Society/Culture Why I blame Islam for the fact it's raining today.... part 2

[Chief]

Reminder:

This isn't the Israel/Hamas thread.

Go to the Israel/Hamas thread if you want to talk about that.

Mid East - Israel declare war after Hamas attack II

Part I: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/israel-declare-war-after-hamas-attack.1371828/page-47#post-81443295 Thread Rules: Alright. I recognise that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have...

www.bigfooty.com

Thanks.

 

[Gralin]

Not sure how you come to that conclusion, but not surprising coming from you.

I did state in the post you replied, I don't know what this dog whistling is, now I know it's a nothing burger

Who cares, looks like dog whistling is a nothing burger.

Right so you don't know what it is but given your incorrect analysis of one example you are not confident it is a nothing burger

So what is it? What's the definition of this nothing burger?

Didn't need to, if you write an opinionated article making hyperbolic claims, well that's all you need to know.

I seem to remember you saying that we should listen to a bad faith actor for the 0.1% of their argument that could be important recently
in fact you spent pages arguing that we should not dismiss what is being said

it seems that you don't extend that to written opinion from journalists that you don't like

But here you go,

'Almost as one, and led by their supposedly elite political journalists, media companies have gathered, chanting, around a straw man called “Muslim Sectarianism” and proceeded to denounce it as an imminent threat to civilization'

Yeah not hyperbole

No not hyperbole its a common refrain

The arguments put forth were that Payman's religion was the issue here, that she crossed the floor because she was Muslim, Wayne Swan made a press release about how that would weaken labor for the far right and left extremists

When they are suggesting the reason she crossed the floor is because she is Muslim, and that it threatens our democracy, they are saying exactly what you claim to be hyperbole

btw, have you got that definition of dog whistling yet, it comes in handy here if you actually read the articles I am sure you are about to dismiss

'The young WA senator seems to have unleashed something ugly lurking deep in the unconscious minds of both the Labor Party and the media.'

^Quick, run to the hills!!!

You don't think anything ugly happened this week with the labor backgrounding and media focus not on Payman's position but her ethnicity and religion being the reason for her position?

'There was the groundless claim from the ABC that Payman was a religious zealot allowing herself to be “guided by God”, later quietly downplayed in amendments to the article. Then the insistence from the prime minister that Payman was engaged in sectarian politics that will undermine multiculturalism and end up hurting minority groups — a statement that in its media form sounded more like a threat than a warning.'

^Only a *n moron would believe this.

Here's the thing Carrie, this website and social media is full of people who believe this, they regurgitate it, they tell their friends its true

they talk about it at the pub

just because you don't think anyone would believe it doesn't make it the case, it also doesn't make it not dangerous

“One senior minister says it will be a ‘disaster’ for Australia’s almost 1 million Muslim population and in time spark an Islamophobic backlash,”

^ Like every non muslim is gonna gather their pitch fork and jerry cans in search for muslims, or minimum, ready to spew vile hatred from behind a keyboard.

Ah the old nothing happens in the real world right? Or if it does its not with pitchforks so its ok right?

'Here, The Muslim Vote — a hitherto unknown outfit that examines politicians’ voting records on issues notionally of interest to people of Islamic faith — has been beaten up into a nascent political party that Fatima Payman would be joining (inconveniently, she’s sitting as an independent) and has become the emblem of the dreaded sectarianism that is poised to destroy Australia’s social cohesion. '

^I've seen this movie before, seems the scared morons on the right (like someone in here) have this stupid belief the islam / muslim are gonna take over Straya, and we'll all live like muslims against our will , yeah how'd that pan out last time?

So you've seen these arguments used before in the media but you don't thin they are an issue because they haven't come true?

I could go on or just pasted the whole article, it's click bait opinionated bullsh*t intended to suck in offence seekers.

I think you get the picture.

Yes you think the problem is people being offended by racism, not racism itself

you think no racists are going to be stirred up by this because "only morons would believe it", its not true so why does it matter if they say it

all you have done, is dismiss an opinion you don't like with no evidence to back up why, because you don't like it

you've been insulting and belittling and done all these things you take great offence to elsewhere on this forum

Mud slinging? What claiming sensationalism is mud slinging?

Ok then, who *n cares then.

If whatever you wanna claim is dog whistling, only offence seeking d*ck heads care about it.

offense seeking dickheads would be another example of your mud slinging

really the hypocrisy on display after your little soap box efforts in another thread last week are quite something

you've gone full pretzel here well done

 

[Carringbush2010]

Western Sydney doesn't have religious folk? They don't have conservative views?

For example, Bankstown was amongst the highest No voting electorates on SSM, and is about ~ 1/3rd Islamic population.

