Why do people "hate" football (soccer)?

[HawkMongrel]

Between completely missing the point of what he said and invoking Godwin's law, that's all it deserved.

Had to be done.

 

[Admiral Byng]

How did you mean it then?
You certainly gave me the impression that Soccer's "minority status" was something the game shouldn't try to alter and that by attempting to do so it risked alienating fans of other sports.

That soccer people seem to think that soccer is a minority sport as a result of some organised secret campaign by other codes and the media to keep them down. The fact is that they have only ever tried to be a mainstream sport since the formation of the A-League, before that the old NSL was pitched at various ethnic groups - just the old NSL club names reveal that.

The pace of progress hasn't been as fast as everyone hoped because old habits die hard - this is why lots of people still either hate or ignore the game, even with the new A-League. There's years of work ahead to undo the past and grow the game. There seems to be a lot of frustration at the lack of instant success.

 

[.Shotties.]

How did you mean it then?
You certainly gave me the impression that Soccer's "minority status" was something the game shouldn't try to alter and that by attempting to do so it risked alienating fans of other sports.

It certainly reads that way.

Most likely because thus far you've both just looked for whichever way you can find fault in a person's posting rather than actually discuss anything. Standard "smell the fear" type thinking.

To be honest it surprises me how easily offended a number of posters in this thread and bigfooty at large are. From a lot of posting history I've read on this site it'd seem that they'd have no problem displaying the behaviour and bigotry they find so distasteful going the other way.

 

[Normy132]

Highly recommend that everyone in this thread read the Smith Report which was just released. Some good reading in there if you're interested in the future of the sport in this country.

 

[harmesy 37]

Only Soccer seems to draw out the raving loonies frothing at the mouth and unable to contain their glee at sticking the boot in to the game or the fans. Only Soccer has idiots like Mike Sheehan writing articles about a topic he has no expertise in and editors print it with not a second thought. If Craig Foster wrote an article about the AFL Grand Final, and it even got published...he'd be howled down because he has no real knowledge as an analyst or watcher of that sport. Why is it deemed acceptable for soccer illiterates to write their garbage about the sport?

I think you are mistaken...I think all the imported, foreign, English football codes are equally silly/funny/ridiculous. If you start a thread on rugby league, union or soccer I will give you the truth. All of those games are rubbish when compared to the Australian game.


If people gain enjoyment out of them or basketball, or baseball then good on them. It is about enjoying yourself at the end of the day- but if you decide to compare those imported sports to the Australian game then you should expect a response from Australians.


Rubgy union is out in front in my opinion right now as the craziest of them all. How can you have a game which is won by penalty shots alone? oh sorry...that can happen in soccer too. Why play a foot-ball code (union and league) where only two players actually get to kick the ball ..ie use their foot and the ball? craziness..


Re:Craig Foster. That guy wouldn't step within 2 kilometres of an Australian football oval. In his mind, he is still living in South America watching the "beautiful game". He needs a doctor. The doctor should start by telling him he is not in Sao Paulo he is in Australia.

 

[Zidane98]

I think you are mistaken...I think all the imported, foreign, English football codes are equally silly/funny/ridiculous. If you start a thread on rugby league, union or soccer I will give you the truth. All of those games are rubbish when compared to the Australian game.


If people gain enjoyment out of them or basketball, or baseball then good on them. It is about enjoying yourself at the end of the day- but if you decide to compare those imported sports to the Australian game then you should expect a response from Australians.


Rubgy union is out in front in my opinion right now as the craziest of them all. How can you have a game which is won by penalty shots alone? oh sorry...that can happen in soccer too. Why play a foot-ball code (union and league) where only two players actually get to kick the ball ..ie use their foot and the ball? craziness..


Re:Craig Foster. That guy wouldn't step within 2 kilometres of an Australian football oval. In his mind, he is still living in South America watching the "beautiful game". He needs a doctor. The doctor should start by telling him he is not in Sao Paulo he is in Australia.

Thankyou for confirming AFL bigotry is alive and well.

 

[Still Crowing]

That soccer people seem to think that soccer is a minority sport as a result of some organised secret campaign by other codes and the media to keep them down. The fact is that they have only ever tried to be a mainstream sport since the formation of the A-League, before that the old NSL was pitched at various ethnic groups - just the old NSL club names reveal that.

