Why do people "hate" football (soccer)?

[Munro_Mick]

Munro_M, I try not to be defensive but to play a straight bat. I thought you were suggesting that the Asian Cup was a dinky little tournament better suited to small regional venues than one of the biggest soccer tournaments in the world and a chance for Australia to further its links with the fast growing economies of Asia Regardless, if the media decides that the cricket WC is more important, the Asian Cup won't have anywhere the impact on the image of the sport in this country as I was hoping for

No worries.

re the smaller regional venues - no suggestion that for example Aust vs China or Japan would. And, given that Kogarah and Morwell both hosted HAL matches over the weekend and given the Smith report suggestion of more games in smaller venues....just a natural extension that even the Asian Cup would be 'realistic' or 'cautious' about fixturing low drawing pool games at Homebush or the MCG (were they to use it).

re media etc - alas, no one operates in a sporting vacuum - - and Australia is one of the worlds most diverse sporting landscapes. That we have Melb/Vic which is AFL heartland, and we have Syd/NSW which is NRL heartland - - half the problem for soccer is that it's 'heartland' overlaps too much in NSW with the NRL. Not sure where that leaves the ARU.

 

[Tigerdrive]

Asian Cup is scheduled for 4-26 January, can't find any dates on the Cricket World Cup.

Maybe it will be Feb/March to avoid a clash and also to allow for a Test Summer.

 

[Still Crowing]

No worries.

<snipped>>

re media etc - alas, no one operates in a sporting vacuum - - and Australia is one of the worlds most diverse sporting landscapes. <snipped>>

You are correct, there isn't a month of the year where you think, geez, there really is nothing much on is there. Even the traditional sit on your arse and stare at the box months of December/January are saturated with Cricket and Soccer(local and European). Maybe I'm being unfairly dismissive of cricket, but that sport has really seemed to be doing it tough recently, not just because of the retirement of some genuine Aussie stars, but IMO because they(ICC) are killing the specialness/occasion of games by playing just too much cricket. One ODI series just seems to blur in to the next. I remember as a younger person, after a Summer, in the schoolyard you would talk all about the great games and moments(in between reciting lines from the 12th man!), but these days, I can't seem to recall much memorable action from a recent summer of cricket, unless I actually went to the game. I remember well the first day of the Ashes test in Adelaide because we collapsed to be 3/0 and the Poms were giving it to us., but for the life of me I can't recall what happened in the One Dayers. Maybe soccer will get lucky and the ICC/CA will schedule the Cricket WC for Jan/Feb2015 leaving January pretty much just for the Asian Cup and the usual Test matches? I think given the choice between the Australia Day test and a big Socceroos game, significant attention will still be on the baggy green, and that's fair and to be expected. Nobody expects Soccer to just up and 'take over' the national consciousness/attention of the country like this was England during Euro 96. but it would be nice if a significant amount of people were exposed to international Soccer at a decent hour by having the cup in Australia and this then led to a bit more understanding/respect of the game amongst the general population as we move forward. Perhaps that will be the legacy of the Asian Cup in Australia.

 

[Munro_Mick]

You are correct, there isn't a month of the year where you think, geez, there really is nothing much on is there. Even the traditional sit on your arse and stare at the box months of December/January are saturated with Cricket and Soccer(local and European). Maybe I'm being unfairly dismissive of cricket, but that sport has really seemed to be doing it tough recently, not just because of the retirement of some genuine Aussie stars, but IMO because they(ICC) are killing the specialness/occasion of games by playing just too much cricket. One ODI series just seems to blur in to the next. I remember as a younger person, after a Summer, in the schoolyard you would talk all about the great games and moments(in between reciting lines from the 12th man!), but these days, I can't seem to recall much memorable action from a recent summer of cricket, unless I actually went to the game. I remember well the first day of the Ashes test in Adelaide because we collapsed to be 3/0 and the Poms were giving it to us., but for the life of me I can't recall what happened in the One Dayers. Maybe soccer will get lucky and the ICC/CA will schedule the Cricket WC for Jan/Feb2015 leaving January pretty much just for the Asian Cup and the usual Test matches? I think given the choice between the Australia Day test and a big Socceroos game, significant attention will still be on the baggy green, and that's fair and to be expected. Nobody expects Soccer to just up and 'take over' the national consciousness/attention of the country like this was England during Euro 96. but it would be nice if a significant amount of people were exposed to international Soccer at a decent hour by having the cup in Australia and this then led to a bit more understanding/respect of the game amongst the general population as we move forward. Perhaps that will be the legacy of the Asian Cup in Australia.

