Why do People presume that Carlton is 2-3 years ahead of Essendon?

[Godzke]

The bombers making the 8 in 2009 was a joke and wouldn't have happened in most years of football.... They won 10 games and had a draw which is not even half.. They lost more than they won.. It has usually taken between 11-13 games for any team to even make the 8.. 2009 was an exception... How the AFL can reward a team with finals who gets beaten more than they win shows its a joke.. Thats why Carlton are ahead.. We won more games than we lost...

You might be ahead ... but by 2-3 years? No. Just no.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

I don't see him playing a lot of time in the forward line, his work around the ground is too important. He virtually gives us an extra midfielder. As you say his value up forward would be when pinch hitting, although there may well be the occasional game when he plays mostly at FF & with his smarts could kick 4-5 goals in a match.

Obviously everyone remembers more about their own team. I watch most games and from memory I seem to remember him spending a quarter or more forward on a few occasions, and thinking he didn't look as comfortable leading as he does floating in/pinch hitting.

Maybe it was just certain opponents beating him, or youth/inexperience, but I think it would be in Carlton's best interests to play him in the ruck and find other avenues to goal, as I know there has been talk of him playing permanent CHF.

 

[Kong]

Henderson unfortunately was kept out of the Lions' forward line by a couple of blokes by the name of Brown & Bradshaw. You might have heard of them. He was recruited as a forward & that is where he will play his football next season.

My statement was in response to a Carlton poster claiming Henderson had shown more (in regards to playing forward) than Neagle and Gumbleton.

What you have said does not change this being incorrect, whatsoever.

As for Kreuzer, he also kicked 3 goals against the Bulldogs, whilst playing in the ruck & on 5 occasions has kicked 2 goals, also while playing in the ruck. Could be pretty handy if he had a full game in the forward line. His 3 goals against Port of course coming in one quarter (the last), on a filthy Adelaide night & was a match-winning performance.

Kreuzer will be a player, no doubt. However again, he has shown less than Neagle as a forward.

If I had to compare him as a forward, it'd be to Hille or Laycock. All three are starting ruckman with the capacity to play forward and snag a few in a short amount of time.

I expect Laycock will play forward next year, while we're on the subject. Ryder, Hille and Bellchambers are more than adequate in the ruck.

 

[rdhopkins2]

Carlton could well be in a heap of trouble in '10. Big ask on their kids to step up and for Judd to carry them. I'm expecting a very tough year, especially with a light forwardline.

 

[Bluedude]

Without reading the entire thread, I think Carlton has done
better off season (with the exception of Fevola)
Essendon lost a heap of players, seasons end. Really there was not
much seperating the Blues and the Bombers this year in my eyes.
Maybe because Essendon appear to have lost more players,
that people perceive Carlton is now ahead ?

Wasnt it a win a piece this year, or do we only beat Essendon
when we are the bottom side and they are top 8 ??
If we put our passions aside, really the two teams achieved
the same this year. (Prior to the culling and mutiny)

I personally dont think the Blues are 3 years ahead.

 

[carmi99]

Without reading the entire thread, I think Carlton has done
better off season (with the exception of Fevola)
Essendon lost a heap of players, seasons end. Really there was not
much seperating the Blues and the Bombers this year in my eyes.
Maybe because Essendon appear to have lost more players,
that people perceive Carlton is now ahead ?

Wasnt it a win a piece this year, or do we only beat Essendon
when we are the bottom side and they are top 8 ??
If we put our passions aside, really the two teams achieved
the same this year. (Prior to the culling and mutiny)

I personally dont think the Blues are 3 years ahead.

Nah man, Carlton hasn't beaten Essendon for over 3 years.

And let me get this straight. You are saying nothing seperated the two teams until the off-season?

Essendon lost Lovett and McPhee and gained Williams.

Carlton lost Fevola and gained Henderson.

Am i missing something?

If anything the Essendon has just closed the gap considerably with the blues losing their second best player and only real goal kicker of any note.

 

[drybones]

Without reading the entire thread, I think Carlton has done
better off season (with the exception of Fevola)
Essendon lost a heap of players, seasons end. Really there was not
much seperating the Blues and the Bombers this year in my eyes.
Maybe because Essendon appear to have lost more players,
that people perceive Carlton is now ahead ?

Wasnt it a win a piece this year, or do we only beat Essendon
when we are the bottom side and they are top 8 ??
If we put our passions aside, really the two teams achieved
the same this year. (Prior to the culling and mutiny)

I personally dont think the Blues are 3 years ahead.