The pace of progress hasn't been as fast as everyone hoped because old habits die hard - this is why lots of people still either hate or ignore the game, even with the new A-League. There's years of work ahead to undo the past and grow the game. There seems to be a lot of frustration at the lack of instant success.

I agree with the bolded bit. I cringed when I felt the over zealous were getting ahead of themselves after the third season of the A-League. We got off to a brilliant start, but starting a brand new league in any sport let alone Soccer( overcoming the years of inertia as a basketcase) in a crowded sports landscape like Australia's was always going to be difficult. Building the HAL into a strong and viable league is likely to take the best part of 50 years. I mean, we had 2 years in a row of crowd averages declining finally arrested this season and people were lining up to stick the boot in. IMO Soccer has to aim for slow and steady growth and be in it for the long haul. fans need the time to become parents and those parents need the time to be able to take their children to their first game much as has happened over the last 100 years in both Aussie Rules Football and RL.

Honestly I think a lot of the frustration stems from the years spent being treated like the redheaded step-child of Australian sport. I posted earlier about respect. Soccer isn't shown much at all and that grates more than anything because a lot of the arguments used to belittle the sport are nonsense(the game has been here as long as cricket and RL - but is still seen as foreign is just one example). Achievements are often belittled, but the fans I feel need to chill and understand that respect can only come from building a tradition of Soccer at the top level achieving good things (like the Socceroos doing well at the World Cup etc). Perhaps hosting a major international tournament like the Asian Cup in 2015 will help open some eyes to the game? I guess we'll see. Hosting the Rugby World Cup in 2003 did good things for the image of rugby Union for sure.

 

[Munro_Mick]

Honestly I think a lot of the frustration stems from the years spent being treated like the redheaded step-child of Australian sport. I posted earlier about respect. Soccer isn't shown much at all and that grates more than anything because a lot of the arguments used to belittle the sport are nonsense(the game has been here as long as cricket and RL - but is still seen as foreign is just one example). Achievements are often belittled, but the fans I feel need to chill and understand that respect can only come from building a tradition of Soccer at the top level achieving good things (like the Socceroos doing well at the World Cup etc). Perhaps hosting a major international tournament like the Asian Cup in 2015 will help open some eyes to the game? I guess we'll see. Hosting the Rugby World Cup in 2003 did good things for the image of rugby Union for sure.

treated by whom??

I mean, you generally reap what you sow. Soccer has managed to be a bit of a mismash over the years and the 'foreign' aspect, well, prior to WW1 it was 'English Association', after that it tended to be 'British Association football', and then post WWII is perhaps when it became most 'foreign' when the game effectively became the domain of 'new Australians' (noting, my parents were Northern European 'new Australians'). The game then became perhaps TOO characterised by it's 'foreign' elements (culturally).

re RL, I regard that game as foreign, it's the RL people who try to proclaim it as 'Australian' as Aust Footy. Bit of a Faganism style argument that one.

The reality of the FFA and HAL is still NOT about the attitudes of non-soccer followers to the game, but, of the inability to engage with and mobilise the 'soccer army'.

re hosting the Asian cup.....perhaps, but, we've hosted Olympic soccer (2nd most attendees behind athletics wasn't it??), and we've seen Man Utd here, and WC qualifiers......

The thing I still ponder about, is that for many people, their 'local' sport is perhaps AFL and NRL, and their 'international' sport might be Socceroos, Wallabies, Cricket team. Is it possible for a single code to come out number one domestically, interstate and international??

 

[JD-Roo]

Highly recommend that everyone in this thread read the Smith Report which was just released. Some good reading in there if you're interested in the future of the sport in this country.

Here 'tis....

http://www.dpmc.gov.au/sport/resources/reports/football_review.cfm

 

[Munro_Mick]

Perhaps hosting a major international tournament like the Asian Cup in 2015 will help open some eyes to the game? I guess we'll see. Hosting the Rugby World Cup in 2003 did good things for the image of rugby Union for sure.

actually the ARU had a few down years after the RWC 2003 tournament. John O'Neill headed to the FFA and the ARU books took a beating and the game seemed to lose direction.