The Melb and Syd Test matches benefit greatly from the holiday period - the MCG test would scratch for crowds otherwise - as it's just such a big ask to go and sit in a concrete stadium for 7 odd hours in the heat of summer........I'd go watch the Vics in Shield games if they played at Punt Rd or Junction Oval (grass/trees), but, at the 'G, .......where's the nearest bar!!!!

Dec/Jan, you were a bit harsh not including the Aust Open tennis!!!

The Asian Cup for NON-soccer people might be similar to for example Hockey in the Olympics.....suddenly we're all experts and care greatly when the event is on.....and then after that, back to normal.

And this is the thing I still ponder about. The TOP level of a sport in many respects undermines the levels below. So, the more prominent the Socceroos in Australia, the more they actually undermine the A-League. Because, higher level representation draws players away from domestic leagues. In Australia, the AFL doesn't have that 'problem/luxury' (depending how you see it). In the US the NFL doesn't, and in Ireland the GAA doesn't.

This is where something like MVFC vs Galaxy, as much of a side show it was (DURING the HAL season), it does at least highlight an HAL side (or, it's bench strength!!). As dismissive at Greg Baum was in his article, and I tend to agree in large parts, and so too did a few MVFC fan callers to SEN; I can't help but feel that it was of more value than say the Socceroos playing a Man Utd reserves side a few years back. (very hard in either case to justify the expense for such 'events'.......entertainment? sports? star power?)

Cricket is interesting. Many of the people of my era yearn for a strong West Indies, as I grew up late 70s/early 80s and the Windies were just the bees knees. However, with respect to paying attention - that's come and gone and come and gone. But, I made sure to try to appreciate Warney before he finished up,.....and now this year in the Big Bash I get a chance to take my kids to see Warney and THAT, I rate far, far higher than Beckham. Actually, I dragged (I didn't really have to drag) the kids to the EJ Whitten game this year because Wayne Carey got himself out on the paddock.

And both those events - cheap tickets, good value, none of this grovelling to some overseas has been passing through town.

btw - will enjoy cricket a bit more when the selectors finally make the right call (drop him) on Phil Hughes!!!!!

 

[Boro]

http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/les-murray/blog/1084637/Becks-and-our-adolescence

Les's take on the Baum article

 

[Boro]

re media etc - alas, no one operates in a sporting vacuum - - and Australia is one of the worlds most diverse sporting landscapes. That we have Melb/Vic which is AFL heartland, and we have Syd/NSW which is NRL heartland - - half the problem for soccer is that it's 'heartland' overlaps too much in NSW with the NRL. Not sure where that leaves the ARU.

Qld is the heartland for RL...they care about it more and are much more fanatical about it than those soft Sydney types

 

[Munro_Mick]

Qld is the heartland for RL...they care about it more and are much more fanatical about it than those soft Sydney types

You might be right there.

The dilemma then,

The AFL fortress of Melbourne is well serviced by teams.
The NRL fortress of Brisbane is under serviced by NRL teams, and is to vulnerable to sustained attack from AFL/HAL/ARU.
The NRL fortress of Sydney isn't nearly as exclusive as the Melb AFL fortress. Sydney is ARU and HAL 'home turf' too.
The AFL fortresses of Adelaide and Perth are pretty solid, if only that Port Power might well've been a mistake??

anyway, a bit of an aside - but I can't believe the NRL are fussed about the prospect of a team in Perth (stuff up timeslots, no major benefit until 2 teams there with a game a week locally plus one tv'd in and a couple of derby's) rather than digging deeper into the Bris/SE QLD 'friendly' market.

There's a difference b/w consolidation and expansion, but, sometimes you need to consolidate before contemplating expansion.

 

[Hoops]

My question is why do people hate football (aussie rules)?
Of all the replys in this article "The world's dumbest sports" football has no less than 20 negative responses, whereas soccer barely rates a mention.

The perception that soccer is hard done by, or invokes some unprecedented hate for their sport that other sports don't have to endure is simply not true.

toughen-up princesses

 

[Munro_Mick]

http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/les-murray/blog/1084637/Becks-and-our-adolescence

Les's take on the Baum article

Les has a problem in that he fails to recognise the right of the 'critic' to offer a critique.