HAHAHAHAHA do you actually remember the last time Carlton defeated Essendon??
For those wondering it was April 14 2007, by 3 points.
I cannot take you seriously if you think you beat us once this year.. it's not that hard to remember is it? Personally I like the 4 point victory better than the 69 point one.. because in the closer game you kicked 2.7 in the final term.. fail
The race to 17 is well and truely on. I love the fact that both clubs are rising again at the same time and there will hopefully be plenty of classic finals played in the coming few years just like back in the 90s!! It's good for the game.. who cares about Collingwood, this is the real deal rivalry because 16-16 says it all.

 

[forwardflanker]

Essendon supporters on this forums overrate their list more than any other club imo. To put it as simply as possible - Carlton will make finals this year, next year and in years to come. This is not the case for Essendon because they are lacking in quality all over the park, and particularly form their youngsters.

The OP, an Essendon supporter asks why Essendon are viewed as behind Carlton yet when confronted with the truth the deluded Essendon supporters on this board start crying.

Enjoy the next few years Essendon supporters.

 

[Johnny619]

Essendon supporters on this forums overrate their list more than any other club imo. To put it as simply as possible - Carlton will make finals this year, next year and in years to come. This is not the case for Essendon because they are lacking in quality all over the park, and particularly form their youngsters.

The OP, an Essendon supporter asks why Essendon are viewed as behind Carlton yet when confronted with the truth the deluded Essendon supporters on this board start crying.

Enjoy the next few years Essendon supporters.

Thanks! We sure will be enjoying the coming years. It is a very exciting time for us at Essendon.

 

[blues4flag]

Nah man, Carlton hasn't beaten Essendon for over 3 years.

And let me get this straight. You are saying nothing seperated the two teams until the off-season?

Essendon lost Lovett and McPhee and gained Williams.

Carlton lost Fevola and gained Henderson.

Am i missing something?

If anything the Essendon has just closed the gap considerably with the blues losing their second best player and only real goal kicker of any note.

We also gained Mclean. Our midfield has just gone up another notch or two above yours.

If WC and Geelong can win a premiership with the likes of Lynch, Hunter and Hawkins up forward, I'm not minding Henderson/Waite/Kreuzer myself. Though I'm predicting the athletic behemoth Hampson might just make FF his own.

 

[jonoman89]

Prove it.

PA is lower. % much much higher. We won more games.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/fts_team_rankings?type=OA&year=2009&sby=2 - we concede far less disposals than you

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/fts_team_rankings?type=OA&year=2009&sby=3 - we concede around 10 less marks per game

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/fts_team_rankings?type=OA&year=2009&sby=3 - we concede less points on average

I can't find total inside 50s or conversion of inside 50s on that site, but i'd be happy for you to prove your defence is better than ours.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

All of those stats are relative to other things. The best stats are impossible to find. The stat to see how effective defenses are would be inside 50's conceded to rebound 50 ratio. Alas I can't find the stats for inside 50's conceded.

I could go through and add them up individually game by game but I cbf.

 

[coke_zero]

We also gained Mclean. Our midfield has just gone up another notch or two above yours.

If WC and Geelong can win a premiership with the likes of Lynch, Hunter and Hawkins up forward, I'm not minding Henderson/Waite/Kreuzer myself. Though I'm predicting the athletic behemoth Hampson might just make FF his own.

but those premiership teams had very good back lines.

 

[The Donners]

Essendon supporters on this forums overrate their list more than any other club imo. To put it as simply as possible - Carlton will make finals this year, next year and in years to come. This is not the case for Essendon because they are lacking in quality all over the park, and particularly form their youngsters.

The OP, an Essendon supporter asks why Essendon are viewed as behind Carlton yet when confronted with the truth the deluded Essendon supporters on this board start crying.

Enjoy the next few years Essendon supporters.

Essendon's youngsters are marginally behind Adelaide's. That's without getting 2 of our past 3 number 1 draft picks out on the field.

As for Essendon supporters on this forum overrating our list, it seems that way because every other supporter underrates it. We were pegged for bottom 4 by the majority at the beginning of '09, we finished 8th proving we were better than 8 other teams.

The next few years will see a ruck combination of Hille and Ryder, a forward line of Gumbleton, Williams, Hurley/Ryder, Monfries, Davey and Jetta (watch out for Jetta in '10! ), a backline of Fletcher, Pears, Hurley/Ryder, H Slattery, Dempsey and Daniher, a midfield of Watson, Stanton, Prismall, Zaharakis and Winderlich and a great amount of depth, Lonergan, Hocking, Reimers, Hooker, Welsh, Myers, Atkinson, Dyson, Houli and Lovett-Murray.

That's way more depth than Collingwood, imagine the Pies losing both your ruckman and Swan for a game. Things would get mighty ugly!

 

[Slattery_20]

Essendon supporters on this forums overrate their list more than any other club imo. To put it as simply as possible - Carlton will make finals this year, next year and in years to come. This is not the case for Essendon because they are lacking in quality all over the park, and particularly form their youngsters.