I'm not too sure what is it you're trying to argue here? I never said 'white' or that it was Australia-wide.

No, I'm claiming you were alluding, using the 'irony' comment.

That's the impression you gave in that comment.

Also, I haven't claimed or alluded 'Western Sydney doesn't have religious folk? They don't have conservative views?'

I clearly stated that religion, any religion, in this country is a minority (gladly), ok it might be stronger in number in Western Sydney, so what?

 

[faible]

No, I'm claiming you were alluding, using the 'irony' comment.

That's the impression you gave in that comment.

Also, I haven't claimed or alluded 'Western Sydney doesn't have religious folk? They don't have conservative views?'

I clearly stated that religion, any religion, in this country is a minority (gladly), ok it might be stronger in number in Western Sydney, so what?

You're doing this thing where you seem to drastically misunderstand what's written, try to get all technical on something you've made up, and get confused when people don't go around in circles with you.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Think you have the wrong poster.

I haven't mentioned anything about 'genocide isn't a religious position' or 'Why do you think the media are pretending it’s because she is muslim?' Whatever TF that means.

You've gone full potatohead here again mate.

Fatima Payman crossed the floor because she is against genocide, and thinks Palestine should be recognised. This relates to her humanity, her ethics, not her religion.

Why do you think most of the media are currently having a brainfart about religion over this position?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

You've gone full potatohead here again mate.

Fatima Payman crossed the floor because she is against genocide, and thinks Palestine should be recognised. This relates to her humanity, her ethics, not her religion.

Why do you think most of the media are currently having a brainfart about religion over this position?

How is this not recognition?
------------------------------------------------
Australia's official engagement with the Palestinians is through the Palestinian Authority. The Australian Representative Office in Ramallah (ARO), established in September 2000, facilitates Australia's relationship with the Palestinian Authority, and enables Australia to engage on political, economic and social developments in the Occupied Palestinian Territories.

 

[Carringbush2010]

So what is it? What's the definition of this nothing burger?

The only definition to be concerned with is that it's nothing to be concerned with.

If one expends emotional effort to be concerned with what a right wing racist moron says has a pretty sad life and their priorities are all *d up.

You seem to think this is popular belief, not surprised.

I seem to remember you saying that we should listen to a bad faith actor for the 0.1% of their argument that could be important recently
in fact you spent pages arguing that we should not dismiss what is being said

it seems that you don't extend that to written opinion from journalists that you don't like

Yeah I'm responding to the article itself, not the journalist.

Seems you missed that, not surprised.

No not hyperbole its a common refrain

What so this comment is not sensationalism.

''Almost as one, and led by their supposedly elite political journalists, media companies have gathered, chanting, around a straw man called “Muslim Sectarianism” and proceeded to denounce it as an imminent threat to civilization''

Again, not surprised

You don't think anything ugly happened this week with the labor backgrounding and media focus not on Payman's position but her ethnicity and religion being the reason for her position?

Ok, it's ugly reporting from media, you think this doesn't happen all the time, you think it's something to hand wring about.

Ok then, you do you mate.

Here's the thing Carrie, this website and social media is full of people who believe this, they regurgitate it, they tell their friends its true

they talk about it at the pub

just because you don't think anyone would believe it doesn't make it the case, it also doesn't make it not dangerous

This is not surprising from you.

I was at the pub on Friday arvo, in Merriwa WA, the folk weren't talking about Senator Payman or any kulcha war bulls*t, they were talking about how their dog went at the vet, or the day at work.

Ah the old nothing happens in the real world right? Or if it does its not with pitchforks so its ok right?

If you wanna concern yourself with hyperbole media or rwnjs who have wild beliefs about 'infiltration' like it reflects Jan and Joe public (majority)

You do you then mate, go chat to Jan and Joe at the pub and raise your concerns, they'll just laugh at you.

So you've seen these arguments used before in the media but you don't thin they are an issue because they haven't come true?

No, because they probably won't happen

Yes you think the problem is people being offended by racism, not racism itself

Yeah I never mentioned or alluded this, again not surprised you conflate observing hyperbole as racism

Yes you think the problem is people being offended by racism, not racism itself

you think no racists are going to be stirred up by this because "only morons would believe it", its not true so why does it matter if they say it

all you have done, is dismiss an opinion you don't like with no evidence to back up why, because you don't like it

you've been insulting and belittling and done all these things you take great offence to elsewhere on this forum

Never said I don't like it, I've just observed it as hyperbole, if you think that's a 'don't like it' then good for you.

offense seeking dickheads would be another example of your mud slinging

really the hypocrisy on display after your little soap box efforts in another thread last week are quite something

you've gone full pretzel here well done

Oh dear, coming from you claiming I've gone full pretzel.