THe problem about the likes of Les is a very thin skin.

Ironically, a few of the comments are supportive of Baum,

Dinoweb
Funny, I read the article and can't find too much to disagree with.



some fence sitting, and then there's the often elitist soccer zealots approach characterised here :

MGBadrock
Mr. Murray has hit the nail on the head here. What has Baum ever done? He writes on football (soccer), AFL and cricket. What has he ever done to warrant an opinion so high and mighty? His articles on AFL I have not read much of but his articles on cricket and football are sheer stupidity. His knowledge of these sports is borderline nothing so I do not understand why he continues to write. His dead give away is the fact that if you actually read his article on Galaxy v Victory there is barely anything mentioned of the game itself, the terms he does use look as if it has been taken out of a football dictionary and put in as a vain attempt to gain some credibility. Put a sock in it Baum, no one values your opinion



since when have we fussed too much about the qualifications of a writer? We understand that there are these fantastic entities known as 'journalists' who often have to work outside of their comfort zone - but, bring journalistic credibility to the table......hmm, unlike Les! But, then, what qualifications do we need to form an opinion? or to look at something perhaps a little more 'left field' than others do?

Les Murray perhaps spends too much time weighted down by some imagined chip on his shoulder.

 

[Still Crowing]

MunroMick, In my experience you're making the mistake of assuming things happen in the rest of the country the way they happen in Victoria. Melbourne goes a little batty for the Tennis, as it would, its hosting the damned thing, but having lived in Melbourne, Sydney, Perth and Adelaide, In my experience, unless an Aussie is doing very well like Lley-Lley or "Our Kym(Clijsters)" the rest of Australia don't receive the same level of coverage of the event unless they have only Ch7 come Summer time. Oh its reported of course, but its not Manic like it seemed to be in Melbourne. I dare say If The Asian Cup Final is held on Australia Day in Sydney - and the Socceroos have won through against arch (soccer) Enemy Japan for example, the WA/SA/QLD/NSW papers will cover a bit of the Australia Day test match and a bit of tennis, but will likely get caught up in the nationalistic fervour of the Soccer coupled with the nationalistic nature of Oz Day in general, especially if once again an Aussie fails to make meaningful inroads into the AustOpen Tennis.

 

[Boro]

My question is why do people hate football (aussie rules)?
Of all the replys in this article "The world's dumbest sports" football has no less than 20 negative responses, whereas soccer barely rates a mention.

The perception that soccer is hard done by, or invokes some unprecedented hate for their sport that other sports don't have to endure is simply not true.

toughen-up princesses

People hate AFL because it's a game that you have to be bought up on to enjoy...it's like cricket, baseball, NFL, hurling, Gaelic etc in that way...If you take the time to understand what 40 guys running after a funny shaped ball, on a funny shaped field with few obvious rules you'll eventually love it but for the casual observer it just looks like a pile of ****...It's just not taken that seriously outside Australia, but that is part of the charm isn't it?

 

[phantom13]

People hate AFL because it's a game that you have to be bought up on to enjoy...it's like cricket, baseball, NFL, hurling, Gaelic etc in that way...If you take the time to understand what 40 guys running after a funny shaped ball, on a funny shaped field with few obvious rules you'll eventually love it but for the casual observer it just looks like a pile of ****...It's just not taken that seriously outside Australia, but that is part of the charm isn't it?

I wasn't raised on NFL, Gaelic or Baseball but i got into them when i got older, i understand your point, it takes some dedication to get to understand the rules and intricacies of the game but so does Soccer, esepcially understanding that watching different countries domestic competitions will mean different gameplay styles (Italy being defensive etc)

 

[Munro_Mick]

People hate AFL because it's a game that you have to be bought up on to enjoy...it's like cricket, baseball, NFL, hurling, Gaelic etc in that way...If you take the time to understand what 40 guys running after a funny shaped ball, on a funny shaped field with few obvious rules you'll eventually love it but for the casual observer it just looks like a pile of ****...It's just not taken that seriously outside Australia, but that is part of the charm isn't it?

This is a tired old line used to put down Australian Football and discourage expansion.

Having spoken to many people involved with footy now growing quite nicely in the Pacific region - and in many cases were exposure to the game is very limited - there are kids and adults getting into because of such structural reasons as the freedom (no offside), the skills mix (feet, hands), the athleticism (more running) and the enjoyment (more scoring can actually engage people a bit more than fighting out dour defensive games).

