Society/Culture Why I blame Islam for the fact it's raining today.... part 2

[Chief]

Reminder: This isn't the Israel/Hamas thread. Go to the Israel/Hamas thread if you want to talk about that. Thanks.

Mid East - Israel declare war after Hamas attack II

Part I: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/israel-declare-war-after-hamas-attack.1371828/page-47#post-81443295 Thread Rules: Alright. I recognise that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[ZEV]

It's been said that herding atheists is like herding cats. Atheism isn't a unifying belief.

I think of myself more as an antitheist than atheist anyway. Atheism is boring, simple, and doesn't motivate one in any direction.

I'm not sure what the antidote to religion is. Otherwise intelligent people believing dumb stuff like theism is much like conspiracy theorists believing 5G causes COVID. They didn't come to believe in sky pixies through logic and they're probably not going to be convinced out of it by logic.

Reality is difficult. People want to believe lies.

Some people we call "religious" just observe customs and traditions.

How is observing Ramadan any different to celebrating Christmas or Passover for others?

Some people do want to maintain links to their heritage and culture without being all in on genuine beliefs.

 

[Leeda]

Some people we call "religious" just observe customs and traditions.

How is observing Ramadan any different to celebrating Christmas or Passover for others?

Some people do want to maintain links to their heritage and culture without being all in on genuine beliefs.

But it need not chiv see off London to a brick....carry on

 

[ZEV]

But it need not chiv see off London to a brick....carry on

No idea what this means sorry but;

Alsalam Ealaykum Leeda

 

[Leeda]

No idea what this means sorry but;

Alsalam Ealaykum Leeda

Reverse parking is difficult

 

[ZEV]

Reverse parking is difficult

Just know where your back wheels are;

With reversing cameras, power steering and auto parking cars the world is in a great spot

 

[Leeda]

Just know where your back wheels are;

With reversing cameras, power steering and auto parking cars the world is in a great spot

Standby for another crash/bang...wallop

 

[Number37]

I'm saying Islam isn't capable of coexisting with secular democracy in its current form.

I would leave Muslims alone if they could keep their religion out of politics.

So you are saying that you want to exclude people that don't conform to your worldview.
Which is the accusation you level at Muslims.


Freedom of religion is one of the only rights that is expressly written in the Constitution.
Even our freedom of speech is a derivative right.

You could say that religion is far more protected in our Constitution than speech.

 

[Number37]

Wouldn't it be an ideology as opposed to a religion?

In form, sure.
In substance, it is no different to any other religion.

But how long before atheists start congregating?

 

[Total Power]

It's been said that herding atheists is like herding cats. Atheism isn't a unifying belief.

I think of myself more as an antitheist than atheist anyway. Atheism is boring, simple, and doesn't motivate one in any direction.

I'm not sure what the antidote to religion is. Otherwise intelligent people believing dumb stuff like theism is much like conspiracy theorists believing 5G causes COVID. They didn't come to believe in sky pixies through logic and they're probably not going to be convinced out of it by logic.

Reality is difficult. People want to believe lies.

True but young Muslims tend to be a bit more liberal:
2018

Young Muslims are significantly more likely to agree that homosexuality should be legal (28% of 18-24 year olds, 23% of 25-34 year olds)

https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default...earch-on-muslims-in-great-britain-ipsos_0.pdf

That is compared to the 18% amongst the general population as per poll in 2016.

It's a clear one way trend and follows the path of what we see with other immigrant populations where younger and third generation immigrants tend to steadily adopt views more aligned with the native country.

The irony is what tends to slow or prevent that is prejudiced social attitudes that keep subsequent generations oppressed or stigmatised or the older the get more orthodox values they adopt?

 

[the_interloper]

In form, sure.
In substance, it is no different to any other religion.

But how long before atheists start congregating?

They have already, have you seen the SRP board?

 

[Number37]

They have already, have you seen the SRP board?

99% of them are more anti-religion than atheist.

 

[the_interloper]

99% of them are more anti-religion than atheist.

Fair enough, pretty close together i reckon

 

[evolved2]

Some people we call "religious" just observe customs and traditions.

How is observing Ramadan any different to celebrating Christmas or Passover for others?

Some people do want to maintain links to their heritage and culture without being all in on genuine beliefs.

I've got no problem with that, and I observe parts of differing religious ceremonies on occasion.

I'm not opposed to belief on an individual level. Some of it is fairly innocuous until groups come together and find a voice within politics.

 

[evolved2]

In form, sure.
In substance, it is no different to any other religion.

But how long before atheists start congregating?

There's no consensus between atheists on any topic except for the lack of belief in deities.

Atheists are highly unlikely to organise on the basis of a shared lack of belief. It's like expecting people who don't believe in Bigfoot to organise together.

Your politics are probably closer to most SRP atheists than mine.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

I'm saying Islam isn't capable of coexisting with secular democracy in its current form.

I would leave Muslims alone if they could keep their religion out of politics.

Zionists are more dangerous, and most of them are Christian.

 

[Chief]

Zionists are more dangerous, and most of them are Christian.

When it is Muslims, or some other minority group, the expectation is that they will "integrate" and not exert political power.