Your dystopian world view and emotional investment in media reporting is again, not surprising.

Have a nice day Gralin and try not to let media or the big bad Australian majority get you down. I won't be replying to you again on this topic for obvious reasons.

 

[Carringbush2010]

You've gone full potatohead here again mate.

Fatima Payman crossed the floor because she is against genocide, and thinks Palestine should be recognised. This relates to her humanity, her ethics, not her religion.

Why do you think most of the media are currently having a brainfart about religion over this position?

Huh?

Maybe you should ask the media, how the hell would I know?

I haven't claimed that her crossing the floor has anything to do with her religion.

Another own goal there ghosty. Potatohead lol, go find a mirror.

 

[Carringbush2010]

You're doing this thing where you seem to drastically misunderstand what's written,

You claimed 'irony' and 'conservative' in Western Sydney, on face value that seems you're alluding something.

If you wanna play riddler then go ahead, doesn't concern me.

try to get all technical on something you've made up, and get confused when people don't go around in circles with you.

Thanks Riddler.

 

[faible]

You claimed 'irony' and 'conservative' in Western Sydney, on face value that seems you're alluding something.

If you wanna play riddler then go ahead, doesn't concern me.

Thanks Riddler.

Again. You seem to have confused yourself.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Again. You seem to have confused yourself.

No I'm stating how I've interpreted your posts.

If you wanna explain them then do so, or don't, not fussed.

 

[carltonchelsea]

Great questioning from the interviewer, but at least she acknowleged Hamas are a terrorist organisation. I don't know why it's hard for her after acknowledging they are terrorists, to at least say Hamas should be dismantled, even if she qualified that she doesn't agree with Israel being the one who should dismantle them.

The Israeli government are a terrorist organisation!

 

[Jazny]

The Israeli government are a terrorist organisation!

Should the Israeli government be dismantled then?

 

[Chief]

I can't recall who was the weirdo on here flailing about over Islamic people in Europe and the call to prayer annoying everyone and whatnot - but I only realised the other day there is a mosque a few hundred metres from my house.

It's been there the whole time and I haven't once heard them chanting through a loudspeaker or whatever people imagine happens.

Not once has a horde of "military aged men" rushed forth from the premises to engulf the area in darkest Islam-y-ness or whatever.

I am relieved that all of these vague, shadowy horrors have turned out to be bullshit. Thank you, local mosque, for alleviating my fears through just doing your thing and not bothering anyone.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I can't recall who was the weirdo on here flailing about over Islamic people in Europe and the call to prayer annoying everyone and whatnot - but I only realised the other day there is a mosque a few hundred metres from my house.

It's been there the whole time and I haven't once heard them chanting through a loudspeaker or whatever people imagine happens.

Not once has a horde of "military aged men" rushed forth from the premises to engulf the area in darkest Islam-y-ness or whatever.

I am relieved that all of these vague, shadowy horrors have turned out to be bullshit. Thank you, local mosque, for alleviating my fears through just doing your thing and not bothering anyone.

They typically don't do call to prayer in Australia , because they don't want to annoy people.
I would have assumed its the same in Europe, but i've never been near a mosque ( that i've noticed ) in Europe.

I have heard it in Malaysia quite a bit, so it does happen in locations where its appropriate.
I've also heard Church Bells very loud in Sydney and London.
And drunks shouting "Aussie Aussie Aussie Oye Oye Oye " in Bali.

I think the highest thing on my list of annoyances was a Diesel Hammer pile driver next to my Hotel on one trip.

Ultimately its probably subject to the "Noise" laws in Australia, laws that are largely complaint driven.

Sydney's Lakemba mosque to broadcast Muslim call to prayer over loudspeakers

Australia’s largest mosque will begin broadcasting the Muslim call to prayer over its loudspeakers during Ramadan, a move that is hoped will bring the community together during the coronavirus pandemic.

www.sbs.com.au

Actually Vuvuzelas are probably more annoying than the call to prayer.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

In the area i live there were plans to build a mosque, and they asked people to petition their objections.

I objected on the grounds that the area was green wedge, and the plans were for a large light coloured block of concrete, in what was currently pasture.
I also objected on the grounds that the nearby intersections were already hard to navigate at busy times.
The mosque was not intended for the local community.

Ultimately the mayor came out to discuss the issue.
He was pretty reasonable, it was going through VCAT , and the Mayor ( who later skipped the country with some millions of our rate's ) explained how they were objecting on the grounds of planning issues, which was really the only way it could be blocked.
However , groups of loud right wing nuffies in flannel shirts had invaded the meeting , they liked yelling out racist bullshit at random and inappropriate times, despite not really having anything to add.
( Pretty sure most of them were not locals, some people knew the names of them, so probably high profile, i don't pay enough attention to them to know ). So in the end the meeting was a shambles.