What I suggest is not a best or worst of games - but, it's cool seeing that as an alternative, that Aust Football really IS an alternative to the 'off-side' school of games.

For the level of seriousness - I'd suggest that some of the MOST passionate and serious players are those who each 3 years find the funds and time to travel to Australia for a 2 week tournament (the International Cup) to play the game that they have fallen in love with. No payment - the embodiement of amateur sport. And, as the standard continues to improve, and the number of nations increases ...... perhaps, just perhaps - (and I figure the internet age helps tremendously to help illustrate what the game is about) - - you DON'T actually have to have been brought up on the game - - BUT, that you were NOT brought up with the anti-Vic/Melb attitude of many north of the Murrumbidgee (that was kinda understandable back in the 1800s colonial era but really, should've been grown out of some time ago by now!!).

 

[Boro]

This is a tired old line used to put down Australian Football and discourage expansion.

You may think it's a tired line, but it is 100% true. As I said, if you take the time to understand it you'll like it, because it's a great game, which is why a handful of people around the globe get into it. The fact is though the majority of people look at AFL and think WTF!...

 

[Boro]

I wasn't raised on NFL, Gaelic or Baseball but i got into them when i got older, i understand your point, it takes some dedication to get to understand the rules and intricacies of the game but so does Soccer, esepcially understanding that watching different countries domestic competitions will mean different gameplay styles (Italy being defensive etc)

Yeah soccer does as well, but it has the advantage of being ingrained into society in most places around the globe, so people like it because that's what they are bought up on. The same goes for AFL in Melbourne, you'll find it very difficult not to like it because it is part of the culture.

Personally I can't stand RU and struggle with RL despite having a family member involved in a side...but up in Qld it is ingrained into the school system, the media and the public psyche..nothing people can do will stop RL being the number 1 sport up here because it is what everyone has been bought up on...and just as Mick loves his AFL over anything else so to do the Ruggers and League fans up here, and so to do the soccer fans in most parts of the World.

A percentage of people will take time to enjoy a number of sports and a few may even come to like them more than their original game, but not a big percentage bother even giving a foreign sport the time of day, and some for unknown reasons feel the need to villify certain codes instead of just ignoring them and as a result we had the question in the OP

 

[phantom13]

Yeah soccer does as well, but it has the advantage of being ingrained into society in most places around the globe, so people like it because that's what they are bought up on. The same goes for AFL in Melbourne, you'll find it very difficult not to like it because it is part of the culture.

Personally I can't stand RU and struggle with RL despite having a family member involved in a side...but up in Qld it is ingrained into the school system, the media and the public psyche..nothing people can do will stop RL being the number 1 sport up here because it is what everyone has been bought up on...and just as Mick loves his AFL over anything else so to do the Ruggers and League fans up here, and so to do the soccer fans in most parts of the World.

A percentage of people will take time to enjoy a number of sports and a few may even come to like them more than their original game, but not a big percentage bother even giving a foreign sport the time of day, and some for unknown reasons feel the need to villify certain codes instead of just ignoring them and as a result we had the question in the OP

Yeh, you make a very valid point, an it interesting to think of the culture of sport in Victoria versus basically anywhere else in the world. It's odd because I really consider myself a sports fan and think I could sit down to watch just about anything (I watched curling when the winter Olympics were on for two hours and loved it) and I could watch soccer if there was nothing else on, it just really doesn't blow my skirt up, I certainly don't hate it, but it does get alot of hate for some odd reason.

 

[Munro_Mick]

http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/les-murray/blog/1084637/Becks-and-our-adolescence

Les's take on the Baum article

Noticed Michael Cockerill's article today. Will Les rebuke him too??

Or,

is Les mature enough to discuss a topic without personal attacks on the messengers??

 

[Munro_Mick]

You may think it's a tired line, but it is 100% true. As I said, if you take the time to understand it you'll like it, because it's a great game, which is why a handful of people around the globe get into it. The fact is though the majority of people look at AFL and think WTF!...

Point me where in the world that people unfamiliar with Rugby Union or American Football wouldn't on first viewings look at and think WTF!

To gather a group of lads and ask them to play a game in the park not knowing the game intrinsically - I reckon so much depends upon what reference points you can utilise.