The 2007 Asian Cup co-hosted amongst 4 nations (Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand and Vietnam) was an interesting example.

Given that there were 4 host nations, and in the pool stages for example - each pool based in a host nation with that nation in the pool. Pool A in Thailand with most games at the 65K capacity Rajamangala stadium in Bangkok, and even the national team could do not better than 46K hosting Australia and averaged under 32K over the 3 'home' games. Then there were the 5K and 6K tallies when Aust played Oman and Iraq.

Thankfully the Oman and Iraq game was scheduled for a smaller 35K stadium.......with an official attendance of 500!!!

In pool B, in Hanoi, the home team filled the stadium (My Dinh, 40K capacity), but Japan v UAE and Japan v Qatar only drew 5K each, and Qatar v UAE at the smaller Army Stadium in Ho Chi Minh City drew 3K in a 25K venue.

Malaysia at home was even less engaging than Thailand. The home team vs China drawing 21,155 in an 87K venue, and then on 7,137 when hosting Uzbekistan, followed by 4,520 hosting Iran. A paltry tally of under 33K for 3 matches by the home team at an 87K venue!! No need to mention the other pool matches barely drawing 10,000.

Thankgod for the Indonesian team playing at home - packing out the 88K Gelora Bung Karno Stadium in Jakarta. However, other matches barely rating with Saudi Arabia v Bahrain drawing 500, although Sth Korea got 15K and 9K to it's two matches against the Saudi's and Bahrain respectively.

The question is - what would that achieve in Australia? 24 pool matches. The Socceroos the big ticket item. Would Asian soccer tourists descend on Australia? Would matches be played at the SFS? Docklands? AAMI park? or at smaller venues?

I'm just not quite sure what to expect.

 

[HawkMongrel]

Most likely because thus far you've both just looked for whichever way you can find fault in a person's posting rather than actually discuss anything. Standard "smell the fear" type thinking.

To be honest it surprises me how easily offended a number of posters in this thread and bigfooty at large are. From a lot of posting history I've read on this site it'd seem that they'd have no problem displaying the behaviour and bigotry they find so distasteful going the other way.

As a rather proud 13-year Hawthorn member I'm not quite sure what you're getting at.

 

[Boro]

Mick, barring the WC and Euro's that is what happens at International tournaments. How many people were at the Bangladesh v West Indies game at the cricket WC? How many went to Western Somoa v USA at the Rugby WC? How many watch Papua New Gunea v France at a League WC? How many people went to any of the recent AFL Internatinal thingy they held? A lack of sales in the early games of a tournament doesn't mean the tournament is necessarily a failure.

 

[Boro]

To be honest it surprises me how easily offended a number of posters in this thread and bigfooty at large are. From a lot of posting history I've read on this site it'd seem that they'd have no problem displaying the behaviour and bigotry they find so distasteful going the other way.

Welcome to the World of the Internet forum...unfortunately people seem to find it very hard to debate anything without getting personal, people find it impossible to accept someone has a different perspective or point of view and people find it impossible to accept someone else's point of view might actually have some validity. In fact, people think a debate is won when they get an insult in and enough people back it up with a 'that's Gold!"

It's all Gen Y's fault <old bastard slinks away>

 

[.Shotties.]

As a rather proud 13-year Hawthorn member I'm not quite sure what you're getting at.

I'm not sure what your membership status has to do with your inability to contribute or comprehend anything other than derisive comments.

 

[madmug]

Welcome to the World of the Internet forum...unfortunately people seem to find it very hard to debate anything without getting personal, people find it impossible to accept someone has a different perspective or point of view and people find it impossible to accept someone else's point of view might actually have some validity. In fact, people think a debate is won when they get an insult in and enough people back it up with a 'that's Gold!"