One of the things about it was that they stated there would not be calls to prayer.

Mosque opposed by far-right political groups likely to be blocked

Saarban Islamic Trust partly blames Islamophobia after report recommending rejection on planning grounds

www.theguardian.com

I think they have now got approval after addressing many of the concerns.
( and amazingly , traffic lights have been installed and upgraded , in places where they were previously rejected ).

Sign the Petition

STOP THE NARRE WARREN NORTH MOSQUE.

www.change.org

https://www.jcba.com.au/projects/narre-warren-north-mosque

( architect impression , not a real picture ).

 

[ZEV]

Actually Vuvuzelas are probably more annoying than the call to prayer.

Nothing is worse than that ****wit at Carlton games with his drums

 

[Jazny]

In the area i live there were plans to build a mosque, and they asked people to petition their objections.

I objected on the grounds that the area was green wedge, and the plans were for a large light coloured block of concrete, in what was currently pasture.
I also objected on the grounds that the nearby intersections were already hard to navigate at busy times.
The mosque was not intended for the local community.

Ultimately the mayor came out to discuss the issue.
He was pretty reasonable, it was going through VCAT , and the Mayor ( who later skipped the country with some millions of our rate's ) explained how they were objecting on the grounds of planning issues, which was really the only way it could be blocked.
However , groups of loud right wing nuffies in flannel shirts had invaded the meeting , they liked yelling out racist bullshit at random and inappropriate times, despite not really having anything to add.
( Pretty sure most of them were not locals, some people knew the names of them, so probably high profile, i don't pay enough attention to them to know ). So in the end the meeting was a shambles.

One of the things about it was that they stated there would not be calls to prayer.

Mosque opposed by far-right political groups likely to be blocked

Saarban Islamic Trust partly blames Islamophobia after report recommending rejection on planning grounds

www.theguardian.com

I think they have now got approval after addressing many of the concerns.
( and amazingly , traffic lights have been installed and upgraded , in places where they were previously rejected ).

Sign the Petition

STOP THE NARRE WARREN NORTH MOSQUE.

www.change.org

https://www.jcba.com.au/projects/narre-warren-north-mosque

( architect impression , not a real picture ).

Looks nice.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Probably should have gone and got myself an education, the BBQ at the one i drive past always looks good.
Maybe next year.

Victorian Mosque Open Day 2024

On Sunday 25 February, mosques across Melbourne and regional Victoria will welcome all Victorians as part of this year’s Mosque Open Day.

www.vic.gov.au

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Looks nice.

I have to hand it to them, the original design was not like that, they went away and addressed the concerns.

 

[10571z]

Islam is arguably the least progressive religion.

Im not surprised many westerners who are consistently told to support the complete opposite of what some area’s of Islam condemn find it hard to be “tolerant”

 

[Jazny]

I have to hand it to them, the original design was not like that, they went away and addressed the concerns.

It must have been annoying having your issues with it taken over by far right people. It's happening even with our stadium and high performance issue in Tasmania
Some nasty things being said at the council meetings.

But opposing a mosque even legitimately would feel kind of bad even without people yelling racist stuff making everyone opposing it look bad.

 

[Gough]

Islam is arguably the least progressive religion.

Im not surprised many westerners who are consistently told to support the complete opposite of what some area’s of Islam condemn find it hard to be “tolerant”

They're no worse than the Christian nationalists in America these days which is tragic for the country. There's no moral high ground to be taken when American lawmakers are calling for accessing healthcare to be punishable by death.

 

[burge13]

It must have been annoying having your issues with it taken over by far right people. It's happening even with our stadium and high performance issue in Tasmania
Some nasty things being said at the council meetings.

But opposing a mosque even legitimately would feel kind of bad even without people yelling racist stuff making everyone opposing it look bad.

It shouldn't. We're not a muslim country in any way shape or form and we shouldn't feel bad for trying to keep it that way

Funny how people protest Qatar getting the world cup, LIV golf, Saudi boxing etc to score their virtue points but then also want the same religion here as a way to score more virtue points.

 

[Gough]

It shouldn't. We're not a muslim country in any way shape or form and we shouldn't feel bad for trying to keep it that way

Funny how people protest Qatar getting the world cup, LIV golf, Saudi boxing etc to score their virtue points but then also want the same religion here as a way to score more virtue points.

Muslims in Australia predate Federation. There's never been a church in Maree but there's been two mosques.

 

[10571z]

They're no worse than the Christian nationalists in America these days which is tragic for the country. There's no moral high ground to be taken when American lawmakers are calling for accessing healthcare to be punishable by death.

Finding the most extreme “Christian’s” compared to the norm of Muslim countries is not comparable.