For Aust Footy, you DON'T say it's a bit like Rugby. It isn't.

It's more like a combination of basketball and soccer. Explain that to the kids - - and you're half way there to them being able to go and 'just play'.

the internet era over the last 10 or so years has seen a very big growth in the game despite the AFL not 'sponsoring' it.

Keep mindful that back in the 1980s that the VFL/AFL got reasonable coverage on ESPN but there was an inability to grow the game in the US. Since then, the USAFL has grown quite nicely - it's now a case that people who come across the game, like it, can do a google and get onto the national body, or the local club. We've seen examples of guys who have backpacked in Australia, or studied in Sydney or just seen the game on tele and have been able to establish clubs in the US.
In Europe, it used to be just Denmark and the Great Britain. Now - far more widespread, and both a Euro 9s annual tournament and a full 18 a-side championship.
The most common lament of participants is that they didn't have access to the game when they were younger.

It won't take over the world, but, hopefully more and more people can get exposed to the option to play the game - because it is distinctly different. And for me, I love that the 'Mecca' of the game is Melbourne.

 

[Zidane98]

I think footy's big problem is that it doesn't really work as a small sided game; football can be played pretty much by anyone, anywhere at any time and not always with a football!!! There isn't a sport in the world more suited to masses of under priveleged kids able to just play a casual game in the street or a back alley way. At school the popular game at lunch time was football, with a bit of kick to kick footy in. I cannot remember anyone engaging in an actual game of footy at lunchtime though. It was all kick to kick stuff.

 

[madmug]

Yeh, you make a very valid point, an it interesting to think of the culture of sport in Victoria versus basically anywhere else in the world. It's odd because I really consider myself a sports fan and think I could sit down to watch just about anything (I watched curling when the winter Olympics were on for two hours and loved it) and I could watch soccer if there was nothing else on, it just really doesn't blow my skirt up, I certainly don't hate it, but it does get alot of hate for some odd reason.

The cultural attachment to Aussie rules is felt through WA, SA, Vic, NT & Tas. With patches in Qld, southern NSW & ACT more than in NSW.
The dislike of soccer is more to do with the historic tribalism that was attached to the game in other parts of the world. That tribalism was brought to this country & wasnt appreciated by the majority of locals. Trying to reinvent the game via the Aleague is laudable. That will take time. Those new clubs are about 5 minutes old where as many Aussie rules clubs go back over 100 years.
As said, the other 'dislike' comes from the arrogant desire to call soccer 'football'. That alone causes a problem. Also listening to soccer commentators (mainly Soccer Broadcasting Service)who carry on about the beautiful world game. Ignoring the fact that their is so much corruption in the game & not all games are the slightest bit beautiful. Flagrant diving, cheating, poor tackles, elbows raised, fake rolling on the ground then jump up like nothing happened, also trying to bully referees by surrounding them when a decision is made, all is ignored. Like all games it has good & bad points. & all games have a cultural basis.
Soccer wont take over the nation. At best it will be one of the choices people make to support or even watch it. Some will support a number of sports, other will support none at all.
The Smith report sends a timely message about the fragile position of the Aleague. Whose fault is that? Too many idiot millionaires buying in & not enough community inclusion in some teams perhaps? Or is it an AFL conspiracy against soccer

 

[Munro_Mick]

I think footy's big problem is that it doesn't really work as a small sided game; football can be played pretty much by anyone, anywhere at any time and not always with a football!!! There isn't a sport in the world more suited to masses of under priveleged kids able to just play a casual game in the street or a back alley way. At school the popular game at lunch time was football, with a bit of kick to kick footy in. I cannot remember anyone engaging in an actual game of footy at lunchtime though. It was all kick to kick stuff.

What you've made is a pretty good comment.

The problem for sometime has been the 'traditionalism' within Victoria (and outside but in established footy regions/states). The notion of what defines the game? what are the hard and fast requirements? is it 18 a side (the old VFA was 16 aside with no wings, and some remote and smaller country leagues have variations as well). Must the game be played on an oval?

Reality is, that the ingenuity overseas has fed back into Australia now - and that's nice to see - - the game is Australian but the 'community' is now broadened. Overseas, with a lack of suitable 'ovals', the game is often played on a rugby/soccer size pitch. Obvious modifications are required.