The OP, an Essendon supporter asks why Essendon are viewed as behind Carlton yet when confronted with the truth the deluded Essendon supporters on this board start crying.

Enjoy the next few years Essendon supporters.

You can say the top end of our list is over-rated all you want... but there's genuine quality in 5 or 6 of our younger blokes and probably another 3 or 4 who will probably be OK senior players.
You all know it - any club would love Ryder or Zaka etc.
What we really need is contribution from our senior guys and our youngsters at the same time. Half of these good kids drpped right off towards the end, and Welsh McVeigh Hille were giving us nothing.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Hurley, Gumbleton, Pears, Ryder.

That is kpp talent.

Defender, unproven, defender, ruckman.

Some serious quality there but no proven key forwards. Maybe in the future but I doubt they'll make much headway next year.

 

[micool]

i expect the 8 to stay the same next yeah except the hawks will come in and either essendon or carlton will fall out.

my feeling is it is 50/50 atm because essendon have such a hard draw and carlton lost 100 goal forward.

 

[Slattery_20]

Defender, unproven, defender, ruckman.

Some serious quality there but no proven key forwards. Maybe in the future but I doubt they'll make much headway next year.

Definitely unproven, but our forward line of 09 is hardly a lot to improve on tbh. Williams + one or two of the other talls could easily surpass the 09 models of Lloyd/Lucas. Heck even if it's only Neagle, he'd kick 30 or 35 if he plays 20 games, no problems.

 

[kreuze_missile]

Didn't read thread but I assume it went something like..

1. One-eyed Bombers supporter posts biased thread
2. One-eyed Carlton supporter dismisses post, biased reply
3. One-eyed Bombers supporter points out Carlton's recent record against Essendon
4. Neutral supporter gives 2cents, boast about own club
5. Repeat steps 2 to 5

I also assume there has been lots of talking up Pears, Hurley, Gumbleton and Neagle

 

[Slattery_20]

Didn't read thread but I assume it went something like..

1. One-eyed Bombers supporter posts biased thread
2. One-eyed Carlton supporter dismisses post, biased reply
3. One-eyed Bombers supporter points out Carlton's recent record against Essendon
4. Neutral supporter gives 2cents, boast about own club
5. Repeat steps 2 to 5

I also assume there has been lots of talking up Pears, Hurley, Gumbleton and Neagle

Would you expect anything else?

 

[kreuze_missile]

Would you expect anything else?

No. Every supporter over-rates their own lists and bases their opinions on potential instead of actual playing ability. This is hardly something which is exclusive to a Carlton/Essendon rivalry.

The only place I can see Carlton being clearly ahead of Essendon is in the midfield, and perhaps having a bit more depth in their ruck stocks. Everywhere else the sides are identical, both have young developing backlines and unproven forwards.

 

[Smyth94]

Defender, unproven, defender, ruckman.

Some serious quality there but no proven key forwards. Maybe in the future but I doubt they'll make much headway next year.

Sorry Timmy, but you're on drugs if you think Hurley is just a defender

 

[bombermick]

Despite their terrible record against us, Carlton clearly have the better midfield and it will be improved next year. Judd, Murphy and Gibbs plus McLean is very handy at worst. Essendon's mid of Jobe plus his bunch of merry men doesn't come close. Who would have thought 3 years ago but that Jobe would clearly be Essendon's best mid? The backline is handy without being great, but the forward line is going to be terrible. I just can't see the team managing to make enough of the f50 entries. Teams like Geelong and West Coast have won flags without a marquee forward, but Mooney and Lynch are 10x better than any key forward that Carlton possesses.

On the other hand, Essendon's strength is clearly its KPP stocks. There is Pears, who is one of the best young full-backs in the game. Ryder, who will form a very good ruck partnership and Gumbleton who hopefully can get on the park. That's not mentioning Hurley, who fingers crossed will become the best young KPP in the land.

I think the eight will probably stay the same as last year, with Hawthorn coming in. West Coast will finish 9-10 and both Carlton and Essendon will struggle, Carlton because of the loss of Fev and Essendon with a tough draw. Essendon WILL finish ahead of Carlton.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Sorry Timmy, but you're on drugs if you think Hurley is just a defender

Maybe but he's a second year player and was recruited to play defence. While he will play forward at times next year and is clearly a star of the future it will be a big ask to get him to hold down CHF all season in his second year of league footy. He'll play both ends but defence is an easier place to learn the trade.

 

[captain peanut]

neither will make the 8 in 2010

essendon will be bottom 5, blues on the fringe of the 8

calrton will however at least start to develop a forward line not reliant on 1 player which will hold them in good stead from 2011 and beyond as we know they have a sensational midfield. once kreuzer develops as a key forward and warnock as a ruckman i am in fact very concerned at how good the blues might become