When it is Zionists, this seems to be reversed.

 

[evolved2]

When it is Muslims, or some other minority group, the expectation is that they will "integrate" and not exert political power.

When it is Zionists, this seems to be reversed.

That's a sweeping generalisation. Other than some Jews and some Christians, who wants Zionist influence in politics?

 

[Chief]

That's a sweeping generalisation. Other than some Jews and some Christians, who wants Zionist influence in politics?

People quite rightly don't expect Jewish people to abandon their culture when they come to Australia (or are born here), and the media has plenty of time for Zionist messaging and influence on policy around Israel.

 

[Number37]

There's no consensus between atheists on any topic except for the lack of belief in deities.

Atheists are highly unlikely to organise on the basis of a shared lack of belief. It's like expecting people who don't believe in Bigfoot to organise together.

Your politics are probably closer to most SRP atheists than mine.

People who believe in Bigfoot are not a threat.
People who believe in deities supposedly are a threat.

It's only a matter of time before atheists organise into a congregation.
The atheist congregation of Bigfooty is just the beginning.

I can separate religion and politics, most of the atheists can't.

 

[Roylion]

It's only a matter of time before atheists organise into a congregation.

Attending a "congregation" of atheists would be a riveting affair.

"Hello, everyone. What are we discussing?"

"About the non-existence of gods."

"Fantastic, how is it going?”

"Well, we all agree we don’t believe in gods…"

[Awkward silence…]

"That's great. See you at the next meeting."

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Attending a "congregation" of atheists would be a riveting affair.

"Hello, everyone. What are we discussing?"

"About the non-existence of gods."

"Fantastic, how is it going?”

"Well, we all agree we don’t believe in gods…"

[Awkward silence…]

"That's great. See you at the next meeting."

It would go better if they had booze.

 

[RedStarUncle]

For atheism to turn into a religion, first someone will need to make a grift of it.

All organised religion is... after all... the result of turning some collection of beliefs into a grift.

 

[Total Power]

It's been said that herding atheists is like herding cats. Atheism isn't a unifying belief.

I think of myself more as an antitheist than atheist anyway. Atheism is boring, simple, and doesn't motivate one in any direction.

I'm not sure what the antidote to religion is. Otherwise intelligent people believing dumb stuff like theism is much like conspiracy theorists believing 5G causes COVID. They didn't come to believe in sky pixies through logic and they're probably not going to be convinced out of it by logic.

Reality is difficult. People want to believe lies.

How free are non-Muslims or atheists, gays, women and Islamic minorities like Hazaras, Sufis etc, living in Muslim majority nations, generally speaking? Or even self-identifying Muslims who do not follow Shari'a to the letter?

This sort of gets at the paradox of tolerance. To what extent do we tolerate intolerance? If adherents of an ideology, citing its core texts, insist on marginalizing and mistreating those who do not accept it, should we be tolerant of that ideology?

Suppose that the most extreme MAGA Republicans gain total control of the US, and are able to remake it into the Christian nation they've always wanted it to be.How much freedom do you think atheists would be permitted to have there?

Christian majority nations do have more freedoms, but it's not because they're Christian. It's because their governments are secular. You have secularism to thank for that.

Islam is just a pure shit evil religion, but i don't care as long as you keep those beliefs to yourself. But this never happens, except for a handful of Islamic countries the rest are all hardliners.

 

[evolved2]

People who believe in Bigfoot are not a threat.
People who believe in deities supposedly are a threat.

It's only a matter of time before atheists organise into a congregation.
The atheist congregation of Bigfooty is just the beginning.

I can separate religion and politics, most of the atheists can't.

Social media attracts people with the most extreme religious and political perspectives. I truly think some of the extreme left perspectives here are as dangerous as Pauline Hanson, and yet the left has no political strength in Australia. Don't confuse the SRP with the real world - atheists pose no political threat.

Roylion is right about atheists congregating. It's been tried before and the meetings don't last because there's no unifying values or interests, just a bunch of people who don't have imaginary friends.

 

[evolved2]

How free are non-Muslims or atheists, gays, women and Islamic minorities like Hazaras, Sufis etc, living in Muslim majority nations, generally speaking? Or even self-identifying Muslims who do not follow Shari'a to the letter?

This sort of gets at the paradox of tolerance. To what extent do we tolerate intolerance? If adherents of an ideology, citing its core texts, insist on marginalizing and mistreating those who do not accept it, should we be tolerant of that ideology?

Suppose that the most extreme MAGA Republicans gain total control of the US, and are able to remake it into the Christian nation they've always wanted it to be.How much freedom do you think atheists would be permitted to have there?

Christian majority nations do have more freedoms, but it's not because they're Christian. It's because their governments are secular. You have secularism to thank for that.

Islam is just a pure shit evil religion, but i don't care as long as you keep those beliefs to yourself. But this never happens, except for a handful of Islamic countries the rest are all hardliners.

I don't know any atheists that push state atheism either. They all push secularism.

I think we do need to get past the idea that religious beliefs deserve respect, and that they're all equal. We can see across the globe that Islam is not benign.