Thus, 9s footy evolved. It also served the purpose that in some places, the 'local league' would be effectively the main city/regional club broken up into 9s 'teams' who play a local season, but, then those players pool together for the 'premier league'.

9s footy has a fair history of regular tournaments. The annual Bali 9s has been growing, and in Europe the Euro's is a 9s tournament, now augmented by a full European 18 aside championship.

Now, the AFL has adopted 9s (having fumbled a bit with 'recfooty'). And, the reality is that a lot of lessons that enthusiastic amateurs and volunteers have learned in Europe, North America and other regions can transfer pretty well into the AFL's expansion/consolidation in NSW and QLD.

 

[Zidane98]

Don't buy any of your rubbish arguments at all. There are AFL footballers who dive & cheat but you conveniently forget to mention that. You have teams that lose games on purpose to get better players which is a form of corruption but you fail to mention that.

You also fail to understand that football has millions of players. The actual percentage of players who engage in unsavory tactics compared to the total amount of players playing is virtually insignificant. You just like to focus on the negatives.

 

[Zidane98]

What you've made is a pretty good comment.

The problem for sometime has been the 'traditionalism' within Victoria (and outside but in established footy regions/states). The notion of what defines the game? what are the hard and fast requirements? is it 18 a side (the old VFA was 16 aside with no wings, and some remote and smaller country leagues have variations as well). Must the game be played on an oval?

Reality is, that the ingenuity overseas has fed back into Australia now - and that's nice to see - - the game is Australian but the 'community' is now broadened. Overseas, with a lack of suitable 'ovals', the game is often played on a rugby/soccer size pitch. Obvious modifications are required.

Thus, 9s footy evolved. It also served the purpose that in some places, the 'local league' would be effectively the main city/regional club broken up into 9s 'teams' who play a local season, but, then those players pool together for the 'premier league'.

9s footy has a fair history of regular tournaments. The annual Bali 9s has been growing, and in Europe the Euro's is a 9s tournament, now augmented by a full European 18 aside championship.

Now, the AFL has adopted 9s (having fumbled a bit with 'recfooty'). And, the reality is that a lot of lessons that enthusiastic amateurs and volunteers have learned in Europe, North America and other regions can transfer pretty well into the AFL's expansion/consolidation in NSW and QLD.

Interesting concept you mention, Bali Nines. Hadn't heard of it myself. A step in the right direction, but what you really need is a game that lends itself to disadvantaged kids in back streets / alleyways / parks. I can't see how that will ever work with footy.

 

[madmug]

I think footy's big problem is that it doesn't really work as a small sided game; football can be played pretty much by anyone, anywhere at any time and not always with a football!!! There isn't a sport in the world more suited to masses of under priveleged kids able to just play a casual game in the street or a back alley way. At school the popular game at lunch time was football, with a bit of kick to kick footy in. I cannot remember anyone engaging in an actual game of footy at lunchtime though. It was all kick to kick stuff.

Footy, Football? I find this a little harder to read that it should be.
As far as playing games at school or home or in streets, most games have a cut down version that kids play.
Cricket with a ball & stick in India, We sometimes played with a plastic ball & stump in the backyard, & kept scores in a proper score book! We did also use tennis balls & the odd hard ball until we broke a window next door.
Kids play 1 on 1, or 2 on 2 etc with a basketball in suburban USA. We played pretend TFL matches with 6 or 8 in our local park, we used jumpers & bags instead of goals & point posts.
All it takes is imagination, kids have imagination & try to copy their heroes . Soccer doesnt have a mortgage on that.

 

[Munro_Mick]

Interesting concept you mention, Bali Nines. Hadn't heard of it myself. A step in the right direction, but what you really need is a game that lends itself to disadvantaged kids in back streets / alleyways / parks. I can't see how that will ever work with footy.

presently it's doing just that in the Solomon Islands.

and doing nicely with a couple of very enthused Villages in Vanuatu,

(NB. and in both locations, they now have access to a full size oval as well after 'slumming it' initially.)

Playing in alley ways - ah well, depends what you want to achieve. Kids are inventive anyway and find ways to play some variation.

For me - for young kids, the thing I hate is the "Don't" aspect of some of the other codes. The "Don't" requirements of off-side, the "Don't" use your hands of soccer...........and after all, in an alley way or whereever - Aust Footy is the only footy code that doesn't need some form of x-bar for the goals.

You'd probably be surprised just how good a muck around can be had in different locations/conditions.