It's all Gen Y's fault <old bastard slinks away>

Of course its someone elses fault
Blame Gen 'Y bother' if you like. As a fellow GOB ( Grumpy old 'B'), its our god given right to winge, bitch, grizzle & complain. Also, & most importantly, to blame others for everything.
Its a sort of right of passage for baby boomers

 

[Boro]

Of course its someone elses fault
Blame Gen 'Y bother' if you like. As a fellow GOB ( Grumpy old 'B'), its our god given right to winge, bitch, grizzle & complain. Also, & most importantly, to blame others for everything.
Its a sort of right of passage for baby boomers

I blame baby boomers for everything that goes wrong as well! Bastards haha I'm old but not that old

 

[Munro_Mick]

Mick, barring the WC and Euro's that is what happens at International tournaments. How many people were at the Bangladesh v West Indies game at the cricket WC? How many went to Western Somoa v USA at the Rugby WC? How many watch Papua New Gunea v France at a League WC? How many people went to any of the recent AFL Internatinal thingy they held? A lack of sales in the early games of a tournament doesn't mean the tournament is necessarily a failure.

I didn't suggest a 'failure', however, for looking to it to be some form of panacea for the game in Australia might be weighting it down too heavily with unrealistic expectations.

Will Oman play Saudi Arabia at Morwell and Thailand play Malaysia at Kogarah?........and the Socceroos had better ruddy win through to at least the semi's!!

 

[Still Crowing]

I didn't suggest a 'failure', however, for looking to it to be some form of panacea for the game in Australia might be weighting it down too heavily with unrealistic expectations.

Will Oman play Saudi Arabia at Morwell and Thailand play Malaysia at Kogarah?........and the Socceroos had better ruddy win through to at least the semi's!!

I'm not saying the Asian cup will be some silver bullet that cures the local game of all of its troubles. There is no magic fixcure all to creating a strong vibrant football-supporting culture in this country. It will be decades of slow and steady improvement off and on the pitch to get where the true believers want it to be. I'm saying that the hosting of a major tournament that we are a chance to win, will give many Aussie Sports fans who wouldn't normally tune in for Soccer the chance to cheer on our nation in a very family friendly time slot. That can only be good for the image of the game IMO. As for the games not involving Australia..history suggests people will go and watch top quality soccer if the prices aren't too high.(maybe just to be part of an event) FFA has already alluded to a thought that to get Socceroos tickets, you will have to purchase tickets to see other group games - similar to what the ARU did in 2003RWC for the Wallabies.
Sydney 2000 Olympic football tournament:
Cameroon 3 – 2 Kuwait Brisbane Cricket Ground, Brisbane Att: 26,730;
South Africa 1 – 2 Japan Bruce Stadium, Canberra Att: 17,500;
Nigeria 3 – 3 Honduras Hindmarsh Stadium, Adelaide Att: 13,386;
United States 2 – 2 Japan Hindmarsh Stadium, Adelaide Att: 18,345;
Slovakia 1 – 2 Japan Bruce Stadium, Canberra Att: 15,289;
Czech Republic 1 – 1 Cameroon Brisbane Cricket Ground, Brisbane Att: 23,442

NB: I purposely looked for smaller nations and ones with a smaller chance of having a high immigrant population in Aust.
PS: For those of you not down with the soccer, I caution you against taking our Asian neighbours too lightly. Asian football is the fastest growing region on the planet and the money flowing into the game(not just in West Asia, but across the board), means the standard is improving every year.

 

[Still Crowing]

I didn't suggest a 'failure', however, for looking to it to be some form of panacea for the game in Australia might be weighting it down too heavily with unrealistic expectations.

Will Oman play Saudi Arabia at Morwell and Thailand play Malaysia at Kogarah?........and the Socceroos had better ruddy win through to at least the semi's!!

I know you're being a smart arse, but the venues will be big city venues 4 or 5 from
Bris - Lang Pk
Syd - SFS, ANZ, Parra
Canb - Bruce
Melb - Etihad, AAMI.
Hopefully no need for the AFL to get their panties in a twist over Etihad potentially being one of the venues; the time for the event is January. This will mess with the schedule of the A-League though. Not sure how the FFA will figure that out. Start the season back in September, have a 1.5 month recess starting mid December thru Jan, begin again in Feb...will cause the season to run into the start of the AFL&NRL, potentially causing venue troubles. I guess the LOC will have to figure that out.

 

[harmesy 37]

Thankyou for confirming AFL bigotry is alive and well.

According to wikipedia, "A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially one exhibiting intolerance, and animosity toward those of differing beliefs."

This sounds like you are describing Craig Foster & Les Murray. Read their books if you don't believe me.

Shouldn't we label them as soccer bigots going by this above description?

