding the event (compared to normal figures). So, there is an off set. People who might or would come anyway will decide to come for the WC. Then again, others who would've come get scared off because of the higher prices that would characterise WC cities.

D. That the FFA claimed the $150 million to beef up AAMI park as too expensive and too difficult (although the constructor was reported as suggesting it wasn't actually that hard) - - and that as that $150 million was too much, the FFA therefore had to attempt to enroll Govt to help kick the AFL out of Docklands - - well, that was the price of 'world peace in Victoria'. How shoddy a final case if $150 million apparently would break the bank. (okay, I realise the FFA was just itching to get one up on the AFL - that's the only explanation for how they went about it).