Or is it ok to be a soccer bigot in your opinion?

I clearly stated in my post if you get enjoyment out of imported sports- whether it be baseball, basketball, soccer, rugby etc- that is great- enjoyment is the key factor. My preference is the Australian game-whether you are Greek-Australian, English-Australian or anything else is immaterial. You are part of the Australian football community if you have a passion for the Australian game.

If you have a passion for rugby for example you are part of the Rugby football community and will have like-minded people interested in that sport in Australia as well as England, France and other countries. Horses for courses.

 

[Dimenhydrinate]

1/3rd the population and we have 4!!!

Question - what made you draw on the UK for your defense? Why not Italy, or Greece, or Spain or Denmark........etc. y'know, all those countries were the only 'football' known to about 98.5% of the population will be soccer.

That's not true. Italy has rugby.

 

[Normy132]

The issue with the Asian Cup won't be the AFL. It will be the Cricket WC being held at roughly the same time in roughly the same venues.

 

[Munro_Mick]

I know you're being a smart arse, but the venues will be big city venues 4 or 5 from
Bris - Lang Pk
Syd - SFS, ANZ, Parra
Canb - Bruce
Melb - Etihad, AAMI.
Hopefully no need for the AFL to get their panties in a twist over Etihad potentially being one of the venues; the time for the event is January. This will mess with the schedule of the A-League though. Not sure how the FFA will figure that out. Start the season back in September, have a 1.5 month recess starting mid December thru Jan, begin again in Feb...will cause the season to run into the start of the AFL&NRL, potentially causing venue troubles. I guess the LOC will have to figure that out.

TBH I'm not trying to be a smartrrrr's.

You gotta not get overly defensive!!

It'll be good for an international soccer tourney held domestically to be during the soccer season and in the main - as it will avoid cricket ovals - it won't cause venue 'stress'.

Australia is a pretty unique beast of a nation.

3 rectangular football codes competing for venues - but, where the biggest venues are for the 4th (and arguably biggest domestic) footy code (plus cricket).

You don't see that matrix anywhere else in the world. It's always an interesting topic of discussion that has x-code implications, but, for use simple folk it's nicest if we can avoid the 'wars' aspect of it. Otherwise, we may as well all just rely on the Daily Telegraph for our news and opinion.

 

[Still Crowing]

The issue with the Asian Cup won't be the AFL. It will be the Cricket WC being held at roughly the same time in roughly the same venues.

Really??? Now that Cricket and soccer are played at the same time I've been paying a lot less attention to cricket(from the look of some of the crowds at ODIs (I went to one at the SCG last summer and couldn't believe CA wanted $80 for a ticket!) I guess I'm not the only one...

but back on topic...
I think I speak for a lot of Soccer fans when I say Sheeeeee-ittt
I was thinking that the Asian Cup would be played during a standard Aussie Summer and the event would be the 'big' story for the summer, but IIRC the only Cricket WC we haven't won in recent times was the most recent one. Given the long history of cricket in this country, The natural reaction will be for the media to focus on the cricket and not the soccer as I'd hoped. This will greatly reduce the impact of hosting the tournament in rallying the general public behind the Socceroos. (unless there is a chance they could be on at slightly different times, I notice that there are no dates promulgated for either event just yet.) Geez Soccer just cant take a trick can it wrt to media attention...re: groundsFFA wouldn't want any oval venues if they know what's good for the game anyways, AAMI in Melbourne should be all thats needed, but I guess that means all the big Socceroos games will be split between Sydney (ANZ) and Brisbane(Suncorp) unless Docklands is available with the cricket being at the MCG. then Melbourne 'might' get the opening game I guess that Sydney is always odds on favourite to get the final with the biggest stadium and the hope that Australia will win through, the Socceroos were runners up in the most recent edition in Qatar.

 

[Still Crowing]

Munro_M, I try not to be defensive but to play a straight bat. I thought you were suggesting that the Asian Cup was a dinky little tournament better suited to small regional venues than one of the biggest soccer tournaments in the world and a chance for Australia to further its links with the fast growing economies of Asia Regardless, if the media decides that the cricket WC is more important, the Asian Cup won't have anywhere the impact on the image of the sport in this country as I was hoping for